Lansdowne Road Redevelopment Thread

[jbyrne]

I really dont like the Havelock square end though, really takes from the stadium imo. That element is not a great piece of design imo. Whats the story with this country and 3/4 finished stadia.

its actually a very good piece of design given the site constraints. 3,000 seats (all that was ever possible at that end before) and a fully enclosed stadium. i think its a great job

[Lionel Ritchie]

Okay ...just back it up a little for me.

Now -what's a stadium?

:-)

[EastTerracer]

Does anyone have a download of "On Hallowed Ground" which was shown on RTE last week? This snippet from today's Irish Times makes it sound interesting:

JASON McATEER admitted he doesn’t like change, that he’s infinitely happier when things stay just as they always were. Like Lansdowne Road.
“It was a kip, but it was home,” he said wistfully, as he was driven towards Ballsbridge for his first glimpse of the new stadium. His eyes widened, his jaw plummeted. “It looks like, eh, a greenhouse.”

http://www.rte.ie/tv/programmes/on_hallowed_ground.html
For those in Ireland the programme seems to be available on the RTE Player but not for those of us outside the country. Any link to a download would be greatly appreciated.

[DannyInvincible]

For anyone interested, this is where you can get it on the RTÉ Player for the meantime: http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1072801

I wonder would it work through a proxy server for those outside Ireland...

[Jicked]

its actually a very good piece of design given the site constraints. 3,000 seats (all that was ever possible at that end before) and a fully enclosed stadium. i think its a great job

Did the Havelock Sq end only ever fit 3,000 bucket seats? I thought it looked like more? Still, I'm happy with the design of the stadium, and having the small away fan contingent at the Havelock end is at least one little reminder of the old place which I adored. Pity they couldn't find room for the Wanderers clubhouse somewhere though!

[strangeirish]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/images/2010/0514/254165_1.jpg?ts=1274111375

All that money and no feckin' goalposts! Typical Irish...:D

[Duggie]

what is it with us and our reluctance to have a (fullycompleted)4 sided stadium in ireland......looks good in fairness. in that pic you would almost think the small stand is on the side of the pitch not behind the goal.

[tetsujin1979]

time lapse video of the stadium's construction
9yFmK1yTu6U

[MuckaTucka]

Do all of the sides spell out AVIVA or does any side spell out Ireland?

[DannyInvincible]

what is it with us and our reluctance to have a (fullycompleted)4 sided stadium in ireland......looks good in fairness. in that pic you would almost think the small stand is on the side of the pitch not behind the goal.

I don't think it's exactly fair to describe it as a "reluctance". It's simply indicative of the reality, or quagmire even, that is urban planning. I'm sure if it was possible to have three tiers all the way round, there would be three tiers all the way round. There's little that can be done about a row of private properties tightly located behind one end. You can't exactly expect the state to intervene and turf people out of their homes in the "national interest" or whatever. As fantastic it is to have it, it is only a football stadium, after all.

Still, as it is, I think it's quite charming in its uniqueness. Without sounding like I'm trying to engage in some romantic personification of a sports stadium, I think the design adds a certain amount of character of which, say, the Emirates Stadium in London could never boast. It also tells its own story about the locality, I suppose. It's the same for Croke Park, although I don't think Croke Park is quite as graceful.

[Schumi]

Did the Havelock Sq end only ever fit 3,000 bucket seats? I thought it looked like more?There were 22,000 permanent seats and the capacity for qualifiers was about 35,000. That leaves 13,000 bucket seats between the East, South and North terraces. The North one was the smallest of the three so 3,000 sounds about right.

[DannyInvincible]

Do all of the sides spell out AVIVA or does any side spell out Ireland?

You must be joking. Don't you know this is the FAI/Aviva's shining beacon first and foremost? Irish sport merely finds itself being dragged along as a passenger. ;)

[MuckaTucka]

Still, as it is, I think it's quite charming in its uniqueness. Without sounding like I'm trying to engage in some romantic personification of a sports stadium, I think the design adds a certain amount of character of which, say, the Emirates Stadium in London could never boast. It also tells its own story about the locality, I suppose. It's the same for Croke Park, although I don't think Croke Park is quite as graceful.

It's a fair point you make, however the story behind the three sides of Croke Park has a lot more history than the three sides of the Aviva owing to not having enough money to buy people's property.

