Lansdowne Road Redevelopment Thread

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

The stand behind Havelock Square is the south stand. How does the east stand affect light in Havelock square?

It was the southern part of the East Stand that I was talking about (ie. towards the Havelock Square end of the ground). The reason the top tier of the current East Stand does not run the full length of the pitch in Lansdowne is because the local residents (in Ringsend?) to the north-east felt that it would block their light. This is probably true as afternoon and evening sunlight would fail to reach this low-rise residential area. The plans for the new Lansdowne try to mitigate the effects of shadow on this area, while maintaining the height of the southern part of the East Stand.

[thejollyrodger]

they should dig into the ground and lower the level of the pitch like what they did at Man City.

[Dan K]

I got the impression that (from the inside) it will be akin to say the City of Manchester Stadium.

How far from the mark am I?

[Risteard]

So there's no question of them rotating where the pitch is?

I thought that'd be a good idea. There'd be loads of space if they got rid of at least one of the rugby pitches.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

So there's no question of them rotating where the pitch is?

I thought that'd be a good idea. There'd be loads of space if they got rid of at least one of the rugby pitches.

For years they spoke about rotating the pitch, thereby making use of the open space to the rear of the East Stand. I think the Millenium Stadium was built in a similar way with the old Cardiff Arms pitch being rotated, although I could be wrong. However, my understanding is that the playing field to the rear of the East Stand belongs to Wanderers RFC, not the IRFU. As far as I know, the new design is already encroaching onto Wanderers playing field. I might be wrong but I think the same playing field is/was zoned for public open space. From what I've heard the initial talks over redeveloping Lansdowne centred mainly on ownership rights. These talks established that the Lansdowne Road stadium and the playing field to the rear of the East Stand were separate land holdings.

Prior to the Eircom Park project, the government set up a committee which would look into the feasability of a national stadium. The likes of Bernard O'Byrne and Liam Mulvihill of the GAA were on the committee, with members of the IRFU. They believed that the existing stadium and adjacent playing field offered an excellent opportunity to rotate the pitch and build an 80,000 all-seater stadium. However, the later difficulties concerning land-ownership and the subsequent constraints imposed by the lack of space will mean that the stadium will hold approximately 50,000.

[thejollyrodger]

Lansdowne: the problems


COST The initial cost of leasing Lansdowne Road from the Pembroke Estate back in 1908 was £50 per annum. How things have changed. The cost of revamping the stadium will be around €360m, some €65m more than first announced.

However, both the IRFU and FAI have assured the government that no extra cost will be incurred by the taxpayer, claiming that they will be able to increase their respective contributions by €35m each.

As it stands the government will be contributing €191m to the project. The IRFU have committed around €100m and the FAI €66m. John Delaney has proposed that the money can be raised through the sale of 10-year corporate tickets and he does not anticipate any borrowing.

CORPORATE The corporate world is where the FAI has targeted most, if not all of their energy, in raising the funds required. In revised plans the number and cost of corporate boxes, premium-level seats and corporate facilities have been increased.

A patron who purchases such a ticket for the redeveloped Lansdowne can expect to cough up in the region of €7200. A similar privilege at the new Wembley Stadium will cost you €12000, while anyone who already owns a ticket in Croke Park has paid €7,500.

Economics dictate this strategy is pursued, but our prawn sandwich-munching corporate friends are a fickle bunch. If results are not going well then they are generally the first to turn their back.

CONTRACTS In light of recent catastrophes in the awarding of contracts for major projects, tendering of this process had to be seen to be competitive.

In April Minister John O'Donoghue announced HOK Sport Architecture and PM Ltd as the design and project management teams respectively and these have since been engaged with planning consultant Tom Phillips in the whole process.

The CVs of both teams are impressive. PM is involved in the redevelopment of Wembley Stadium and Twickenham, while HOK Sports are one of the world's largest sports architectural practices. They are also involved in the Wembley project as well as Arsenal's new stadium. Other projects they were involved in are the Millennium Stadium, Croke Park and the upgrades of Ascot and Cheltenham racecourses.

