Lansdowne Road Redevelopment Thread

[pete]

If Planning Permission is not granted for Lansdowne little hope it would be granted for Ringsend. Lansdowne is already a stadium whereas would be almost impossible to get planning permission for green field urban site. Lansdowne already has public transport next to it too.

If I was a local resident I would look for reasonable concessions without killing the project as a stadium would be preferable to thousands of office workers & apartment dwellers accessing 24/7.

I would be surprised if planning rejected.

[OneRedArmy]

If Planning Permission is not granted for Lansdowne little hope it would be granted for Ringsend. Lansdowne is already a stadium whereas would be almost impossible to get planning permission for green field urban site. Lansdowne already has public transport next to it too.

If I was a local resident I would look for reasonable concessions without killing the project as a stadium would be preferable to thousands of office workers & apartment dwellers accessing 24/7.

I would be surprised if planning rejected.Pete, the IGB site is brownfield (there is a factory there already) and is right beside the docks so less basis for residents objections. And its not much further out of the city centre.

A lot of rumours doing the rounds that ABP are going to recommend the Lansdowne stadium with a lower overall height restriction, which would make it economically unviable (by reducing the capacity below 50,000).

The swap deal makes a lot of sense and hopefully will see the NIMBY residents getting their just desserts by seeing a load of social housing constructed on the Lansdowne site!

[gspain]

I think the IRFU should make it clear to the lcoal residents that if the stadium fails then it will be apartments and because of their responsible attitude to the community it will contain at least 15% social and affordable housing. There may even be room for a halting site as well. :D

[reder]

I think the IRFU should make it clear to the lcoal residents that if the stadium fails then it will be apartments and because of their responsible attitude to the community it will contain at least 15% social and affordable housing. There may even be room for a halting site as well. :D

Correct me if im wrong, but if a developer buys the lansdowne site for the purpose of building apts etc is he/she not legally bound to make a certain percentage available as social and affordable housing.

[pete]

Correct me if im wrong, but if a developer buys the lansdowne site for the purpose of building apts etc is he/she not legally bound to make a certain percentage available as social and affordable housing.

Legally bound & actually applied are two different things in Ireland. I believe if you host a tent at the Galway Races no responsibility towards social housing.

BTW its supposed to be 20% in the site developed but usually what happens is developers give bigger plot of land to the Local Authority so in no way or developments "socially blended" but used as means of local authority to fund their housing needs. The cost is passed onto the purchaser of apartments/houses anyway.

:rolleyes:

[eirebhoy]

An Bord Pleanala is expected to reveal its ruling today on the proposed redevelopment of Dublin's Lansdowne Road stadium.

The local authorities granted permission for the planned €365 revamp last August, but more than 30 groups and individuals have lodged objections, including local residents.

However, two of the objections were withdrawn last week when the IRFU bought two houses on Lansdowne Road owned by objectors for between €5m and €7m each.

An Bord Pleanala was due to make its decision on the matter last month, but said it needed more time because of the complex nature of the case.

An unfavourable ruling would be a major headache for the IRFU and FAI and could delay the completion of the project beyond its 2009 deadline.

[galwayhoop]

An Bord Pleanala is expected to reveal its ruling today on the proposed redevelopment of Dublin's Lansdowne Road stadium.

The local authorities granted permission for the planned €365 revamp last August

Cheap skates :eek:

what does the planned revamp consist of - a lick of paint (one coat) to the home dressing room?? ;) :D

[jbyrne]

serious rumours going around that it will have to be reduced to 45,000 capacity and that it will be therefore unviable. could be a bit of a mess really

[WeAreRovers]

serious rumours going around that it will have to be reduced to 45,000 capacity and that it will be therefore unviable. could be a bit of a mess really

That's been going around for a while. McNamara will offer the IGB site in exchange and the FAI won't be part of the new stadium. Back to plan Z in Abbotstown and Delaney fooked.

KOH

[galwayhoop]

heard them too. is the proposed capacity 55k?

and if it is reduced what then? back to square one or is there a plan B*?

* with the FAI involved i seriously doubt that there is anything resembling a plan B!

[OneRedArmy]

Today's rumour is that APB is going against its own inspectors recommendation and approving with capacity as is.

[cavan_fan]

However, two of the objections were withdrawn last week when the IRFU bought two houses on Lansdowne Road owned by objectors for between €5m and €7m each.



These 2 people should be named publicly. They have blackmailed money out of national sport to make a quick buck.

[eirebhoy]

Lansdowne Road looks at long last set to get the green light from the Republic's planning authorities for the €380m redevelopment of the old stadium.

Speculation had been mounting that the stadium project was due to be restricted and thrown into crisis after an oral hearing which collated grievances from residents regarding its revamp.