Is it a uniquely Irish thing the way there are only three sides? That can be looked at as a positive or a negative depending on how you feel about the country I suppose.
It's a lovely design though, I'm glad they didn't try to be conservative.

[MuckaTucka]

You must be joking. Don't you know this is the FAI/Aviva's shining beacon first and foremost? Irish sport merely finds itself being dragged along as a passenger. ;)

Wasn't joking but wasn't hopeful that it did. It's a sad state of affairs really.
William Petty-FitzMaurice, 1st Marquess of Lansdowne would be spinning in his grave.

[DannyInvincible]

It's a fair point you make, however the story behind the three sides of Croke Park has a lot more history than the three sides of the Aviva owing to not having enough money to buy people's property.

It'll be an historic symbol for years to come of this generation's desperate transition from Celtic Tiger prosperity into post-boom recession and hardship. Or something. :P


Is it a uniquely Irish thing the way there are only three sides? That can be looked at as a positive or a negative depending on how you feel about the country I suppose.
It's a lovely design though, I'm glad they didn't try to be conservative.

It's certainly uncommon, but not strictly unique, I suppose. I recall during Euro 2004 in Portugal, there were one or two stadiums that had two or three tiers on three sides and just a solitary tier at one end behind the goals. In fact, wasn't there one utterly bizarre stadium that had no stand at all behind one of its goals, but rather some sort of alien rocky landscape?

[elroy]

I would like to think (ungrateful so and sos that we are that we are not happy with what does look a fantastic stadium for the most part) that in a few years the possibility of extending/redeveloping that end may be considered. Perhaps a time when the debt balance isnt as high as it currently is.

Nonetheless if it were a perfectly round, all in proportion, 50k seater stadia im sure we would still have compliants.

[DannyInvincible]

Wasn't joking but wasn't hopeful that it did. It's a sad state of affairs really.
William Petty-FitzMaurice, 1st Marquess of Lansdowne would be spinning in his grave.

I was being slightly ironic in my reply, but you're entirely right not to be joking. Having "Aviva" plastered all over the stadium isn't something of which I'm particularly fond either. It is sad that artefacts of our historical and cultural experience - which my idealist senses expect should be for everyone to share - can be sold off to the highest bidder nowadays in order to make a quick buck.

[DannyInvincible]

Just on other peculiarly-designed stadia, this is the Portuguese one I was talking about:

http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/takebou/img_0215.jpg

It's the Estádio Municipal de Braga. I thought it had three stands around the pitch and a rocky backdrop behind one end for some reason, but it appears that it only has two stands along pitch-side with rocky terrain enclosing the ground at both ends behind the goals.

The other one I'd been thinking of was Porto's Estádio do Dragão:

http://www.football-pictures.net/data/media/307/Estdio_do_Drago_Jpg.jpg

However, it appears that it is also symmetrical to the extent that both ends behind the goals are just one tier in height.

[MuckaTucka]

I was being slightly ironic in my reply, but you're entirely right not to be joking. Having "Aviva" plastered all over the stadium isn't something of which I'm particularly fond either. It is sad that artefacts of our historical and cultural experience - which my idealist senses expect should be for everyone to share - can be sold off to the highest bidder nowadays in order to make a quick buck.

Exactly. I actually presumed that the stadium would have some link to Ireland in it apart from the green seats. Naming rights needn't extend to not having even Ireland printed on the seats.
It's really something you take for granted until the FAI continue to take liberties and finally make people sit up and take note. It just keeps getting better, Manchester United, Bohs having to move games, Limerick not allowed to play Barca.

By the way, that Braga stadium looks fantastic.

[DannyInvincible]

Some other odd designs I've encountered...

'La Bombonera', where Boca Juniors play their home games:

http://files.nireblog.com/blogs3/mantecaaltecho/files/la_bombonera_1.jpg

The Autostade in Montréal (now demolished):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2001/2389966502_db0120677d_o.png

Norrporten Arena in Sundsvall, Sweden:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/NorrportenArena.jpg/800px-NorrportenArena.jpg

It's quite small, though, with a capacity of only 8,000.

Also, check out the Mmabatho Stadium in Mafikeng, South Africa. It's a textbook example of how a stadium probably ought not to look.

So, I think it's safe to assume, we have quite a conventional stadium for ourselves by relative standards, ha.