IMPACT As part of the planning process project management and design teams will have to submit an independent Environmental Impact Study.

The two major issues that will affect the local community and general public at large are the potential height of the stadium and the inevitable disruption to DART and inter-city rail services.

On the former issue, increased provisions for corporate seating may increase the height of the new East and West stands, which would further impact on local residents' quality of life.

Of the latter, part of the existing plan - which may be quite different after today - is to provide an underground exit from the stadium which will avoid the severe congestion which occurs around Lansdowne Road DART station after a game.

CROKE PARK The decision of the GAA to open the hallowed gates of Croke Park to other sports was obviously welcomed by everyone who has a love for Irish sport.

But will Ireland's decline in the FIFA World rankings affect the profitability of the Irish team playing at GAA HQ? Attendance figures of 25,000 have been mooted as the threshold of productivity for a match at Croke Park and if Ireland can't attract the big names of world football anymore for friendlies then the FAI could be facing problems.

TIMESCALE As of now the redevelopment is on schedule and management teams are set to lodge a planning application by the end of this year. If the various studies and debate proceed smoothly, construction could commence in 2007. The stadium is expected to take 27 months to complete.

From today, though, when a revised conceptual design is released, the real fun and games can start. It will take all the skill and effort of everyone involved to deliver this project on time and on budget.

In such a built-up area a plethora of planning issues are likely to be faced. The ability of the FAI to generate the capital needed solely from the sale of ten-year tickets is also an area of concern.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1489380&issue_id=13146


The conceptual design of the new Lansdowne Road stadium will be unveiled today, I cant wait to see it !! :)

[dynamo kerry]

that the stadium will hold approximately 50,000.


I should just sneank onto the block booking list then

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

I should just sneank onto the block booking list then

Not necessarily. As far as I know the current block booking allocation may actually decrease. The FAI seem keen to obtain a significant proportion of their income through the sale of corporate and ten-year seats.

[ranting rover]

The new stadium will not be a "bowl" design but the 50,000 capacity all-seater will be covered.

I think it;s the latter, but just to clarify:

Are we talking about a full roof here - like Amsterdam/Cardiff?

Or 4 stands all with roofs?

[Peadar]

The FAI seem keen to obtain a significant proportion of their income through the sale of corporate and ten-year seats.

€7,000 for the 10 year tickets is outrageous!
Anyone who's willing to pay €700 a year for an average of 5 home games a year needs their head examined!

[ifk101]

The designs for the stadium are online below.

http://www.lrsdc.ie/news/default.asp?NCID=50&NID=427

[colster]

The designs for the stadium are online below.

http://www.lrsdc.ie/news/default.asp?NCID=50&NID=427

Looks great!!

[thejollyrodger]

wow, it looks modern... lets hope they can keep the old toilets :p


MINISTER UNVEILS NEW DESIGN FOR LANSDOWNE STADIUM
17th October 2005


Confirmation that Application for Planning will be made in December

Mr John O’Donoghue, TD, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism unveiled the design for the new Lansdowne Road Stadium at a function held earlier today, Monday 17th October, 2005, in Lansdowne Road. The design, which has been created by international stadia architects, HOK Sport Architecture, working with Ireland’s Scott Tallon Walker is for a 50,000 all seated stadium. Mr O’Donoghue also confirmed that plans are on schedule to lodge for planning permission in December of this year.


More images can be seen in our Media Gallery

The new design which has been created by the HOK/Scott Tallon Walker team has evolved over a four month period during which when the Design Team met with many of the different stakeholder groups involved in and impacted by the stadium.

The resultant design which is on four levels for three sides, sweeps down to one level at the North End to minimise the impact on those residents living in closest proximity to the stadium. The design also makes wide usage of both translucent and reflective materials all of which are designed to minimise the impact on the local area by reflecting as much light as possible.

