Lansdowne Road Redevelopment Thread

[jbyrne]

The massive Aviva is incredibly tacky and really cheapens what should be a proud national stadium. Other stadiums sell naming rights (well not other national stadiums, but we all expected the FAI to stoop to that) without whoring out the ground the way they are.

another pathetic cheap shot at the FAI.
the stade de france has advertising on the steps, for example, which can actually still be seen when the stadium is full. the aviva wording wont be seen when the stadium is full. the €40m that the deal is worth is helping pay for the stadium but sure hey lets give it back, whats €40m worth to Irish sport anyway?

[Jicked]

When did I say anything about giving back the €40m? I'm just saying that the FAI take absolutely every penny going instead of thinking long-term about anything, at all. Getting Aviva off the seats won't sell 10,000 vantage club tickets over night. But if they stop taking the cheapest, stingiest possible option at every single juncture they might be able to shake-off the amateurish, incompetent tag they have, which would help the game here. Instead they desperately rush for every last cent possible instead of looking long term about anything. Take the rebranding of the League of Ireland. Great to get a title sponsor onboard, absolutely. Would have been better off calling it Airtricity League of Ireland (instead of Airtricity League), if you want to talk about going forward and having a recognisable image/brand for football in this country. That wouldn't have meant turning down their cash, but it might have meant taking €100,000 instead of €120,000.

You don't think Arsenal could have done with the extra wedge when building the Emirates (http://images.teamtalk.com/08/07/800x600/Arsenal--Emirates-Stadium-London-General_1055266.jpg), Bayern with the Allianz Arena (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1080/533320492_c4129fffe4_o.jpg) or even at the Busch Stadium (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2829016981_d7ea5a692d.jpg?v=1220588668) at the spiritual home of corporate sponsorship, the USA.

[elroy]

Who cares what painted on the seats?!? Who cares if the naming rights of the stadium were sold to an insurance MNC. We should be damn happy that we have a state of the art stadium perfect for our sport, yes ideally we would all like extra capacity but its a damn sight better than anything we had in the past.
The ironic thing is that if the naming rights werent sold, you'd have people criticising the FAI for being commercially inept in not maximising revenue from the place.

[Dodge]

When did I say anything about giving back the €40m? I'm just saying that the FAI take absolutely every penny going instead of thinking long-term about anything, at all. Getting Aviva off the seats won't sell 10,000 vantage club tickets over night. But if they stop taking the cheapest, stingiest possible option at every single juncture they might be able to shake-off the amateurish, incompetent tag they have, which would help the game here
Again, it isn't solely their decision.

[Duggie]

who cares what the stadium is called. it could be called potbelly stadium for all i care. all i care about is supporting ireland and seeing us win games.

[eaststand85]

Should paint a big sign on the outside:

WELCOME TO THE PALLINDROME

Very good! :D

[osarusan]

When did I say anything about giving back the €40m? I'm just saying that the FAI take absolutely every penny going instead of thinking long-term about anything, at all. Getting Aviva off the seats won't sell 10,000 vantage club tickets over night. But if they stop taking the cheapest, stingiest possible option at every single juncture they might be able to shake-off the amateurish, incompetent tag they have, which would help the game here. Instead they desperately rush for every last cent possible instead of looking long term about anything.

How is it the cheapest stingiest option to get the seats to spell out Aviva? What difference does it make? What long-term thinking have they not displayed by putting the seats that way?

If and when Aviva sponsorship ends, the seats are easily replaced.

I take your point about the poor decision to get rid of "league of Ireland", but I don't see how this is connected to that.

[kev mcq]

You don't think Arsenal could have done with the extra wedge when building the Emirates (http://images.teamtalk.com/08/07/800x600/Arsenal--Emirates-Stadium-London-General_1055266.jpg), Bayern with the Allianz Arena (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1080/533320492_c4129fffe4_o.jpg) or even at the Busch Stadium (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2829016981_d7ea5a692d.jpg?v=1220588668) at the spiritual home of corporate sponsorship, the USA.

Well in the Allianz arena, for all Bayern games, there is a section of the crowd wearing white arranged to spell out the T-Mobile symbol. Damn Germans whoring themselves out to mobile phone companies.

[SUB of the day]

The old Lansdowne end looks fantastic, presumably this will be the location of choice for singing section, should be some sight when full.

[Jicked]

How is it the cheapest stingiest option to get the seats to spell out Aviva? What difference does it make? What long-term thinking have they not displayed by putting the seats that way?

