Bohs accounts

[dcfcsteve]

If they're getting 400k per year in rent then 6 million is a fair estimate.

Very over-valued in fairness, as the broad rule of thumb is that the price of a commercial asset is normally 10 times its annual income - in this case €4m rather than €6m.

We can argue over which multiplier to use in valuing a commercial asset though (and no doubt you will... ;)).

[dcfcsteve]

But its not every week is it. these are form last year and have been widely known for a while. I saw them first weeks ago. If I saw them, then journos saw them

And once again, my main point is that people here over emphasise the effect these type of things have on people who don't care about the league. Ask 20 non LOI people tomorrow what they think of Bohs finances and I guarantee you none of them will have a clue.



Agreed.

The number of clubs in England who are in serious financial sh!t is simply eye-watering - and most people just don't know or care.

Administration is extremely common in English football, yet no-one argues that it is a rubbish league

[pete]

2007: Transfer / Sign on fees - 179,372


Crazy.

So the car park is valued at 6m now but they have taken out a 2m loan against it. No wonder Bohs have 4 Bankers.

I love the way they blindly assume they will win the court case with Albion without any plan B. Even if they win the case it is almost impossible to believe Danniger will go ahead with the original deal as would most likely walk away from or renegotiate.

[stamullendrog]

hate to see any club in **** its not nice but you only have to look at the squad and see the majority of them are ex shels and ex drogs.wont exactly be earning pittance will they?and as for the club been asset rich,sure they are.jason byrne glen crowe joey ndo brian shelley are all wonderful assets for a start;)

[osarusan]

The fact that the league seems to be embroiled in some sort of farce every week certaintly is a huge contributing factor to the ****e attendances we all experience.



Dodge's point, which I agree with, is that if tomorrow, you ask 1000 people who don't go to LOI matches why they don't go to LOI matches, very few people will give financial crises, unpaid players, or licencing decisions as reasons. As non-LOI fans, they won't even be aware of these things. The vast majority will just say the reason they don't go is that LOI is sh!te football played in sh!te grounds.

[LeixlipRed]

we laughed at Rovers when they made monumental f*ck up after monumental f*ck up after monumental f*ck up. We laughed at Shels too. We just laugh at Pats anyway.

Enjoy the moment lads. :ball:

We will :)

[Ezeikial]

Are ye all going soft in the head?

No one has blammed Sean Connor yet!

[A face]

Problems like these are indicitive of what happens in general in the league. We've had two ridiculous stories in the past couple of days, with the non-payment of Dan Murphy and these accounts. They all contribute to the generally negative a derisory attitude towards the LoI amongst the vast majority of the Irish population.

Agreed and to argue that it doesn't damage the image of the league for new or potentially new fans is completely off the wall mad stuff, stuff the league has been dogged with for years. With all this stuff going every single year you can be 100% sure that its definitely not helping the situation anyway.


What I'm saying is that it isn't good for the league. And that any collective w.ankathon is short-sighted.

Yup .... short-sighted ..... and we wouldn't have it any other way* ;)


Dodge's point, which I agree with, is that if tomorrow, you ask 1000 people who don't go to LOI matches why they don't go to LOI matches, very few people will give financial crises, unpaid players, or licencing decisions as reasons. As non-LOI fans, they won't even be aware of these things. The vast majority will just say the reason they don't go is that LOI is sh!te football played in sh!te grounds.

They WILL be aware, so much aware that its scary. They dont listen to anything else and invariably point and the latest headline and gesture "sure why in gods name should i bother with that league. Look at the state of it". And yes this would be someone from Cork referring to Bohs/Rovers/Galways situation.

The league needs a good swift kick in the hole, and i hate saying it but a club going out of business may be the only thing that would work.

* Do we know any other way?

[pete]

Are ye all going soft in the head?

No one has blammed Sean Connor yet!

When I quoted the transfer & sign on fees for 2007 I didn't I thought it would be obvious ;)

[Croker]

I understood it was ALL wages.