Commenting on the design the Minister said "This is another major piece of sporting infrastructure in the city of Dublin which will be enjoyed by all Irish people. We can be proud of this imaginative and attractive design. It is a superb modern structure and one which I hope will come to be an icon for Irish rugby and soccer followers."

Speaking of the design Mr Philip Browne, Chairman of Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, complimented the Design Team on what he said was a most innovative solution to the challenges they faced.

“This is a very different stadium to the one which we looked at in our original feasibility study. We believe the team has taken on board many of the concerns raised and have addressed them without compromising their design. They have also built in a great deal more facilities than we originally had hoped for. This in turn has given us a wider range of funding opportunities.”

“As we have already indicated the budget for the stadium will be €365 million (€321 plus VAT). Given the additional funding opportunities through the provision of additional premium seats and corporate facilities the IRFU and the FAI are confident that the additional monies needed will be raised by the two associations. As you know, the Government is providing a generous contribution of €191 million.”

Speaking on behalf of HOK Sport Architecture the Senior Principal, Rod Sheard, said: "The new Lansdowne Road Stadium is a design for the 21st Century, symbolising the positive future for sport in Ireland. It will be a sporting and entertainment venue that provides facilities and comfort levels comparable to the best in the world."

" The stadium has been designed to be distinctive and to complement its setting in the heart of the city, creating a national stadium which will be globally recognisable as the home of Irish Rugby and Football."

Christopher Lee, HOK Sport Architecture’s Design Principal added: “Reflecting the colour of the sky and light conditions, the building’s façade will be ever changing. The undulating transparent form of the new Lansdowne Road stadium will be an ephemeral addition to the skyline of Dublin."

[Don Vito]

Not necessarily. As far as I know the current block booking allocation may actually decrease. The FAI seem keen to obtain a significant proportion of their income through the sale of corporate and ten-year seats.

The PM is right, the amount of tickets available to those on the block booking list is not due to increase with the new stadium. Most of the extra seats will be for corporate tickets. We can't really complain either cos without the corporates we won't have a stadium.

If you're reasonably high on the list you'll probably get on it in the next year or two anyway because alot of people will drop off the actual list because of the year of friendlies ahead.

[pete]

I think the reason they cannot rotate the stadium is that can't have large stand at the north terrace - Havelock Square side.

Interesting that will have 4 tiers in 3 sides but only 1 on the north side. Pictures make it very hard to imagine what will be like.

If they can build on time & in budget then will be good value by irish standards. I can't imagine that can be any valid planning delays as surely the designers have been talking to residents & the design must have been sounded out with them? They could close the entrance at the Havelock Square side in exchange for residents backing?

[thejollyrodger]

what does everyone think about the way it drops down to just one tier ? I guess thats where we can stick the away supporters but will it look right ?

[Risteard]

Very impressed.
Is that the only picture?
When are ye thinking it'll be ready?
2010?
This is Ireland.
Expect delays and cost over-runs.

[Don Vito]

I think it looks class. Hopefully we'll be playing in it in the run up to 2010 World Cup. I don't know the ins and outs of planning but surely if they have been consulting residents in the design there shouldn't be many objections?

[thejollyrodger]

1 year of planning and under 2 years of construction after that. So 2009 is the expected completion date. I reckon if they can square away the planning procedure without any hick ups then they will deliver the stadium on time. Stadia are easy enough to build compared to LUAS or tunnels.

It will be class to play the Ericom league cup finals there and all those international games ! Roll on 2009

[eirebhoy]

Very impressed.
Is that the only picture?
http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/photocategory.asp?PCID=34

[jbyrne]

The PM is right, the amount of tickets available to those on the block booking list is not due to increase with the new stadium. Most of the extra seats will be for corporate tickets. We can't really complain either cos without the corporates we won't have a stadium.

