Shane Duffy D Norwich b.1992

[awec]

This whole area is such a mess. It's difficult for young kids to make these decisions.

If you listen to James McCarthy his position seems to be "Ireland asked me to play for them, I'm happy with how I've been treated and will so will continue to play for them." If you're Scottish that probably sounds plain weird.

I guess the NI lads especially the Derry boys are making decision more along political & cultural lines.

Either way, there is an easy solution for NI. When you're mathematically eliminated from qualifying ( often pretty early in the group ) cap all your best under-age prospects so you lock them in.

You're hardly world beaters yourselves, no harm to you.

[Qwerty]

You're hardly world beaters yourselves, no harm to you.

We've never been world beater more like world tiers. FWIW I think we should create an 'Island of Ireland' team. I'm aware that it was the FAI who walked away from the IFA but I would love to see an all Ireland team, what's probably stopping it is the smaller blazers on both sides not wanting to lose out on their little fiefdoms.

[Crosby87]

Its interesting, reading a few posts up from what his dad said....these young players with multiple possibilities really do have a serious ace in the hole when it comes to being able to leave.....
But having to play nations like France and Russia with so many more people, we have to be happy whenever something like this happens....

[DannyInvincible]

In all the media stories I've seen on this, not one has mentioned that Duffy qualifies to play for Ireland through his Donegal-born father and maternal grandmother by virtue of the non-contentious parentage rule; a fundamental and universally-accepted element of international football since who knows when? Instead, all I see is a big deal being made out of this (RTÉ describing Northern Irish football as having been "rocked", for example, as if it's about to collapse in on itself with the shock) and comparisons being made with Darron Gibson's more controversial and politically-charged scenario. Is it just to bolster a bit of news with some controversy or to win political points through thinly-disguised insults and gloating from the respective "sides"? Probably.

Both situations aren't exactly the same and some people seem keen to politicise this and accuse the FAI of bad faith or foul play here. Well, I'm talking about those I've heard speak on the matter from within the IFA (Worthington acting the paper tiger and talking nonsense about someone needing to find a resolution to this "situation", et cetera; does he suggest we abolish the parentage rule or revoke Duffy's father's citizenship?) and those I've seen from a brief glance through the thread dedicated to Duffy on the OWC forum (references to him being a "traitor" and "defecting to the Dark Side"; maybe comparisons with the Prodigal Son would be more apt?). I'd argue that Duffy's switch would be more akin to, say, a player like Barry Maguire declaring for us, than to a player like Gibson's whose decision was made under a wholly different set of circumstances; Gibson having no family born south of the border, as is well-known.

As I said, I had a look on the OWC forum and they seem to be linking all this with the Gibson example (along with even the Marc Wilson example; who, incidentally, I believe has an Irish grandparent so should, similarly, be distinguished from Gibson's circumstances), which they view as amounting to FAI "poaching" of players to whom we - it is claimed - shouldn't be entitled. For what it's worth, I hold a different view, believing in the birthright of all born on our island to declare themselves as citizens of Ireland if they so wish. So does the government of the UK, incidentally, which claims jurisdiction over the north-eastern corner of the island. The majority of the population in that little statelet also saw fit to recognise this. And before someone goes off on one naively idealising about keeping politics out of sport, well, it's rather difficult to separate the two when we're dealing with football teams representing nation states here. Quite how you might detach all things political from deciding who is eligible to represent the sporting teams of political entities - with all their territorial claims and counter-claims, agreements and disagreements - is beyond me. And you too, I would imagine. Anyway, without getting too much further into politics, God forbid, that right of citizenship should naturally extend to representing your country internationally in the sporting sphere. Either way, that becomes irrelevant here given Shane's rather indisputable links to the Republic through his father's birth as far as Northern Ireland fans are concerned.

So then, where does that leave us? The only real issue for them then that I can see as being remotely valid can be with regard to the IFA's investment of time and resources into him as a youth player, but they have to remember that this wasn't and never is a one-way process. Naturally, the IFA were developing him in their own interests - that's perfectly acceptable - but they were also aware of the risk of the player switching. Besides, he returned effort on the pitch and they benefited from him captaining their sides. Obviously he contributed quite a lot in return then. To say he still owes them is simple begrudgery. He always gave his best on the pitch for them, scored goals and played a vital role in their defence. That's immediate return for their investment. He gave back what he got. Now he'll move on to a different set-up, learn and progress further through similar investment and give back more still.