Even so, lets look again.

If they spent only the 65% of income on players wages, then they spent €1,983,578 on those wages.

The overall wagebill was €2,847,596.

Meaning they spent an incredible €864,018 on other wages. The average wage for non playing (parttime barmen, parttime admin, parttime groundstaff and backroom) staff at Bohs is over 45k a year.

Something is very, very wrong with this picture.
Fenlon is probably on about 200 or 300k!

[brendy_éire]

I'm nit-picking slightly here, but are the bar staff part-time? €104,880 on wages between 4 people, working 17.5 hours per week, works out at just under €29 an hour.
Operational expenses look very high also. €15k on stationery and postage, €15k on phones.

[Jersey Cow]

It's absolutely frightening reading....how can any Bohs member justify the spending??.....any club can do what has happened here....spend money that you don't have! :eek:

[placid casual]

Does not make good reading for bohs.
Hopefully they can survive in some form or another because a rivalry is no use if there is only 1 participant.unless your roy keane or course!
maybe a spell in the "discover ireland" league will do them good and give the members/fans a real sense of perspective on whether or not they actually want a club to support.
Rovers have a ****e team at the moment but none of that can undermine the pride and satisfaction we have in knowing our club is on a safer footing and we are on the road to where we feel we belong. success.

[A face]

It's absolutely frightening reading....how can any Bohs member justify the spending??.....any club can do what has happened here....spend money that you don't have! :eek:

Simple answer ..... They cant !!

If i was a member for any length of time and knew what was going on now i'd be losing the rag. The board have basically stuck two fingers up at the whole membership.

[OneRedArmy]

Simple answer ..... They cant !!

If i was a member for any length of time and knew what was going on now i'd be losing the rag. The board have basically stuck two fingers up at the whole membership.How have the Board done that?
It's one member one vote. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that not enough members either cared enough to exercise their duty or that the majority of members agreed with the way things were being run.

It's not as if these accounts are a surprise!

[HulaHoop]

Simple answer ..... They cant !!

If i was a member for any length of time and knew what was going on now i'd be losing the rag. The board have basically stuck two fingers up at the whole membership.

What you don't seem to realise is that the majority of their membership are as clueless as their board. At their members meetings there are a handful of sane ones who voice their disatisfaction but they are usually shouted down and out voted by the majority of the members. Originally I thought the whole "Bohs fans are clueless" thing was just a Rovers in joke but most of them really are clueless. Take a look at their forum - they're probably still talking about champions league qualification like they were a few weeks ago. They're still singing we are invinciple every week and has anyone heard any sack the board chants coming from the terraces? No didn't think so.

[Leejo]

has anyone heard any sack the board chants coming from the terraces? No didn't think so.

Well we can safely say that you weren't at the Bohs match last Friday.

[Inside Man]

Interesting to note the cost of running under age teams. Rose from 15k to 130k. Put this down to A-League i'd say but it shows for the smaller teams like Sligo: How much of a challenge it is to put a team in this league. 115k a season: This is 10% of our turnover. And with a grant of 24k from FAI to run this team its still not viable imo.

I hope to god that the figure of 428,555 includes Connors settlement because if this is not true that is shambolic. What are they thinking?

Anyone notise how gate reciepts dropped a massive 20%plus (110k) in a double winning season. TV income down 50% and sponsorship hit too. If they didn't get that extra 400k last year in prize money they would be ....

[Mr A]

Interesting to note the cost of running under age teams. Rose from 15k to 130k. Put this down to A-League i'd say but it shows for the smaller teams like Sligo: How much of a challenge it is to put a team in this league. 115k a season: This is 10% of our turnover. And with a grant of 24k from FAI to run this team its still not viable imo.


No way running a A championship side costs that. If you can't run it for under the 24k there's something badly, badly wrong.

I'd be very interested to know what the 115k was spent on..