If you're reasonably high on the list you'll probably get on it in the next year or two anyway because alot of people will drop off the actual list because of the year of friendlies ahead.

also, i would imagine that a lot of companies currently have block booking tickets and when they switch to the new corporate / premium ones more block booking tickets will become available to the ordinary fan

[thejollyrodger]

one good thing is that all the suits and prawn sandwhich brigade will be stuck together in one part of the stadium and it will give the ordinary joe a chance to get behind the team and cheer them on (for once).

I didnt see any screen in the artists impression , is there going to be one ?

[gspain]

also, i would imagine that a lot of companies currently have block booking tickets and when they switch to the new corporate / premium ones more block booking tickets will become available to the ordinary fan

I can't see anybody on the BB list switching to corporate seats. The cost difference is huge.

I do think it is a great chance now for people to get on the BB list. A couple of mickey mouse friendlies and the prospect of easier tickets in Croke Park may encourage some BBers to give up.

However this is always assuming the f.A.I. continue with current BB levels.

[blutil]

http://www.lrsdc.ie/home/default.asp

[Tenderloins]

God its mad looking, doesn't exactly fit in with the skyline. Hard not to see a long dragged out planning battle.

[thejollyrodger]

there is another thread already started on the new landsdowne road

[gael353]

so its the city of manchester stadium with three tiers on three sides and one tier on one end? bertie bowl aside they should've moved to abbotstown.

[Schumi]

Looks great from the pic on that site, reminds me of the Olympic stadium in Munich (the nicest looking stadium from outside IMO) to an extent.

[Dawn_Run]

Looks good apart from the North side. Too few seats down there. I assume this is where the away allocation will be. Call me old fashioned but i preferred when there was Irish fans behind both goals and the away supporters tucked away in the corner.

[Green Tribe]

. Call me old fashioned but i preferred when there was Irish fans behind both goals and the away supporters tucked away in the corner.

:D Yeah, that was better. Keep them in their place! :D

[elroy]

Ive being on the block booking list for a while, prob be on it for a few years yet. Can anyone tell me whats the price of it at the mo??

[dcfcsteve]

Where do the bucket seats go.......? :D

[joeraki]

Looks a bit too fake. Wheres all the tramps with the orange wigs, leprechaun hats and silly plastic hammers :confused:

[pete]

Allianz Arena in Munich (http://www.eurostadiums.com/pictures.php?st=485Allianz Arena)

Amazing looking stadium.

[thejollyrodger]

from the irish times


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2005/1018/4035677555HM6FRANKMC.html
Swirling glass bowl truly outstanding




The new stadium will be a spectacular addition to Dublin, writes Frank McDonald.

All images tell a story, and the photomontages released yesterday by the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company of the spectacular bowl that will replace the existing hodge-podge of stands on the site are as compelling as early images of the new Croke Park.

The swirling profile of the roofline evokes a Mexican wave - "dropping when it needs to and rising when it wants to", in the words of project architect Chris Lee. And in a way, we have the residents of Havelock Square and O'Connell Gardens to thank for this truly amazing shape.

It was one of the constraints in designing the stadium that it shouldn't overshadow the nearby cottage-style houses. That's also the reason why it's relatively translucent, with a facade made from what HOK Architects describe as "glass shingles" to let light pass through it.

Neither is it a "bottom-drawer" project by HOK, which is one of the world's leading designers of sports facilities, including Arsenal's new stadium in London.

"The whole design is driven by the site," Mr Lee said. "This is not architecture flown in from somewhere else."

And the site is very much constrained physically - by the Dart line to the west, the pitches of Wanderers and Lansdowne rugby clubs to the east, the low-rise housing around Havelock and Vavasour Squares to the north and, of course, Lansdowne Road itself, to the south.

Nonetheless, the footprint of the planned 50,000-seat stadium is 20 per cent larger than the existing ground - fatter, if not longer. There will also be a 12½-metre underpass beneath the Dart line, so that rugby and soccer fans will no longer be blocked by the level crossing.

To avoid any impact on Dart services, a "crash deck" is to be erected over the line while the west stand is being demolished. This will then be turned into a lively, potentially sun-drenched public plaza, some two acres in extent, from which fans will enter and exit the stadium.