Even so, there's no obligation to continue "repaying" an association for the sake of routine. What does he owe them in these begrudger's minds? Two more years, five more years, a full career of loyalty?... It's admirable and courageous, I think, what he's doing because it's not like he's been drafted straight into our squad. He gave his all when selected for Northern Ireland despite not even truly identifying with the entity he was representing. That takes a lot to do and Northern Ireland fans ought to be thankful for that. He's now prepared to bide his time rather than jump at the chance of a cap now with Northern Ireland. That could be viewed as a sacrifice of sorts; denying himself immediate international exposure in the face of the mere potential to see a fruition of something greater down the line. It demonstrates restraint, maturity and healthy ambition not to settle for something inferior and to fight for what he really wants whilst it may be harder to achieve.

It's an interesting debate that one; the idea of players owing associations something in return for their investment beyond mere representation simultaneous to the particular association's investment. But you can see how it's not a simple matter of black and white for a player growing up in the north either where the whole footballing culture and framework will be IFA-oriented from a young age. While a player may grow up supporting the Republic, as Duffy clearly did, the structures around him and in which he finds himself from a young age are governed by the IFA. Local teams and local league structures are all tied into this system. Naturally enough, he'll find himself moving through that framework at schoolboy level more out of geographical circumstance and received convention than any active choice or positive realisation until it becomes routine or "just how it's always been" (maybe "snowballs" would be a bit strong a word to use, but you get the idea) and then there comes a time when maturity is reached and the player becomes self-aware enough to make his own decision regarding his own future regarding who he wishes to represent based on how he self-identifies, but he's already a cog in this other system. Obviously, in an ideal world, things would have run smoothly and he'd have been playing with us all along, but, then, this is the real word and it's full of grey. Obviously, as the player came to a realisation of who it is he actually wants to represent he simultaneously harboured feelings of guilt and regret on "turning his back" on his colleagues. Duffy clearly struggled with this for quite some time and was almost apologetic in announcing to Worthington that the time had come for him to face up to it and follow his dream. I think Northern Ireland fans have to respect that and cut the guy some slack. Anyone else who fully knows who they are below such a young age; well, fair play to them...

[The Fly]

^ May I congratulate you Danny on a very articulate and thoughtful post. If you are able to, may I also ask you to post it on OWC. If you are not, would you mind if I copy and paste it.....giving you full credit of course! ;)

I myself have posted, at length, on this issue on OWC many times, but it is always useful for new posters, particularly NI based ROI supporters, to offer their own perspective on the matter. Yours, would be very welcome.

The only point where I would have a somewhat different view is the idea of compensation. I believe that this may have to given serious consideration, for the simple reason that the number of players from NI opting to play for ROI could turn from a trickle into a flood. In which case, the future competitiveness of the NI international side will be severely affected.

[ifk101]

I find Nigel Worthlesston's comments quite amusing. He is quite prepared to encourage the targeting and selection of English underage internationals for NI teams. He obviously is aware of the eligibility rules but seems to conveniently fake any knowledge of the application of the eligibility rules when it comes to NI born players choosing to represent us. To quote Nigel himself; "I think it is a ludicrous situation which needs to be resolved."

In the case of Shane Duffy, the chap has for some time questioned if he wanted to continue representing NI. As Duffy has not been selected for any of our international sides, there still remained time for Nigel & Co. to convince Duffy to stay with NI. After all Nigel states that Shane seems to have decided to stay with NI only to change his mind again last week. Indeed Nigel states it was last week that he knew Shane had decided to throw his lot in with us. So why did Nigel & Co. decide yesteday to publish a press release with Shane's name included for NI's forthcoming glamour friendly? Surely Nigel & Co could have just lefted his name out of the squad list and continued their work in trying to convince Shane otherwise rather than bringing all this to the public domain. As EalingGreen points out, NI have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to centre halves so if Shane's name wasn't included in the squad list, the wider general public would have been none the wiser with what was going on behind the scenes. But now that Shane's decision is out in the open, the likelihood that he will represent NI again is near zero. Perhaps if this had been kept out of the public domain Shane could still have continued to represent NI.

Nigel states that the IFA will be releasing a statement about Shane Duffy later in the week. It should make for interesting reading.

[Gather round]

I'm sure Duffy probably gave his all when playing for NI youth teams (EG, GR might know more) - but no, that's all forgotten now I suppose

I can only judge by the games I've watched, where yes. Anyway, I'd trust Worthington, Beaglehole and co. to know when players' hearts aren't in it.