If and when Aviva sponsorship ends, the seats are easily replaced.

I take your point about the poor decision to get rid of "league of Ireland", but I don't see how this is connected to that.

It's just the attitude the FAI have towards everything to do with the stadium. Take the fixture fiasco, Delaney was willing to gamble our chances of qualifying so not to risk getting a crowd of 48,000 or so for Andorra if we had to play them towards the end of the group when the novelty factor had worn off. Thats instead of looking long term and realising if we qualified for 2012 they'll shift a whole load of vantage club tickets, and reinvigorate the whole international scene back to the glory days of before. Here they've got one of the very best stadiums in Europe and instead of treating it like a bloody palace they're going to start with stuff like this. What could be run like and have the reputation of a stadium like the Emirates, may well end up as our version of the Reebok Stadium. I simply wouldn't trust these guys an inch to run the stadium in a competent way.

And dodge I know they're obviously in partnership with the IRFU, but things like this have the grubby fingerprints of the FAI all over it (a stadium's version of the eircom blob) , and Aviva would probably be more interested in the FAI's events then the IRFU's. I'd certainly think hosting the Europa League final at Lansdowne would be a bigger draw for sponsorship then say the Heinken Cup Final which they're bidding for to host in the same week.

[jbyrne]

It's just the attitude the FAI have towards everything to do with the stadium. Take the fixture fiasco, Delaney was willing to gamble our chances of qualifying so not to risk getting a crowd of 48,000 or so for Andorra if we had to play them towards the end of the group when the novelty factor had worn off. Thats instead of looking long term and realising if we qualified for 2012 they'll shift a whole load of vantage club tickets, and reinvigorate the whole international scene back to the glory days of before. Here they've got one of the very best stadiums in Europe and instead of treating it like a bloody palace they're going to start with stuff like this. What could be run like and have the reputation of a stadium like the Emirates, may well end up as our version of the Reebok Stadium. I simply wouldn't trust these guys an inch to run the stadium in a competent way.

And dodge I know they're obviously in partnership with the IRFU, but things like this have the grubby fingerprints of the FAI all over it (a stadium's version of the eircom blob) , and Aviva would probably be more interested in the FAI's events then the IRFU's. I'd certainly think hosting the Europa League final at Lansdowne would be a bigger draw for sponsorship then say the Heinken Cup Final which they're bidding for to host in the same week.

the FAI will fill the stadium no matter who they are playing for the next number of years.
trap would have approved any draft fixture list before delaney and co attended the fixtures meeting. we still have to play everyone home and away and the order counts for little in my opinion.
the emirates is usually half empty with 10 mins to go in a match, the aviva wont have this problem.
a management company is running the stadium, not the fai or irfu.
rugby in this country currently has a far higher profile than our football team. people all over the world watch the 6N for example but i doubt too many neutrals watch our football team. avivas exposure through rugby will be far higher on an ongoing basis

there is zero substance to any of your points

[Dodge]

rugby in this country currently has a far higher profile than our football team. people all over the world watch the 6N for example but i doubt too many neutrals watch our football team. avivas exposure through rugby will be far higher on an ongoing basis


If we're talking world wide, our football team gets far more exposure. not even comparable to be honest

[endabob1]

If we're talking world wide, our football team gets far more exposure. not even comparable to be honest

Haven't qualified for anything in 8 years, I'd question that tbh. I would reckon outside of the UK & Ireland you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could name more than 2 of our players

[Dodge]

Haven't qualified for anything in 8 years, I'd question that tbh. I would reckon outside of the UK & Ireland you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could name more than 2 of our players
Doesn't matter. We've still played the likes of France, Italy etc etc in the ground and our games are always included in weekly wrap ups. The name "Aviva Stadium" will be used far, far more in relation to football (the Fance home game was carried by 20+ international broadcastors)

[endabob1]

France game aside, we're second division in football terms. The reason that was carried by so many is because there were 4 competitive games that night. Maybe it's because I live in a Rugby watching country so i see a lot more of Ireland in rugby, internationals, Heineken Cup etc...

[Declanus]

When the stadium does open its up to us the fans to give it character and put it on the map not the FAI and their corporate image. Talking to some rugby heads and they do see themselves as the senior partner in Lansdowne.