[bohs til i die]

Interesting to note the cost of running under age teams. Rose from 15k to 130k. Put this down to A-League i'd say but it shows for the smaller teams like Sligo: How much of a challenge it is to put a team in this league. 115k a season: This is 10% of our turnover. And with a grant of 24k from FAI to run this team its still not viable imo.

I hope to god that the figure of 428,555 includes Connors settlement because if this is not true that is shambolic. What are they thinking?

Anyone notise how gate reciepts dropped a massive 20%plus (110k) in a double winning season. TV income down 50% and sponsorship hit too. If they didn't get that extra 400k last year in prize money they would be ....


Gate receipts drop is because we had Sunderland and Wolves friendleis in 2007 and Sean Connor's court case was in December, our financial year ended in November.

[A face]

Interesting to note the cost of running under age teams rose from 15k to 130k. Put this down to A-League i'd say

That is not alarming, because i dont believe it. That sounds well dodgy and this WILL be all over the papers this year. I hope to god its not during the season.

Shels win the league and go bust
Bohs win the league and go bust

And people say that wont send out a bad message.

[corkboy360]

As a City fan I can't really talk as we have our own problems but going from one month where the club were FOOKED and looked like they would be part time and not able to pay players to then go and bulk up your squad with new players and keep the old ones:confused:

[Dodge]

That is not alarming, because i dont believe it. That sounds well dodgy and this WILL be all over the papers this year. I hope to god its not during the season.

Shels win the league and go bust
Bohs win the league and go bust

And people say that wont send out a bad message.

What happened the other 2 clubs to recently win the league?

[stamullendrog]

That is not alarming, because i dont believe it. That sounds well dodgy and this WILL be all over the papers this year. I hope to god its not during the season.

Shels win the league and go bust
Bohs win the league and go bust

And people say that wont send out a bad message.

might as well add us to that/came out of it slightly better than shels but not a whole lot

[LeixlipRed]

might as well add us to that/came out of it slightly better than shels but not a whole lot

You're out of it are you? :eek:

[Guts&Glory]

Diverting and all as this must be for some of the posters on here who will never get to see a set of audited accounts for their own clubs, apart from the faux shock/horror the reality is that Bohs is an asset rich club but one which has been negligently administered in the past four to five years (as if you all didn`t know). If it was to continue to be administered in the same manner we would be out of business by 2013. We will have a largely new Board in the next few months which should stop the haemorraging over the next two years.
Any company with assets conservatively at 25-30 million and cumulative debts at 5-8 million tops would be considered as very healthy in the current economic climate .
With improved skill mix and better governance at Board level we`ll come out of this stronger and still considerably richer than any other club in the league. And yes, we are invincible


With that logic do you work for Irish Nationwide by any chance.........will you come down from that cloud you are on and back to reality.

You say your debts (that can be called in at anytime by your creditors especially so in current climate) are estimated at Eur 5-8 million, which is scary enough having a Eur 3m window of discrepancy and an alleged
Eur 25-30m so called asset that no one wants to buy now or in the forseeable future.

It is staggering beyond belief that you and the board do not see an issue with that.

[thischarmingman]

Any company with assets conservatively at 25-30 million and cumulative debts at 5-8 million tops would be considered as very healthy in the current economic climate .
With improved skill mix and better governance at Board level we`ll come out of this stronger and still considerably richer than any other club in the league. And yes, we are invincible

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nK09cyL8Ihw/SMlht02tozI/AAAAAAAAAcA/1ZME3BRJAzI/s400/ostrich.jpg

[thischarmingman]

we laughed at Rovers when they made monumental f*ck up after monumental f*ck up after monumental f*ck up. We laughed at Shels too. We just laugh at Pats anyway.

Enjoy the moment lads. :ball:

To paraphrase Pastor Martin Niemoeller:

In Ireland they first came for the Shelbourne,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Shelbourne fan.

Then they came for Drogheda United,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Drogheda fan.