However, it is understood that An Bord Pleanála are set to award planning permission contrary to their own Inspector's report which recommended that the objections be upheld.

A definite announcement is expected today with the IRFU and the FAI anxiously awaiting the outcome, for if the stadium's capacity was restricted to below 50,000, the project is likely to be feasible.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/article2381835.ece

[WeAreRovers]

These 2 people should be named publicly. They have blackmailed money out of national sport to make a quick buck.

Their names have been all over the papers and IMO they've done nothing wrong just looked after the best interests of their families. It was the IRFU who acted in a dodgy manner - bribing objectors.

KOH

[galwayhoop]

These 2 people should be named publicly. They have blackmailed money out of national sport to make a quick buck.

i would imagine that property in the area is very expensive normally. probably worth €2m or €3m for houses there anyway. we are a capatalist country so if they can get €5m or €7m for their houses then fair play. if your house was located beside a stadium and you didn't want it to be enlarged/redeveloped are you saying you would donate your home for the good of national sport? don't think so. it is the same as people who lose their houses when motorways/dual carriageways are built. should they just walk away and give their house as it is a national road?

[NeilMcD]

Well Michael O'Leary paid nearly 10 million for a house on Raglan road so maybe that was the market value.

[Jerry The Saint]

It was the IRFU who acted in a dodgy manner - bribing objectors.


It encourages further spurious objections:( Other residents have complained that they couldn't afford the same level of legal representation and missed out on the jackpot.

Is the Ringsend site a definite no-go for the FAI? It might be better to go there as tenants rather than starting a new hare-brained scheme from scratch on their own (especially if it's out of town). This city certainly does not need three big stadiums.

[Peadar]

It's different it you pay €3m for a house you intend to live in but the IRFU is buying property to facilitate a development project.
They could never have expected to pay the going rate.

[IsMiseSean]

Its Ireland of course its goin to be a mess!!

[galwayhoop]

It's different it you pay €3m for a house you intend to live in but the IRFU is buying property to facilitate a development project.
They could never have expected to pay the going rate.

exactly - (i presume you mean they were always going to have to pay more). there is a willing purchaser and an unwilling seller. one net benefactor - the developer. therefore you have to pay above the odds. happens throughout the country on a daily basis. why the big rush to name and shame now? people applaud the 'small man' when he squeezes a couple of million out of a property developer but then go up in arms when the developer happens to act on behalf of a sports stadium. double standards methinks

[eirebhoy]

Which houses were they and why were they bought? Surely they don't need to knock any houses down on Lansdowne Road?

[tetsujin1979]

Same thing happened with Munster and Thomond Park, the residents were offered a significant increase on the market value of their houses to sell and drop their complaints.

[eirebhoy]

Same thing happened with Munster and Thomond Park, the residents were offered a significant increase on the market value of their houses to sell and drop their complaints.
So that's all it's for? The IRFU will lose millions just so people will drop complaints. The people on Lansdowne Road had very little to complain about anyway. In 2009, if this ever happens, their road won't be blocked off every 5 minutes with trains passing by. That's more than enough compensation for 2 years of noise and dust.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Bit of compassion here, buddy; they'll still be Southsiders.

[Sligo Hornet]

An Bord Pleanala is expected to reveal its ruling today on the proposed redevelopment of Dublin's Lansdowne Road stadium.

The local authorities granted permission for the planned €365 revamp last August, but more than 30 groups and individuals have lodged objections, including local residents.

However, two of the objections were withdrawn last week when the IRFU bought two houses on Lansdowne Road owned by objectors for between €5m and €7m each.
An Bord Pleanala was due to make its decision on the matter last month, but said it needed more time because of the complex nature of the case.

An unfavourable ruling would be a major headache for the IRFU and FAI and could delay the completion of the project beyond its 2009 deadline.

I'm sure I must be a first or second cousin to these people......what did you say their names were?

[ifk101]

If today's decision is in favour of the redevelopment, is that the end of the objections process and can building work theoretically start tomorrow?

[McGinty]

any idea at what time the decision is due at?

[OneRedArmy]

Which houses were they and why were they bought? Surely they don't need to knock any houses down on Lansdowne Road?From memory they need to knock one or two houses down at the end of the row nearest the turnstiles behind the West Stand in order to build a wide entrance plaze underneath the Dart line.

There was a whole ho-ha when the plans came out that someone should try and list these buildings as they allegedly have historical significance.

[NeilMcD]

If today's decision is in favour of the redevelopment, is that the end of the objections process and can building work theoretically start tomorrow?

Yeah a decision by the Board cannot be appealed, however people are entitled to do what the guy is doing with Tara and Carrickmines and take it to the High Court but I doubt that will happen.