As the NI legend that is Gather Round has said, perhaps 18 is the best cut-off point
You smooth-talking Derryman, you.I'll admit I'd be more disappointed about this if SD was in his mid-20s, but he isn't. I just can't see Awec's points- you make it sound as if he was taking all this investment without returning anything- but in practice he was strengthening teams which otherwise would have included presumably lesser players. He doesn't really owe us anything


Either way, there is an easy solution for NI. When you're mathematically eliminated from qualifying ( often pretty early in the group ) cap all your best under-age prospects so you lock them in

Harsh, funny boy. Maybe we'll try it next time we finish 10 points behind qualifying for the Euros. Actually, we won't. Handing out caps like this is a bit pointless- all it means is the guy can't play for anyone else.


I think we should create an 'Island of Ireland' team. I'm aware that it was the FAI who walked away from the IFA but I would love to see an all Ireland team, what's probably stopping it is the smaller blazers on both sides not wanting to lose out on their little fiefdoms

Get with the program. There's already an all-Ireland team (plus numerous players from the rest of Britain). And it's still pretty mediocre. Just look at the Euro seedings.

[osarusan]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0223/nireland_duffys.html


The Irish Football Association look certain to demand answers from FIFA after another youngster decided he would rather play for the Republic of Ireland.

Manager Nigel Worthington believes there could be flaws in a system that allows players who have come through the age groups with one nation to represent another country.

Worthington has failed in his attempt to persuade promising Everton defender Shane Duffy his long-term international future lies with the province.
Although I do sympathise with the IFA, it is hard to see what the IFA think FIFA can do, especially as this is a case of the grandparent rule being applied, unlike Gibson's case. And, as has been pointed out, NI (along with every other team) are not adverse to snapping up a player who has played youth internationals for other countries.

[awec]

You're still all not grasping this. Most people aren't annoyed that he switched sides, its how long he waited. If he wanted to play for the ROI he should never have been anywhere near our youth sides.

This is what grates people. We develop a player and the FAI get the benefits.

If Duffy had declared for the FAI and played through their youth system, nobody would give 2 hoots about him.

[DannyInvincible]

^ May I congratulate you Danny on a very articulate and thoughtful post. If you are able to, may I also ask you to post it on OWC. If you are not, would you mind if I copy and paste it.....giving you full credit of course! ;)

I myself have posted, at length, on this issue on OWC many times, but it is always useful for new posters, particularly NI based ROI supporters, to offer their own perspective on the matter. Yours, would be very welcome.

The only point where I would have a somewhat different view is the idea of compensation. I believe that this may have to given serious consideration, for the simple reason that the number of players from NI opting to play for ROI could turn from a trickle into a flood. In which case, the future competitiveness of the NI international side will be severely affected.

Cheers. Yeah, that's not a problem if you want to go ahead and do that. I think I posted on there in the past about the Gibson issue when it arose, but, unfortunately, I doubt I'd have the time in the upcoming days to defend my views if they drew criticism, which they probably would. Maybe if I get the time I'll get on it and contribute to the debate, but in the meantime, if you'd like to post it there, that's fine with me, and I'll leave the defence of it up to you for now. :P

I see your point on the compensation. It's definitely something I'm not discarding lightly. It's a sticking point alright and the concerns have to be addressed. I think it's a matter of working out whether youth players owe associations something beyond the time and resources they invest in the player while they're representing them. Maybe you could argue that something might be owed back if the trickle becomes a flood to the point of rendering the IFA's youth structures semi-pointless. There is this idea that youth football is primarily focused on preparing players for the future or the senior squad. But then, it is very difficult to put a value on this potential future return. Possibly, a solution would be for the FAI to invest resources into football in Northern Ireland relative to some estimated value to the FAI of players who grow up playing through the IFA's system before switching to play with the Republic? While the value of those to the IFA who represent their under-age teams can't be discounted by Northern Ireland fans - and this must be considered as some form of return - there could be players in whom the IFA invest their resources only for them never to appear in a Northern Ireland shirt before making the switch. Maybe you could justify compensation where the player hasn't returned anything of real significance.

[DannyInvincible]

^ May I congratulate you Danny on a very articulate and thoughtful post. If you are able to, may I also ask you to post it on OWC. If you are not, would you mind if I copy and paste it.....giving you full credit of course! ;)

I myself have posted, at length, on this issue on OWC many times, but it is always useful for new posters, particularly NI based ROI supporters, to offer their own perspective on the matter. Yours, would be very welcome.

The only point where I would have a somewhat different view is the idea of compensation. I believe that this may have to given serious consideration, for the simple reason that the number of players from NI opting to play for ROI could turn from a trickle into a flood. In which case, the future competitiveness of the NI international side will be severely affected.