[DannyInvincible]

This is the South African one I was talking about.

http://www.fussballtempel.net/Odi.jpg

http://i14.tinypic.com/4pp2xjn.jpg

Unfortunately, it won't be seeing any World Cup action this year...

[DannyInvincible]

I don't exactly want to derail the thread so this will be the last odd one I post. It's the Bazeilles Municipal in France and I believe it's nigh on impossible to get a ticket for the big games, such is the compact design.

http://france.stades.free.fr/SITE/BIZARRES_STADES/TRIBUNES/bazeilles_municipaltravaux1.JPG

[tetsujin1979]

Just on other peculiarly-designed stadia, this is the Portuguese one I was talking about:

It's the Estádio Municipal de Braga. I thought it had three stands around the pitch and a rocky backdrop behind one end for some reason, but it appears that it only has two stands along pitch-side with rocky terrain enclosing the ground at both ends behind the goals.
They built that for Euro 2004, it's built into an unused quarry

[DannyInvincible]

They built that for Euro 2004, it's built into an unused quarry

Hadn't been aware of that. That's pretty cool. Who would have thought an unused quarry could be converted into something so spectacular?

[osarusan]

. Who would have thought an unused quarry could be converted into something so spectacular?
The architect.

[Crosby87]

All in all I think it will be a tough place for teams to come in and play.

[EastTerracer]

A little off topic but found the following clips on the Pathe film website - the 1949 game in Goodison and the 1964 game in Dalymount (very different to the new Lansdowne Road.....


http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=27131


http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=43285

[jbyrne]

Is it a uniquely Irish thing the way there are only three sides?

although not affected to the same extent as lansdowne, the millenium stadium in cardiff is restricted at one end due to the presence of the old Cardiff rugby club.

only building on a green field site can gaurantee a proper four sided stadium. would far rather the stadium we have in a decent part of town for atmosphere etc than having to go to the middle of nowhere where there are no pre / post match facilities etc for our stadium (eg abbotstown)

[Razors left peg]

Is the 3 sides and one small piece at the end of the stadium a metaphor for the 3 provences of the country and the 4th one up north thats not fully all ours at the moment but we hope some day we might be able to take it over and make the country bigger :)

[tetsujin1979]

Aviva are recording a short film in the stadium for advertising purposes, and are looking for extras to fill in for crowd scenes on thursday 27th, PM me for details if you're interested

[OwlsFan]

My first game at it. Pity that at one end there is only a small number of seats as it does take away from the overall effect of the stadium but I am aware of the reasons for this.

Organisation wasn't great as it took me a while to find out exactly where entrance F was - perhaps that was just me not reading the instructions. Huge queues for the loo - don't remember that at Croker. Two screens a bit smaller than at Croker.

They are the negatives. The rest is obviously positive. Even with just the singing section making noise, they could be heard all over the ground. I am looking forward to the competitive games when the noise should be phenominal. I was in the lower West and the view was great. I wonder what it was like elsewhere.

A huge number of stewards at the end. Seemed a bit of an overkill.

We lost but if my memory serves me right we had a bad start at Lansdowne as well. Hopefully, we'll kick off with a win for the first competitive game.

Is there no place for a flag pole? The players faced a flag stuck on the roof as far as I could see or was it flying elsewhere with the Argentinian flag.

[pineapple stu]

The flags were hung from the roof alright; looked a bit silly, but I don't know where there's space really.

I liked the old Lansdowne - think it had character - and generally dislike modern grounds for being uniform, bland constructions (the Liberty Stadium in Swansea is awful, for example). I'm in the middle on this one though. The dip on the North Terrace gives it something identifiable, and it does look well from the outside. Not as good as what it replaced in my opinion (aside from capacity), but it's not bad either.

[centre mid]

Anyone else think the toilets were a problem? huge queues to get in and out.

[passinginterest]

A couple of the lads in work were at it, one had seats behind one of the corner flags and said view was OK at best, the other 2 were in upper East stand I think and they said they had a very badly obstructued view and couldn't see the goal at one end at all without standing up (I think they were behind a railing).

[Ari Gold]

After quite a bit of debate with my mates over the last few years over the Croke Park atmosphere issue - I personally didn't think the atmosphere last night was much different to any of the friendlies in Croke Park. I always felt people made too big an issue of the relation between the atmosphere and the pitch being a little further away in Croker. By and large the meaning of the game (competitive v friendly), the performance of a team and the willingness of supporters to be bothered to sing are the crucial factors to contributing towards a noisey atmosphere inside a stadium. The France and Italy games last year showed that Croke Park can be deafening for football when the above factors come into play.