[jbyrne]

If we're talking world wide, our football team gets far more exposure. not even comparable to be honest

realistically how many people outside of Ireland watch our football team play? the 6N is shown in full in countless countries not just the scores on a wrap-up programme

[Dodge]

realistically how many people outside of Ireland watch our football team play? the 6N is shown in full in countless countries not just the scores on a wrap-up programme

No, its not. Nobody outside the 10 test nations cares about rugby, and very few people would watch the games in Europe, where Aviva are already an established brand name. There's no question that the Football side wa the major attraction to them. Even "second division" national footbal sides gets more press, TV, "new" media coverage than rugby in their core markets

We're getting way off point here btw.

[boovidge]

I would say more people around the world have heard of Robbie Keane than Brian O'Driscoll.

[elroy]

I was in Rome recently on a 6N wkd and a home game at that. You barely would have known the game was on, very little publicly bar the few Scots that were about the place. And this is a test nation where rugby is supposedly an up and coming spot. However, several people I spoke to, when I mentioned I was from Ireland, they immediately referred to how we should be in the WC this year, Trappatoni etc etc. Look at the viewing figures for the playoffs, we were the most viewed game, blew the ratings away in ireland alone. The game was also shown live on terrestial tv in countries like Germany.

Rugby has had a higher profile in the country in recent years, why, success thats why!!! The rugby dream has dwindled some what this year, despite a far less competitive sport than football, the realisation has come this year that the team have reached their limit. In a year when Ireland won the 6N, it still was not the most viewed sporting event for the year, guess what was!!!
When Ireland won the 6N, they managed to fill one street in Dublin, compare this to the way the country was gripped in any of our 3 WC's. NO other sports captures the full attention of the nation like football does! The evidence is clear to support this.

Anyways back to topic, very happy to share LR with the rugby lads, once they dont wreck the pitch immediately before any of our games. The stadium does look class, although I do feel the havelock square end does take away from the finished product.

[Jicked]

realistically how many people outside of Ireland watch our football team play? the 6N is shown in full in countless countries not just the scores on a wrap-up programme

Having lived in Australia and having family in South Africa I can assure you coverage of the Six Nations in the southern hemisphere is almost non-existent. Scores of individual games rarely will be published in newspapers, with a usually just a small paragraph at the end of the tournament briefly mentioning who won the lot.

[Dodge]

'tis the same with Heineken Cp. Rugby supporting mate in Australia thought they'd be going nuts with Rocky Elso winning it for Leinster last year. not a mention of it (and he's into the sport)

[Kingdom]

Rugby Union is something like 4th most popular sport in Australia. Rugby League, Aussie Rules, Cricket then Union, football not too far off either.

[endabob1]

Having lived in Australia and having family in South Africa I can assure you coverage of the Six Nations in the southern hemisphere is almost non-existent. Scores of individual games rarely will be published in newspapers, with a usually just a small paragraph at the end of the tournament briefly mentioning who won the lot.

Nonsense. I live in cape Town, every 6 Nations game is carried live here, John Robbie (ex Ireland Scrum Half) is one of the Studio analysts and while they will focus on the Super 14 when there's a clash,the 6N gets plenty of coverage. I haven't missed an Irish Rugby international on tv here in 2 years, can't say anything like the same for the football where I've had to rely on dodgy internet feeds for most of the games.

As it happens I also lived in Oz for a bit and it depends where you are, Melbourne ignores rugby (or it did in the past, might change when they join the Super 15) where as in Brisbane, Canberra & Sydney there's plenty of coverage.

[SkStu]

Nonsense. I live in cape Town, every 6 Nations game is carried live here, John Robbie (ex Ireland Scrum Half) is one of the Studio analysts and while they will focus on the Super 14 when there's a clash,the 6N gets plenty of coverage. I haven't missed an Irish Rugby international on tv here in 2 years, can't say anything like the same for the football where I've had to rely on dodgy internet feeds for most of the games.

As it happens I also lived in Oz for a bit and it depends where you are, Melbourne ignores rugby (or it did in the past, might change when they join the Super 15) where as in Brisbane, Canberra & Sydney there's plenty of coverage.

thanks for confirming as i thought that was the case - ive lost count of the number of Ireland games i watched that were streamed via a Sth African network. I started using i-Setanta this year though.

[Jicked]

Nonsense. I live in cape Town, every 6 Nations game is carried live here, John Robbie (ex Ireland Scrum Half) is one of the Studio analysts and while they will focus on the Super 14 when there's a clash,the 6N gets plenty of coverage. I haven't missed an Irish Rugby international on tv here in 2 years, can't say anything like the same for the football where I've had to rely on dodgy internet feeds for most of the games.