Cheers. Yeah, that's not a problem if you want to go ahead and do that. I think I posted on there in the past about the Gibson issue when it arose, but, unfortunately, I doubt I'd have the time in the upcoming days to defend my views if they drew criticism, which they probably would. Maybe if I get the time I'll get on it and contribute to the debate, but in the meantime, if you'd like to post it there, that's fine with me, and I'll leave the defence of it up to you for now. :P

I see your point on the compensation. It's definitely something I'm not discarding lightly. It's a sticking point alright and the concerns have to be addressed. I think it's a matter of working out whether youth players owe associations something beyond the time and resources they invest in the player while they're representing them. Maybe you could argue that something might be owed back if the trickle becomes a flood to the point of rendering the IFA's youth structures semi-pointless. There is this idea that youth football is primarily focused on preparing players for the future or the senior squad. But then, it is very difficult to put a value on this potential future return. Possibly, a solution would be for the FAI to invest resources into football in Northern Ireland relative to some estimated value to the FAI of players who grow up playing through the IFA's system before switching to play with the Republic? While the value of those to the IFA who represent their under-age teams can't be discounted by Northern Ireland fans - and this must be considered as some form of return - there could be players in whom the IFA invest their resources only for them never to appear in a Northern Ireland shirt before making the switch. Maybe you could justify compensation where the player hasn't returned anything of real significance.

[greendeiseboy]

You're still all not grasping this. Most people aren't annoyed that he switched sides, its how long he waited. If he wanted to play for the ROI he should never have been anywhere near our youth sides.

This is what grates people. We develop a player and the FAI get the benefits.

If Duffy had declared for the FAI and played through their youth system, nobody would give 2 hoots about him.

Think you'll find that most of us agree totally with what you're saying. But unfortunately or fortunately in our case that's the way it is at the moment with the rules.

[ifk101]

http://www.derryjournal.com/derry/Duffy-Says-No-to-Nigel.6095352.jp


"As you can imagine, myself and the rest of the family are thrilled to bits now that he has made his decision," declared Mr. Duffy.
"Shane told me it has always been his ambition to play for the Republic of Ireland. I for one can't believe that it is now done and I'm delighted."

Mr. Duffy claimed that his son's decision was based on furthering his professional career and he remained extremely grateful for the experience and education he gained as part of the N. Ireland underage international set-up.

"It's always been his childhood dream to play for the Republic," added Brian. "He was brought up through the N. Ireland ranks but as time moved on he felt he would benefit more from playing with the Republic.
"Shane holds no ill feelings whatsoever towards N. Ireland and he remains extremely grateful for the experience he gained when playing for the N. Ireland international squad at youth level."

The Football Association of Ireland have since invited the Duffy family as their guests to the forthcoming friendly international against Brazil in Arsenal's Emirates Stadium on Tuesday next, March 2nd.

Mr. Duffy and his family, including Shane, have accepted that invitation and they expect to meet representatives of the FAI including former international and Arsenal legend, Liam Brady who, it's believed has been highly influential in securing the services of the Derry lad.

So it was Liam Brady's doing (not that Shane needed any convincing by the sounds of things ;))

[dr_peepee]

You're still all not grasping this. Most people aren't annoyed that he switched sides, its how long he waited. If he wanted to play for the ROI he should never have been anywhere near our youth sides.

This is what grates people. We develop a player and the FAI get the benefits.

If Duffy had declared for the FAI and played through their youth system, nobody would give 2 hoots about him.

Serious question. How much of his development should you (NI) be credited for? Or the Repulbic for that matter in the case of any player? How far are we from the French model of youth development? Are there centres of excellence? How much support do the Schoolboy set up get from the Ascotiations to warrant credit for their development? Like are schoolboy coaches at district level presented with and supported in oppertunities to take UEFA coacing badges by the ascotiation or do they do it off their own back

Or is it a case of simply calling up what they feel are the best players at a given time to represent them?

Not being Sarcastic? I honestly don't know. Question is valid for ROI...

[ifk101]

Serious question. How much of his development should you (NI) be credited for? Or the Repulbic for that matter in the case of any player? How far are we from the French model of youth development? Are there centres of excellence? How much support do the Schoolboy set up get from the Ascotiations to warrant credit for their development? Like are schoolboy coaches at district level presented with and supported in oppertunities to take UEFA coacing badges by the ascotiation or do they do it off their own back

Or is it a case of simply calling up what they feel are the best players at a given time to represent them?

Not being Sarcastic? I honestly don't know. Question is valid for ROI...

There exists so called emerging talent regional centres. The FAI website is quite informative about this if you look under the "domestic & grassroots" and "player development" topic options.