However, I do think the new Lansdowne has the potential to be even louder due to the design of the roof, etc. Wins against Andorra and Armenia and the Russia game will be rocking if we manage to take the game to them.

[MeathDrog]

A couple of the lads in work were at it, one had seats behind one of the corner flags and said view was OK at best, the other 2 were in upper East stand I think and they said they had a very badly obstructued view and couldn't see the goal at one end at all without standing up (I think they were behind a railing).

Yep, I was to the left on East stand upper. My view was highly obstructed by a metal barrier and the fact that I was right beside the section entrance.

[tetsujin1979]

just to add to the thread, I had a purple ticket for the East Stand Upper, so instead of walking the few hundred yards down Lansdowne Road to the turnstile N, I had to continue down Shelbourne Road, cross the bridge, and come back in Beatty's Avenue to cross Herbert bridge. This added about 15 pointless minutes to the trip to the stadium.

Does anyone know why this route was changed, and will it be changed back??

[ofjames]

I was in the upper tier of the west stand and in row W which is at least half way up.

I have to say my view of the pitch was fine. However, my view of the 2 screens was completely obstructed. Had to stand/lean to see the screens through gaps in the metal beams.

Compared to what preceded it the stadium is fantastic, however the roof is quite poor really. By supporting the roof from below instead of above they sacrificed the sightlines of spectators in favour of the aesthetics of the exterior. I think that was a serious mistake.

[DannyInvincible]

My uncle was at the rugby opener and had similar complaints about the impaired view. Are the upper tiers especially steep? He suggested they were a health and safety hazard and the whole thing had been done on the cheap. Or a poor job done at a rip-off price even. I've heard complaints about the long walk to the ground as well. My uncle was especially critical of the fact that huge crowds are forced to squeeze through a dangerously claustrophobic tunnel on their approach to the ground. From what I've read of last night, little has been done to alleviate any of this since the rugby opener.

[OneRedArmy]

just to add to the thread, I had a purple ticket for the East Stand Upper, so instead of walking the few hundred yards down Lansdowne Road to the turnstile N, I had to continue down Shelbourne Road, cross the bridge, and come back in Beatty's Avenue to cross Herbert bridge. This added about 15 pointless minutes to the trip to the stadium.

Does anyone know why this route was changed, and will it be changed back??Presumably it was changed to equalise the flow of spectators coming from 4 directions and cut down on crowding. The large numbers on Lansdowne Road, particularly when the rail barriers were down were an obvious problem in the old stadium.

On the basis this entrance is on all the printed maps, I'd say thats the way it will stay. If you're coming from town, you've certainly got the short straw. But for those leaving their car in Sandymount/Ringsend etc. its a handy way in.

I presume there's no way to walk down the Dodder from Bath Avenue bridge along the new Red route and then skirt round to the Purple entrance?

[Schumi]

Are the upper tiers especially steep?
No worse than Croke Park from what I remember of the one time I was in the upper tier there.

I was 5-10 rows from the back in the Upper East at the South penalty box and the view was great though it took a little time to get used to looking down on the pitch like that. The roof beams didn't block the pitch though they did get in the way of the screens a bit.

[punkrocket]

Are the upper tiers especially steep? He suggested they were a health and safety hazard

Not as bonkers as when Robbie scored against Germany in Kashima, how no one broke their necks I dont know.

[/QUOTE]The dip on the North Terrace gives it something identifiable, and it does look well from the outside.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of the last swimming gala I was at.

[corkharps]

Can't wait for as real match to see the place rockin. One complaint only, thousands had to use one stairs to leave the ground afterwards. Anybody know if this was poor stewarting or bad design? Overall excellent!.