As it happens I also lived in Oz for a bit and it depends where you are, Melbourne ignores rugby (or it did in the past, might change when they join the Super 15) where as in Brisbane, Canberra & Sydney there's plenty of coverage.

fair enough on the S African front, I must have been misinformed though I'm surprised by that. There certainly isn't plenty of coverage in Brisbane, I remember little on an national level too. In fact I'd compare the coverage of 6N in Australia to coverage of the Super 14/15 here.

[Stuttgart88]

Was at home for Easter and thought the stadium looked amazing whilst walking Dun Laoghaire pier. Can't wait to attend a game there.

[atfconline]

ESPN covered the Six Nations in Oz this year, and One showed the winter internationals.

I think it was Setanta who showed the two WCQ's against France live.

[endabob1]

fair enough on the S African front, I must have been misinformed though I'm surprised by that. There certainly isn't plenty of coverage in Brisbane, I remember little on an national level too. In fact I'd compare the coverage of 6N in Australia to coverage of the Super 14/15 here.

Was talking to a mate last night, home on holiday from Brisbane and he kinda backs up your point actually, says there's plenty of coverage but it's so Oz focussed that the rest of the world only exist if they're playing Australia (or an Australian side) or if they happen to have a couple of good ol' Ozzie boys in their side.

[kev mcq]

Any chance of getting this thread back on topic?

[OneRedArmy]

Any chance of getting this thread back on topic?Stadium looks bloody brilliant looking out my office window in the afternoon sunshine. The glass exterior really shines in the sunlight. Truly space age.

Can't wait to get inside and see it.

[elroy]

Hope they do a good job on the pitch and it does end up a mess like the one at Wembley.

[gspain]

I did the tour yesterday. Pitch is already down - at least half of it and you could see grass being watered.

The Wembley problems were mentioned and the line was it is down to poor ventilation. That has already been considered and won't be a problem for the Aviva. Time will tell.

Hard to believe it will be ready shortly although the work required is mainly cosmetic I suppose.

The stadium looks fantastic. Really can't wait until it opens.

[endabob1]

I did the tour yesterday. Pitch is already down - at least half of it and you could see grass being watered.

The Wembley problems were mentioned and the line was it is down to poor ventilation. That has already been considered and won't be a problem for the Aviva. Time will tell.

Hard to believe it will be ready shortly although the work required is mainly cosmetic I suppose.

The stadium looks fantastic. Really can't wait until it opens.

LR Sounds great, I would love to be able to go and hopefully I'll time my next visit home with a game so that I can experience it in all its glory.
I really don't get the Wembley pitch thing, surely they looked at other all enclosed stadiums to see how they do it, there doesn't appear to be any problems with the Pitch in Cardiff and that's a similar size and design.

[jbyrne]

LR Sounds great, I would love to be able to go and hopefully I'll time my next visit home with a game so that I can experience it in all its glory.
I really don't get the Wembley pitch thing, surely they looked at other all enclosed stadiums to see how they do it, there doesn't appear to be any problems with the Pitch in Cardiff and that's a similar size and design.

actually there is i am afraid. they have to change it two or three times a year. was explained to me once, something to do with condensation constantly forming on the pitch with not enough air circulating to get rid of it

[tetsujin1979]

Photo of the grass as it is today on twitter: http://twitpic.com/1fiasm

[Kingdom]

A couple of things. Walking down Grand Canal St or sitting on the DART, the first time you see it, it makes you feel proud as punch. Having seen the exterior up close and a few pics of the inside, it really is a great stadium, there's nothing to whinge about.

I'd have a question though about the outside. The glass panels seem to be open sometimes when I'm going past, is it the case thats for cleaning, or is it for ventilation or something?

I'd be resigning myself to missing out having got the dreaded letter from the FAI last November, but a friend has come up trumps and I'm thrilled. Can't wait now!

Gary, what's the story with the Tour, did you go through the site itself or the FAI? Would love to do that!

[gspain]

A couple of things. Walking down Grand Canal St or sitting on the DART, the first time you see it, it makes you feel proud as punch. Having seen the exterior up close and a few pics of the inside, it really is a great stadium, there's nothing to whinge about.

I'd have a question though about the outside. The glass panels seem to be open sometimes when I'm going past, is it the case thats for cleaning, or is it for ventilation or something?