[Predator]

It's interesting to note that Duffy had only been with Northern Ireland for about under 2 years and has only just turned 18. The way some bitter NI fans are expressing their outrage, you'd think that he had been there 10 years. Labelling Duffy a 'traitor', turning his back on 'his country' is also a bit sickening and shows a fundamental ignorance of both the player's individual situation and indeed that of any young player from a nationalist background.

I know he had represented various age-groups, but he was intentionally fast-tracked from the age of 16 (Worthington has admitted this) to attempt to stop him from switching earlier. From the player's perspective, at such a young age, it must be very hard to turn down these opportunities when they're presented. It must also be incredibly hard to leave when you're given a 'guilt-trip' over letting the team down or 'ignoring' (au contrare; Duffy has openly thanked his coaches profusely) the time and money that NI have invested in his 'development' (actually, wouldn't Everton be the ones who developed him?). However, Duffy appears to have matured somewhat and has finally come to a conclusive decision, turning down the tremendous opportunity of senior international football in order to follow his dream*.

*Duffy said on the back of the Irish Star today that it had always been his dream to play for Ireland, since it was the international team he grew up supporting (as is the case with many NI youths, with or without (perceived) 'legitimate' Republic connections. However, some Northern Ireland fans can't accept this at all it seems.

[geysir]

I suppose Shane did gain a bit of resilience while developing with the Norn Iron team when they got stuffed by Iceland (six nil?) at Winsdor Park.

What value would we put on 2 years experienced under Don Givens?

[dantheman]

I suppose Shane did gain a bit of resilience while developing with the Norn Iron team when they got stuffed by Iceland (six nil?) at Winsdor Park.

What value would we put on 2 years experienced under Don Givens?

That's true, we should be suing the IFA for hampering his career.....

[Razors left peg]

Since Ive never seen the lad play I just hope he turns out to be as good as people are saying now after all this fuss

[Drumcondra 69er]

In all the media stories I've seen on this, not one has mentioned that Duffy qualifies to play for Ireland through his Donegal-born father and maternal grandmother by virtue of the non-contentious parentage rule; a fundamental and universally-accepted element of international football since who knows when? Instead, all I see is a big deal being made out of this (RTÉ describing Northern Irish football as having been "rocked", for example, as if it's about to collapse in on itself with the shock) and comparisons being made with Darron Gibson's more controversial and politically-charged scenario. Is it just to bolster a bit of news with some controversy or to win political points through thinly-disguised insults and gloating from the respective "sides"? Probably....................
Duffy clearly struggled with this for quite some time and was almost apologetic in announcing to Worthington that the time had come for him to face up to it and follow his dream. I think Northern Ireland fans have to respect that and cut the guy some slack. Anyone else who fully knows who they are below such a young age; well, fair play to them...

That's a cracking post Danny, saves me a lot of time, the issue about this being different to the Gibson case has been mentioned on the thread alright, I'm ataggered by how it'snot mentioned on a lot of the media coverage.

Would be interested to see the response to the post on OWC if The Fly posts it....

[dantheman]

Something like these:

"In honesty you have to feel sorry for that truly pathetic shower of sh**te that is the FAI.Can't develop their own players and prefer to poach them from their nearest neighbours after they have developed them for years. Not one of the great Irish dispora is capable of managing them, so they have to draft in an Italian to try to coax his team of gather up mongrels to qualify for somthing.If their poaching policy is not sectarian why have they not called up any N.Irish or Scottish protestant players?
The IFA should ensure that Derry City are no longer allowed to operate within their jurisdiction as they seem to be the primary source of this cancer which is eating at our national team.As all these defectors have such an affinity with the RoI ,it is a bit strange that they prefer to earn their livings in BRITAIN instead of going to their beloved Dublin and playing for Shamrock Rovers or St Pats or whoever,but off course it is only payback for 10000 years of oppression.

Just some random thoughts ."


"I've been laughed down on this forum for saying that in the past but I still believe its nearing that stage.The continuing growth of support for republican politicians and thier blinkered agenda certainly wont help the cause of a cross cultural Northern Ireland team."

"f**k him.
f**k F.I.F.A.
f**k the F.A.I.
and f**k the I.F.A for not having a set of balls."

"He's a freeloading c**t that took the place of another player that could have benefited from the IFA's investment and had the distinction of playing from his country. He and his family are shameless."

So a lot of well articulated (!) anger. But, yet again, no self-reflection.