Then they came for the Cork City,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Cork fan.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up

:(

[osarusan]

In Ireland they first came for the Shelbourne,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Shelbourne fan.

Then they came for Drogheda United,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Drogheda fan.

Then they came for the Cork City,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Cork fan.

bloody barstooler.

[Bald Student]

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak upThere's always Pineapple Stu.

[pól-dcfc]

I hope to god that the figure of 428,555 includes Connors settlement because if this is not true that is shambolic. What are they thinking?

The accounts are until the end of November 08. And Connor's settlement was granted..... (drum roll please) on the 3rd of December.

That board need lined up against a wall. And so will Bohs members if they don't use their vote sensibly at the AGM.

[sonofstan]

That board need lined up against a wall. And so will Bohs members if they don't use their vote sensibly at the AGM.

Yes... ...

[jinxy lilywhite]

Diverting and all as this must be for some of the posters on here who will never get to see a set of audited accounts for their own clubs, apart from the faux shock/horror the reality is that Bohs is an asset rich club but one which has been negligently administered in the past four to five years (as if you all didn`t know). If it was to continue to be administered in the same manner we would be out of business by 2013. We will have a largely new Board in the next few months which should stop the haemorraging over the next two years.
Any company with assets conservatively at 25-30 million and cumulative debts at 5-8 million tops would be considered as very healthy in the current economic climate .
With improved skill mix and better governance at Board level we`ll come out of this stronger and still considerably richer than any other club in the league. And yes, we are invincible


You may way be an asset rich club but your short term liquidity is terrible. Borrowings are very high and while interest rates are low and interest repayments are low too. But they will rise soon inthe next 12 months and you will be under more pressure than you are already to make repayments. All well and good have big assets but you cash supply is ****e and those assets won't easy convert to cash when you need them.

[A face]

Yes... ...

sonofstan, do you know if the members have the ability to turn it around? I'm not saying if it will or not but just to know if there are realistic options available to sort this out?

[Shelsman]

The league needs a good swift kick in the hole, and i hate saying it but a club going out of business may be the only thing that would work.

Cobh Ramblers anyone?

OK, technically they still exist, but they are out of the LOI -so as a senior club they might as well not exist.

[marinobohs]

Granted bohs have big finanacial problems and the members WILL HAVE to act at the AGM but honestly getting lectures from Rovers (gone broke & STILL no ground) Shels (gone broke & 1st Div) Derry (St john Hume begging friendlies to survive not long ago) or Pats (Business plan - 3 mill wage bill to win SFA) Cork (far, far too much to list) need I go on ?

Bohs assets (Dalymount primarily) still way exceed what is owed even in these times. Only a small part of the ground is in dispute -FACT. We are by far the best team in the League and have Champions Lge and SETANTA to add to last years fixture list.

The fact is that no club in the league is in a great position and this clearly applies to Bohs amnd Yes we should be concerned. perhaps If the "preachers" on here looked after their own clubs then perhaps rovers/shels/cork/drogs would not have gone bust.

[Dodge]

Granted bohs have big finanacial problems and the members WILL HAVE to act at the AGM but honestly getting lectures from Rovers (gone broke & STILL no ground) Shels (gone broke & 1st Div) Derry (St john Hume begging friendlies to survive not long ago) or Pats (Business plan - 3 mill wage bill to win SFA) Cork (far, far too much to list) need I go on ?

The difference is that all these clubs have all taken corrective actions, even if it was forced upon them (even if your wage bill for pats is way, way, way overstated)

The other point to note is that Cork, Pats, Shels and Rovers acted wrecklessly at the helm of directors of a private company. While supporters may be complicit to the problems, they're not the cause of the problems

However Bohs are, and have always been, a members club. The people responsible for your financial mess are the members of your club, as you voted on these accounts every year, and you voted these people in.