[galwayhoop]

Yeah a decision by the Board cannot be appealed, however people are entitled to do what the guy is doing with Tara and Carrickmines and take it to the High Court but I doubt that will happen.

an appeal can only be lodged on a 'Point of Law'.

the decision itself cannot be appealed.

the only reason for an appeal is if the hearing/format was not carried out correctly or if for some reason it was not carried out legally. totally different to a planning decision where the actual decision forms the appeal.

[fergalr]

No news yet? Being civil servants I presume they've knocked off for the day at this stage so looks like we must wait till tomorrow.

[pete]

No news yet? Being civil servants I presume they've knocked off for the day at this stage so looks like we must wait till tomorrow.

Yeah bit optimistic for them to be in the office past 4pm. Maybe they all on flexi leave or career breaks? :D

[Don Vito]

Just heard from an unofficial source that it has been approved. The inspector recommended that permission be refused but the planning board overturned it. All sysytems go so! :D

[Mento]

Ye great stuff - 23 conditions but capacity to stay at 50,000

[SUB of the day]

YES!!!!!!:) :ball:

[SUB of the day]

:D :ball: considering my tickets 4 Croker are row Z Cusack, the sooner the new ground opens the better, only concern being the deep pockets of d4 residents could facilitate a high court joust.

[kingdom hoop]

funny freudian slip as bryan dobson referred to landsdowne road as 'the rugby stadium'!! but overall good to see something might be planned and finished for once, one big step closer

[jbyrne]

details of conditions etc here...

http://www.pleanala.ie/lansdowne.html

[pete]

The inspector recommended that permission be refused but the planning board overturned it.

Would that be a valid reason for high court challenge? i.e. the Board overturning the inspectors report?

:(

[eirebhoy]

I'm just reading through those files atm. I don't understand a lot of the appeals. Many of them appealing against the use of Havelock square as an entrance. It's as if it hasn't been used for decades.


Would that be a valid reason for high court challenge? i.e. the Board overturning the inspectors report?

:(
We have all their addresses now. ;)

[jbyrne]

the conditions dont seem too harsh at all. mainly to do with cladding on stands, dodder walk, no through way for fans entering north terrace through existing route, only 3 concerts per year and the usual stuff on working hrs allowed during construction etc.

[andrew1977]

My opinion the stadiums capacity wont be big enough, surely they could have got it up to 60000 supporters or would that have been shot down by the planning people . ?
Most decent national soccer teams stadium are all over 50k now at least for capacity.

[geysir]

Am I right in that nobody had an inkling that the Inspector would be objecting to the whole thing?

[cavan_fan]

Coming back to the 2 leeches who sold their houses (and by the way did they buy them before there was a great big stadium on the road), can the IRFU/FAI cancel now.

[fergalr]

No news yet? Being civil servants I presume they've knocked off for the day at this stage so looks like we must wait till tomorrow.
Apologies to those magnificant people at An Bord Pleanala. Take the rest of the week off!

[co. down green]

My opinion the stadiums capacity wont be big enough, surely they could have got it up to 60000 supporters or would that have been shot down by the planning people . ?
Most decent national soccer teams stadium are all over 50k now at least for capacity.

60k would have made more sense. There were issues regarding the North terrace end - sunlight being blocked from houses or some other nonsense.

Well done to all at An Bord Pleanala.

[Calcio Jack]

So when can we expect the court papers to be lodged by Thomas Davis demanding a Judicial Review on the basis that An Bord Pleanala disregarded the recomendation of their own inspector and granted planning permission...sure we can't have democratic decisons that allow executives/elected representitives of state bodies going around overturning decisions sure that would only lead to democracy , so no doubt TD will be first in to put a stop to that sort of thing !!

[gspain]

This is great news. Agree re the capacity being too small but there doesn't seem to be another option.

[Kingdom]

Just reading in the paper this morning that of the 50k, 10k will be for premium level and a further 1k will be box seats which just leaves 39k for regular paying customers, not much change from previous allocations so. Which would mean only 34k on sale to Irish fans when you take in away allocations of 5k. (probably covered months ago when plans announced but I'm a slow reader)

[Jerry The Saint]

Just reading in the paper this morning that of the 50k, 10k will be for premium level and a further 1k will be box seats which just leaves 39k for regular paying customers, not much change from previous allocations so. Which would mean only 34k on sale to Irish fans when you take in away allocations of 5k. (probably covered months ago when plans announced but I'm a slow reader)

The corporates were already taking up a good chunk of the 34k at Old Lansdowne though, weren't they? Anyone got an idea of the numbers?

Fair play to the stadium committee - they really did a good job in the design to shoot down most problems before it got to this stage (e.g. the sunlight thing at the North Terrace - keeping this country's proud tradition of 3-sided grounds :) )