I think this may be a wake up call for some, so this vitriol may lead to something beneficial. They're clearly upset... :cool:

[awec]

His political opinion has nothing to do with it. There have been plenty of nationalists who have been proud to play for Northern Ireland. We respect the wishes of all who don't mess us about.

[greendeiseboy]

Interview with his Dad on UTV at 10.30 tonight

[Charlie Darwin]

His political opinion has nothing to do with it. There have been plenty of nationalists who have been proud to play for Northern Ireland. We respect the wishes of all who don't mess us about.
You do realise you're taking this way too seriously, right?

[northerncelt]

That's a cracking post Danny, saves me a lot of time, the issue about this being different to the Gibson case has been mentioned on the thread alright, I'm ataggered by how it'snot mentioned on a lot of the media coverage.

Would be interested to see the response to the post on OWC if The Fly posts it....

I actually think the point being made about him also qualifying through the parentage rule is missing the point. The lad qualifies for ROI, regardless of where his granny is from. He doesnt have to prove anything to anyone... hes from the North.. he qualifies... end of.

[cestlavie]

Understand football fans of Northern Ireland being annoyed, but his dad is from Letterkenny, it has been clear for sometime that he was looking for the FAI to ask him to come and join them so cant see why you are surprised. I mean he had friends and family on here that have been writing on here constantly flying his flag. Lets hope he keeps developing and is one for the future, certainly is a prospect. All we need now id to try and encorage another Donegal diaspora in Aston Villas Ciaran Clarke to join the revolution, only thing he is currently Englands U-19 captain I think. Derry City's Paddy McEleney good prospect in the future also.

[DannyInvincible]

You're still all not grasping this. Most people aren't annoyed that he switched sides, its how long he waited. If he wanted to play for the ROI he should never have been anywhere near our youth sides.

This is what grates people. We develop a player and the FAI get the benefits.

If Duffy had declared for the FAI and played through their youth system, nobody would give 2 hoots about him.

To be fair, I think you're the one who's failing to see the point through your knee-jerk ranting and raving; that this isn't a simple black and white issue. You're living in a fantasy world. In the last paragraph of my post above the one of yours I am quoting here, I tried to rationalise the most likely reason why Duffy took until now to declare for Ireland after years of routine playing within the IFA's framework followed by weeks of guilt over his realisation that the time had come to follow his dream. Others have tried to do likewise. I find it hard to believe you keep missing all this. Whilst he may have been part of the under-21 Northern Irish side, it must also be remembered that the lad is, after all, still only just turned 18 last month.

And how much credit can you take for his development anyway? The IFA have already benefited from their relationship with him. Under-age representation - captaincy even - doesn't count for nothing, you know. You got an immediate return for your investment. Does he owe you a career of service simply because your youth coaches invested time and resources in him? That would be quite a disproportionate obligation to demand of anyone. The FAI will now invest their time and resources in Duffy and reap their own benefits from this. Be thankful for what he offered your youth teams and move on. It'll do you good.

Out of interest, at what age would you have preferred Duffy to declare for Ireland?

[DannyInvincible]

"He's a freeloading c**t that took the place of another player that could have benefited from the IFA's investment and had the distinction of playing from his country. He and his family are shameless."

...

I think this may be a wake up call for some, so this vitriol may lead to something beneficial. They're clearly upset... :cool:

I wouldn't discount that one in particular as mere vitriol. Sure, it's hard to see it through the bitter hate, but there is a valid point in there somewhere that I think deserves attention at least; that being that one could argue that he did take the place of someone else who might have benefited from the IFA's investment. But then, it depends on how you view youth football. Is it preparation for the future or could it be considered an end in its own right? If you hold the former view, you might feel the IFA are owed something. On the other hand, if you hold the latter view, you'll feel that the IFA are owed nothing as they have already been repaid by Duffy's services to their youth teams.

[DannyInvincible]

I actually think the point being made about him also qualifying through the parentage rule is missing the point. The lad qualifies for ROI, regardless of where his granny is from. He doesnt have to prove anything to anyone... hes from the North.. he qualifies... end of.

Indeed, you're quite right; he qualifies. End of. But try telling that to those foaming at the mouth on the OWC forum and lambasting him for "following in the footsteps of Gibson". I just think Duffy and the FAI are coming under undeserved and misplaced criticism in this particular instance. The Gibson issue is a different debate and there's no need to draw Duffy into it. Not that I have issue with how Gibson qualifies to play for us either - I'm in full support of northern players having the right to represent Ireland and would be disgusted if this right was ever taken away from them, as I've always maintained - but it can't be denied that it's contentious for some and seems to come with a stigma attached in the minds of others; the inference being that it involves poaching and dirty work on the part of the FAI and players involved. This need not be tagged on to Duffy. He has nothing to feel remotely guilty about, even if what Northern Ireland fans had to say on the Gibson matter is correct. Of course, I'm not saying it is; just pointing out that they can't criticise Duffy in the same manner they do Gibson.