[marinobohs]

as opposed to homeless Hoops living in a rented ground (still ?) with a crap team ? kidding themselves that they are getting somewhere ? Thanks but no thanks, Bohs will be around ,long after the homeless hoops are finally history.
By the way no member of our Board was convicted of football hooliganism can hoops say the same ?

[marinobohs]

"Your assets are worth nil"

presumably the type of accounting that has worked soooooooooo well at SRFC.

[bigmac]

Granted bohs have big finanacial problems and the members WILL HAVE to act at the AGM but honestly getting lectures from Rovers (gone broke & STILL no ground) Shels (gone broke & 1st Div) Derry (St john Hume begging friendlies to survive not long ago) or Pats (Business plan - 3 mill wage bill to win SFA) Cork (far, far too much to list) need I go on ?



Do you not think that these are precisely the people you should be listening to? :confused:

[marinobohs]

Will do, and perhaps you could stick to managing a small part time club and leave us to look after the best team in Ireland and a club that has NEVER gone broke and has NEVER been homeless :D

[Hibs4Ever]

Will do, and perhaps you could stick to managing a small part time club and leave us to look after the best team in Ireland and a club that has NEVER gone broke and has NEVER been homeless :D




Youy really do have your head in the sand don't you

[shantykelly]

nah, more like up his backside. land is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and this economic climate, that amounts to about zero. most property developers (the still solvent one anyway) will be looking to shift what they've already built, not gamble onfurther development that tha banks probably wont fund anyway. and location is everything, especially when the small piece of land that is sold off actually contains the all important access route.

[Macy]

The FAI won't let Bohs go to the wall. There'll be a deal done for the ground and then the FAI will get their wish of forcing a ground share with Shels. Different clubs, different rules.

[placid casual]

Will do, and perhaps you could stick to managing a small part time club and leave us to look after the best team in Ireland and a club that has NEVER gone broke and has NEVER been homeless :D

your name is not Gerry by any means is it ?
you should hook up with the esteemed Sheridan from this site.
in a matter of months you can both cry on each others shoulders about the great loss of your "beloved" club's. and compare chips no doubt:)

[BohDiddley]

However Bohs are, and have always been, a members club. The people responsible for your financial mess are the members of your club, as you voted on these accounts every year, and you voted these people in.

Almost every other contribution here is sneering, self-satisfied guff from people in glasshouses with memories which I am sure are a lot shorter than those of their erstwhile creditors.

But we can't argue with this. We are a members' club. It is a privilege to be part of such a club, but with that privilege comes responsibility.

[Mr A]

There is an inherent danger in some supporter owned clubs that if at some point things start going seriously wrong then fewer people want to step up to board/committee level. Naturally people don't want to get involved with a sinking or discredited ship, and the disillusionment drives people away and makes them wary. You may have plenty of people saying they want the incumbents out of office but when it comes down to replacing them you end up continuing with the same for sheer lack of other options.

There can come a point at clubs were a revolution is needed- but finding sufficient people with the time, energy and skills to entirely take over an operation as complex as an LOI club is tremendously difficult.

Bohs obviously need a revolution, and I hope they achieve it. (For the record, Harps need something approaching a revolution as well).

[Celdrog]

We are by far the best team in the League and have Champions Lge and SETANTA to add to last years fixture list.
We said that 12 months ago, it'll be a long time before we can say it again.:(

[sonofstan]

sonofstan, do you know if the members have the ability to turn it around? I'm not saying if it will or not but just to know if there are realistic options available to sort this out?

Voting out the board is the first step, and there are, for the first time in my time as a member (5 years), credible people running for most positions against the incumbents. The next step is up to that new board - but yes, we can save the club, I think.

[SkStu]

The ones I feel sorry for are the few lonely dissenting voices over on Gypoweb who obviously love their club but are hopelessly outnumbered by the morons.

thats such a misrepresentation its not even funny. :rolleyes: There are probably 2 posters out of a couple of hundred that support the board. But dont let the facts get in the way of your w@nkathon