Because of its smaller size, the new stadium will be more intimate than Croke Park. Its design also takes more account of acoustics for concerts - something neglected by the GAA. The roof at the north end, where it dips down, will be the most translucent - again, in deference to local residents.

"We spent lovely summer afternoons visiting residents in Havelock Square and O'Connell Gardens, to see the site from their side," said Niall Scott, of Scott Tallon Walker, which is working with HOK on the project. "The design evolved to take their needs into account."

Had the stadium been turned around on its axis, east-west, rather than north-south, as several commentators have advocated, the impact on residents would have been much more severe. There was also a determination to produce a low energy building, with minimum use of air-conditioning. The glazed facade will let plenty of air in to the concourses, but it won't be "whistling through".

Because of the very high water table in the area, just 1½ metres below the surface, there will be no basement. Changing rooms and most services will be installed at ground level, behind the lowest level, which will contain some 20,000 seats, and run continuously.

The three upper tiers wrapping around three sides of the stadium will provide 10,000 premium seats, corporate boxes for 1,300 - designed so that even their occupants will feel part of the spectacle - and 18,000 ordinary seats on raking tiers above - "the gods", in effect.

The plans for Lansdowne Road have gone through several "iterations", but one feels the latest team of architects have got it right. Whatever about Nimby (Not in my back yard) opposition from people living in the locality, this will be a spectacular addition to Dublin. And in the only place for it too.

[thejollyrodger]

irish times

Many hurdles still have to be crossed
Gerry Thornley, Rugby Correspondent




Timetable: The Government has set a timetable of 10 weeks from now for lodging a planning application for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road.

The developers hope work will begin in spring 2007, with the project due to be completed within 27 months.

The first of the logistical difficulties will be in appeasing the local residents, though for all the consultative process, Philip Browne, chairman of the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, is under no illusions they will face an appeal with An Bord Pleanála.

"I think it would be foolish to plan otherwise with a building of this size," said Mr Browne.

Discussions have been taking place with CIÉ and Irish Rail about the demolition, which will have to take place over the Dart line, although ultimately "we hope to alleviate the problem for Irish Rail for evermore by taking the stadium completely off the Dart line".

An Iarnród Éireann spokesman said it was concerned about the potential impact on services during construction. However, he said the inclusion of underpasses for commuters in the design offered benefits in the long run. He said Irish Rail could not say how long services might be disrupted for until it received more detailed plans.

The asbestos in the roof panels of the West Stand, typical of buildings in the 1950s, will not add significantly to the cost, Mr Browne said.

"This is a big bang project, whereas Croke Park was a phased project," he added, confirming that the ground will be closed for the duration of the development.

The preferred destination for games when the ground is closed is Croke Park and to that end negotiations with the GAA have already started.

"Hopefully we can sort out an arrangement there," said Mr Browne. "If that works, that will be great. I think it is everyone's preference and hopefully all three organisations can work together, and I'm sure that they can."

Mr Browne does not foresee any difficulties with the tenant clubs, Lansdowne and Wanderers, whom the union are helping to find a temporary alternative facility as well as financial compensation.

When the new design is completed, there will be one back pitch as opposed to two.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2005/1018/954570614HM6THORNLEY.html


© The Irish Times

[pete]

Only seen the pictures properly today & low level at north end does look very strange. Still theres no doubt that the stadium will be much nicer looking & more spectacular than Croke Park which IMO has too much concrete.

If Frank MacDonald says its good for Dublin thats some achievement.

[Aldini98]

Question: Allianz Stadium, Munich cost circa 250m, 60000 seats
Lansdowne Road, Cost circa 350m (which will rise to 600m probably), 50000 seats .........

Ah those Fianna Fail builders........

[Peadar]

Question: Allianz Stadium, Munich cost circa 250m, 60000 seats
Lansdowne Road, Cost circa 350m (which will rise to 600m probably), 50000 seats ...

Nice simplistic way of looking at something. Don't consider any of the key factors, sure they only complicate things.