[bwagner]

How come we didnt get Naill Mc Ginn?

[geysir]

I actually think the point being made about him also qualifying through the parentage rule is missing the point. The lad qualifies for ROI, regardless of where his granny is from. He doesnt have to prove anything to anyone... hes from the North.. he qualifies... end of.

Exactly and by all accounts he felt like a square peg in a round hole in the IFA set up and had made his decision ages ago but was persuaded to delay and delay.

I was somewhat surprised to find many, if not most, of the OWC still do not understand the FIFA answer of May 2008 to the IFA objection..They still think Irish citizens born in the North need to have some family connection to the South before being eligible. They are not the brightest of sparks up there.
With obstinacy and ignorance abound, then throw in a level of bitterness and begrudgery over Duffy and the thin FFA facade fades fast as the internet equivalent of a moronic loyalist lynch mob gets motoring.

[SkStu]

international youth football is a minefield for both the player and the association with both parties giving their all in the hope that the player will make it all the way through and the association will have him represent the senior team. For a whole host of reasons things dont always work out with the player. In fact, the majority of "promising" underage players dont make it all the way through the international grades.

Duffy's case with the IFA is no different. Get over it nordie lads.

[Razors left peg]

I dont remember anyone on here getting too upset or abusing Shane Lowry after he decided to play for Australia after he played up to under 21 level for us.Dont really see a huge difference between the 2 situations..... maybe we just used up all our bitterness on Thierry Henry!

[tetsujin1979]

Same with Tony Kane when he changed his allegiances to the North, or Paul Marshall when he turned out for England

Matthew Connolly came in for some criticism when he changed to England, but it died off fairly quickly

[yapster]

Ireland need all the Irish-born players they can get...

[greendeiseboy]

Ireland need all the Irish-born players they can get...

Agree, and that should include kids born abroad to Irish parents and grand parents who want to play for us. The way our economy is at the moment mass emigration is happening again which will lead to a lot of Irish kids being born abroad through no fault of their own but equally as Irish as those born here.

[The Fly]

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/donegalsport/Shane-Duffy-follows-his-dream.6101022.jp

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/donegalsport/Father39s-delight-at-Shane-Duffy39s.6094245.jp

[dantheman]

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/donegalsport/Shane-Duffy-follows-his-dream.6101022.jp

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/donegalsport/Father39s-delight-at-Shane-Duffy39s.6094245.jp

http://www.u.tv/UTVMediaPlayer/Default.aspx?vidid=128551

His dad interviewed here at 19:36

[Predator]

I see that many Northern Ireland fans are annoyed that Duffy's father has indicated (as Duffy also did) that Duffy grew up supporting and dreaming of playing for Ireland. They're also annoyed that he has insisted that they're a proud Irish family. You really can't win. Meanwhile, the IFA have used this as another springboard to launch an appeal against the established rules. It really seems like a storm in a teacup.

On Duffy as a player;it's clear to see that Worthington was extremely disappointed at losing Duffy and to me, that can only be indication of how highly he rates him - otherwise why would he have fast-tracked him? I've heard from some Everton fans who've seen him play that he's one of the best under 21 defensive prospects on the island and his declaration is a huge boost as we're looking for a strong defence to take over from Dunne and O'Shea et.al. (if only we could get another Given!). He's shown glimpses of his potential in the Europa league despite being only 17 and if you look at Everton forums, some fans call for both him and Coleman to be included instead of Distin and Hibbert. He's probably well down the pecking order at the minute, with Jagielka's return, but Yobo and Distin are both 32, so who knows when he'll get his chance? Hopefully he (along with Coleman) can go on to have a successful career. It's already had enough controversy to last him ten years!

[irishfan86]

his declaration is a huge boost as we're looking for a strong defence to take over from Dunne and O'Shea et.al. (if only we could get another Given!).

Regarding your Given comment, I'm not saying Westwood is going to be as good as Shay, but he is a very good young keeper who I'm very happy to have within our ranks. Basically I'm saying while it might be a slight step down, we are still going to have a very good keeper once Shay hangs up his mitts.