[jbyrne]

My uncle was at the rugby opener and had similar complaints about the impaired view. Are the upper tiers especially steep? He suggested they were a health and safety hazard and the whole thing had been done on the cheap. Or a poor job done at a rip-off price even. I've heard complaints about the long walk to the ground as well. My uncle was especially critical of the fact that huge crowds are forced to squeeze through a dangerously claustrophobic tunnel on their approach to the ground. From what I've read of last night, little has been done to alleviate any of this since the rugby opener.

long walk?? I think we are actually spoilt when it comes to how easy it is to get to the stadium from the city centre. far easier than the likes of stade de france, amsterdam arena, any stadium i was in at WC 2002 etc.
the roof steel is below the roof as if it was on top the height would be far greater and planning would have been impossible.
the stadium was tendered I am sure so the price would have been competitive at the time. it is actually very well specified with lots of great features for fans and players alike. was most certainly not done ”on the cheap”.
we now have the top class stadium we craved for years in a super location but still we find things to complain about. we really are a nation of moaners

[Junior]

Thought the stadium was great.

West Stand Upper, in the last block nearest the North stand - View was great. Probably a slightly obstructed view of the screen at that end but no issue, as I had a full unobstructed view of the screen at the Lansdowne end.

Approach from Murrays Pub on Bath Ave was fine - no queues. Up the escalator and in to the ground with no issues, bought a programme easy enough with no queues, had a slash pre and post match - no queues (didnt venture down at Half Time).

All in all thought it was great and look forward to having a few competitive games there where the atmosphere will be better (though well done to the ybig crowd in the SS for their efforts)

Did I mention I never experienced any queues?

[MeathDrog]

long walk?? I think we are actually spoilt when it comes to how easy it is to get to the stadium from the city centre. far easier than the likes of stade de france, amsterdam arena, any stadium i was in at WC 2002 etc.
the roof steel is below the roof as if it was on top the height would be far greater and planning would have been impossible.
the stadium was tendered I am sure so the price would have been competitive at the time. it is actually very well specified with lots of great features for fans and players alike. was most certainly not done ”on the cheap”.
we now have the top class stadium we craved for years in a super location but still we find things to complain about. we really are a nation of moaners
Cop on. If something is wrong then it should be voiced. Simple fact is, the stewarding and the whole ticket colour/route process last Wednesday was a disaster.

[DannyInvincible]

long walk?? I think we are actually spoilt when it comes to how easy it is to get to the stadium from the city centre. far easier than the likes of stade de france, amsterdam arena, any stadium i was in at WC 2002 etc.
the roof steel is below the roof as if it was on top the height would be far greater and planning would have been impossible.
the stadium was tendered I am sure so the price would have been competitive at the time. it is actually very well specified with lots of great features for fans and players alike. was most certainly not done ”on the cheap”.
we now have the top class stadium we craved for years in a super location but still we find things to complain about. we really are a nation of moaners

Don't shoot the messenger. :)

I accept your points, although he did say it took him close to an hour to get into the ground. Whether this was due to a long walk or extreme queues/delays due to poor organisation, I'm not certain. That's all I can say really, whatever its worth; I haven't been to the stadium yet, after all.

[jbyrne]

Cop on. If something is wrong then it should be voiced. Simple fact is, the stewarding and the whole ticket colour/route process last Wednesday was a disaster.

sorry, didnt hear of the deaths or serious injury. sincere apologies.
got to my east upper seat in 20 mins from ballsbridge before and got back to ballsbridge after the match in about 15. next time everyone might actually read the travel plan included with the tickets and actually plan their route. the disaster would be not implementing the differant routes. getting into and out of the old stadium was actually dangerous at times in my experience when the crowd was in excess of 45,000. ever tried to get out of the old east stand via the south terrace entrance after a match?? 20 mins usually just to get as far as the gate and then a complete mosh on lansdowne road. nothing like that trouble last wednesday

[OneRedArmy]

I see JD's smoke and mirrors over Vantage Club sales and the finances in general started to wear thin a the FAI AGM.

Good article in today Times by Emmet Malone on how the numbers aren't adding up and debt has been rescheduled again. Confirmed that ICG have been given the boot and FAI have taken over sales resposibilities. Further alleges sales of Vantage Club tickets at large discounts, as well as the "football family" swizz, 5 year ticket deals and inclusion of 900 Lansdowne Rd 10 year ticket holders for which no money has been received for 7 years within the previous sales figures.

Also RIP Connaught Rep John Sherlock, who died on his way home from a party to celebrate Paddy McCaul being elected incoming FAI President.

[elroy]

It was reported at the weekend that over 6k premium seats have been sold and that the debt on the stadium (in the region of 35m) will be cleared by 2020. IF true, I think that is decent reading. How many premium seats are there in total? 10k?