By the way, it's the Allianz Arena and its capacity is 66,000.

[OwlsFan]

Jesus, if I see another graphic generated projection of a new stadium here I'll go mad. Someone, somewhere, is making a fortune in graphic drawings of stadiums in this country which are never built or developed. We must be the leading country in the world for such things.

I'll believe it when I see it in 2022 (I know they say 2009) as we qualify for the World Cup in Ulan Batar, having just lost out on goal difference to playing in the previous one in England.

[pete]

Anyone got an "artists impression" of Bertie Bowl?

[thejollyrodger]

I think the whole thing comes down to the residents. If they give the ok the whole PP thing could be wrapped up in 9 months. If they dont like the stadium and are a bunch of NIMBY's it could be 2 years of a PP nightmare

[eirebhoy]

Anyone got an "artists impression" of Bertie Bowl?
http://www.gaa.irish-guy.com/img/stadium%20ireland.jpg ;)

Here it is:
http://www.bobrowski.co.uk/Images/stadium%20ireland/stadiumireland.jpg

[pete]

Nice little stadium model that. I wonder how long took to make...

Residents around Lansdowne have 2 choices
- Stop moaning about a new Stadium & try to influence design without blocking
- Block the stadium & then get ready for large apartment & office buildings.

If Lansdowne is not rebuild then it will be sold to developer. Residents need to decide what they think is best as it will be developed one way or other.

[OwlsFan]

Anyone got an "artists impression" of Bertie Bowl?

And don't forget Eircom Stadium. Saw a lovely graphic of that all in a shiny brochure. I signed up for a seat in that but politely declined when they actually came looking for the money because it was dead in the water by then.

[4tothefloor]

so its the city of manchester stadium with three tiers on three sides and one tier on one end? bertie bowl aside they should've moved to abbotstown.
No way, from personal experience stadiums built on greenfield sites, on the outskirts of town/in the middle of nowhere, are a disaster when it comes to matchday-experience. It's fine for tee-total fans/bores who take up their seats 3 hours before kick-off, but for the vast majority who like to have a few drinks and soak up the pre-game atmosphere in the pubs etc, getting to these stadiums is a nightmare. There's never any great facilities pub/bar wise at these stadiums, plus you have to put aside on average 1 hour to get to the stadium from wherever you are. Lansdowne Rd is perfect. It's bang in the centre of Dublin, surrounded by hotels and pubs and is easily serviced by the dart line. It has everything that Abbotstown doesn't have, plus a history to boot. Greenfield sites out of town are a complete no no as far as i'm concerned.

[thejollyrodger]

I think the new stadium will work well. As you say its right in the center and its near the DART. If we have bigger games in the future we might be able to use Croker.

I wish croker would cover up that big gap on the hill. It kills the atmosphere

[onenilgameover]

it looks like a fecking roller coaster.........jump on and here we go!

[RonnieB]

TBH, I think rebuilding any stadium in an built up residential area with poor access routes that get backed up for hours is a bad idea. It is hard enough to get to the place at the best of times with only 36,000 going to it. Cant imagine what it will be like with extra traffic.

Surely the best solution (but non viable, non brown envelopes?) attempt to get an area on the outskirts and have good access routes to it with good parking areas and shuttle busses from the city maybe?

[jbyrne]

TBH, I think rebuilding any stadium in an built up residential area with poor access routes that get backed up for hours is a bad idea. It is hard enough to get to the place at the best of times with only 36,000 going to it. Cant imagine what it will be like with extra traffic.

Surely the best solution (but non viable, non brown envelopes?) attempt to get an area on the outskirts and have good access routes to it with good parking areas and shuttle busses from the city maybe?

part of the plan is to have an underpass at the lansdowne road level crossing so that the gates wont hold up fans anymore. additional crossing points over the river are also planned. rugby internationals and many football friendlys regularly have 48,000 at them with problems for those who turn up 5mins before ko only.

non city centre stadiums just dont work at all