[Predator]

Regarding your Given comment, I'm not saying Westwood is going to be as good as Shay, but he is a very good young keeper who I'm very happy to have within our ranks. Basically I'm saying while it might be a slight step down, we are still going to have a very good keeper once Shay hangs up his mitts.
Glad to hear that. I haven't seen much of him to be honest. How about the U21 and U19 'keepers? I've heard that there's another young Donegal keeper in the U19 squad... Hopefully he's taken inspiration from Packie and Shay!

[cestlavie]

Glad to hear that. I haven't seen much of him to be honest. How about the U21 and U19 'keepers? I've heard that there's another young Donegal keeper in the U19 squad... Hopefully he's taken inspiration from Packie and Shay!

The Finn Harps keeper is Irish under 19 keeper, Ciaran Gallagher, got good potential, time will tell. Also the under 16 or under 17 keeper is from Donegal and is being tracked by nearly all the top clubs over the water. He is from Glenea, think his name is Joe Coll or something like that!

[Predator]

There must be something in Donegal water!

The Independent is suggesting that Duffy will be promoted sooner rather than later:

McShane struggled against the Brazilians, but Trapattoni has given the Hull (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Hull+City+AFC) man a vote of confidence and feels he is improving under his tutelage. However, he indicated that a rapid promotion for recent recruit Shane Duffy (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Shane+Duffy) is likely.
The Derry-born Everton defender, who represented Northern Ireland (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Northern+Ireland) up to U-21 level and had been lined up for a senior debut in Albania (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Albania) last night, upset Nigel Worthington (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Nigel+Worthington) by throwing his lot in with the Republic a fortnight ago.
Duffy and his family were guests of the FAI (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Football+Association+of+Ireland) at the Emirates and, conscious of Ireland (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Ireland)'s lack of riches in the centre-half department, Trapattoni is contemplating bringing him to an end-of-season gathering, that is yet to be arranged, before the RDS (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Royal+Dublin+Society) friendlies with Paraguay (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Paraguay) and Algeria (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Algeria).

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trapattoni-confident-injured-oshea-will-return-in-time-for-euro-bid-2087957.html

[elroy]

To view the lad as a white knight for us would be very silly. Yes he has plenty of potential but he is very very young (only 18 if im right). Im not saying he shouldnt be called up to the training squad this summer, but I think to expect him to be a serious contender for the squad for the next campaign is a bit premature. Give the lad time, its not that long ago many on here were exalting McShane as our next great defender, very hard to hear anyone say such words now.

[Predator]

Yeah, a rapid promotion like that after the events of recent weeks would mean a lot of scrutiny and pressure on the lad. The training camp will give Trap an opportunity to work with him and see how he rates him, but he should maybe slot into the U21 set up first. God knows they need a centre half or two, judging by the reports from last night's game.

[geysir]

They or we ? :)

St Ledger has done more than could be expected since coming in but I'd prefer Dunne and OShea at CH and I have always thought a fit Kelly is good enough for RB.
There is dearth of CH quality after those 3. McShane is not getting worse but he still has that one big mistake in his game which undoes a lot of his good work.
There is a space that Duffy could fill in the squad but he would have to be a remarkable talent to get in so young.

[Predator]

I don't get hung up on using 'they' or 'we' geysir. I use them both when talking about the team. Although, perhaps it was my subconscious distancing me from Don Givens...

I'd much rather Duffy went through our U21s (or even U19s, since he's still young enough!), because he is still very young and has only had two senior games for Everton. It would probably be far too much to expect a young lad to step up right away. That said, Trap included 19 year old Cunningham in the squad, who had only 45 minutes of senior football under his belt.

There's no doubt that his switch is very good news for us though, given our relatively weak defence. He's highly rated at Goodison and I think he captains the reserves from time to time, so it will be interesting to see if he will break into the Everton first team or go out on loan.

[tetsujin1979]

Cunningham was included out of necessity, Trapattoni needed to look at an alternative left full. From what I saw last night, Cian Hughton is not up to the job. Ward's omission is puzzling, but Trapattoni did get to see him in the B game VS Forest in 2008. He's mentioned Conor Powell as well, but there's no real reason to call him up until he's match fit

[geysir]

I don't get hung up on using 'they' or 'we' geysir. I use them both when talking about the team. Although, perhaps it was my subconscious distancing me from Don Givens...

Anyway I was mistaken, I misread your reply, I thought you were referring to the Brazil game which would have been more of a "we", but you were referring to the defense in the u21s in a game you did not see. Even by strict standards of 'we' and 'they' usage, it's appropriate.

[Predator]

On the bench for Everton today. He's been getting rave reviews playing for the reserves and has been captaining them I believe.

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/09-10/comment/fan/article.php?submissionID=14883