I'd be resigning myself to missing out having got the dreaded letter from the FAI last November, but a friend has come up trumps and I'm thrilled. Can't wait now!

Gary, what's the story with the Tour, did you go through the site itself or the FAI? Would love to do that!

It is ventilation for the pitch I believe. An explanation was given as to how the pitch is ventilated to prevent the problems at Wembley. It sounded good to me but I
know little about the topic. They also use lots of green energy and recycle rain water and even the urinals.

I got invited on the tour by a friend of mine who was doing it. He is sharing 2 Vantage Club tickets with 3 others. We did get the sales pitch which is actually
pretty good but as I have block bookings I won't be buying. It is described as being 100 euro a month as opposed to 12K which sounds much better.

I'm sure if you ring up and ask about the Vantage Club you'll be offered a tour.

[Kingdom]

There was a programme on Nationwide about it I think. The green energy bit I've heard previously, no excuse for it not being done these days. The rain water idea for urinals and watering the pitch makes plenty of sense.

[geysir]

First game fixed for July 31st, though it sounds more like a handbags kickabout.
'Contrary to reports the composite provincial rugby match between Leinster/Ulster and Munster/Connacht will mark the opening of the new Aviva Stadium on Saturday, July 31st this year as opposed to August 7th.'

[Junior]

I heard there was going to be a LOI game staged there (possibly Rovers vs Bohs?) prior to the Argentina game as a minit trial, may be in May sometime...is this the case?

[DeNiro]

Papers a few weeks ago had it that a LOI XI would play Man Utd. Anyone else hear that?

[endabob1]

I thought they would have to have staggered events with increasing attendances in order to satisfy the safety certificate requirements, they did with Wembley & here in Cape Town they've been ramping up from 20k in the first trial run back in Jan

[jbyrne]

I heard there was going to be a LOI game staged there (possibly Rovers vs Bohs?) prior to the Argentina game as a minit trial, may be in May sometime...is this the case?

i doubt it. the stadium is only due to be handed over late may. the first match is the combined provinces rugby match in early august followed by the Argentina match

[Dodge]

I heard there was going to be a LOI game staged there (possibly Rovers vs Bohs?) prior to the Argentina game as a minit trial, may be in May sometime...is this the case?

There were strong rumours of a LOI game, or possibly even a double header to "trial" the stadium in August. Bohs/Rovers was mentioned

[gspain]

Paul Lennon ran with the Man Utd story in the Star. He is normally spot on and I understand he is in this case too albeit the game is not confirmed so there may be a hitch.

There most likely will be a smaller capacity game before the rugby on July 31st but I doubt if it will be Rovers v Bohs. It may of course be a rugby match or maybe have a football
and a rugby match on different dates.

[tetsujin1979]

Vincent Hogan article in today's Independent about the new stadium: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/vincent-hogan/vincent-hogan-aviva-the-most-expensive-second-home-in-history-2143079.html
I hadn't heard this before, can anyone confirm or deny?

The IRFU and FAI are, of course, equal tenants here, but -- in 50 years' time (considered the natural life-span of a stadium) -- the site reverts to exclusive rugby ownership.

[ofjames]

my understanding of the situation is as follows:

Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company owns the stadium building.

Government, FAI and IRFU each hold a 33.33% shareholding in this company.

However, IRFU retain legal title over the land on which the stadium is built. They probably leased the land to LRSDC on a 50 year lease. I think the fact they provided the land reduced the cash contribution they had to make towards the construction costs.

[elroy]

Two comments in that article jump out at me:

"Had Croke Park opened its doors in 2001, the Aviva would almost certainly never have been built."

Very true, if Bertie hadnt meddled and given the GAA a nice gift, there is a good chance football and rugby wouldve been played in croker indefinitely. While in theory it might have worked well, as a matchday experience I think LR will be far superior for football, the obvious downside being the 20k+ reduction in available seats.

"Of course, the GAA argued that they had made Croke Park available at a discount price, but maybe they were wildly over-pricing it to begin with. "

This is the obvious disadvantage of croker being the only show in town. If LR wasnt built the FAI/IRFU would have been at the mercy of the GAA who could charge a premium rent as no viable alternative would exist. In fact IIRC the profits to the FAI from a game in the LR will at least be in line with a full house in Croker due to the absence of rent costs and despite the reduction in capacity.

[Dodge]

For the record I think a "friendly" involving any foreign club side (just in case anyone thinks I'm EPL bashing) would be a disgraceful way to open the stadium (even if for its trial run)