Squad for Poland game

[jbyrne]

there is much of a muchness between those in the squad and those some here say should be in. trapp has been in charge less than 7 months and has had limited time to work with the players. what good would chopping and changing do for us?

you cant argue with 7 points from 9 at this stage so i'll go with trapps view on his squad.

andy reid has been very hot and cold for us. wow, he played well against an already qualified german team last october. big deal.. he was very poor 4 days later against cyprus.

so far so good as far as i'm concerned

[tetsujin1979]

Both Reid and O'Brien, it would appear, have decided not to be a part of the squad or have fallen foul of the management (temporarily?).O'Brien is injured at the moment, from http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/3835819.Megson_eyes_new_recruits/

O’Brien missed Saturday’s win at the KC Stadium with a thigh strain, picked up on his return to training after a hamstring injury

Do people here actually watch televised championship games?Yeah, I watch a few games.

From the beginning Trap said that success with his teams are not about playing the best football but the best teamwork, defend with 7 attack with 4 (sounds like a line from Animal farm).
all players are equal, but some are more equal than others

[Sligo Hornet]

somebody is reading too many business managment books

Obviously those that were written without the aid of a spell checker;)

[dr_peepee]

Teambuilding, organisation, structure, discipline, continuity, mentality .... need we go on? Trapattoni's "actions" are clearly defined and calculated.

You're right with continuity and organisation. I'm not ignoring the leaps we've made under Trapp but I'm not blind to his faults

I don't see how ignoring good work and progresss of players at club level (endless list) and alienating players from our limited pool (O'Brien, Reid) constitutes efforts in team building. It could also be argued that continuity breeds complacency. How often at every level have you heard a young player say that if they take care of things at club level International football will take care of itself (or something to that effect)

What mentality are you on about?? Winning?? We're still ropey in the latter stages of games. We were gifted a neutral venue against Georgia. So it's too early to cite that, for me anyway.

His actions aren't clearly defined. He omits Andy Reid citing the redundancy of an attacking central player in his system, and the need for defensive central players, yet includes Miller, Gibson and Andrews. All players used in advance midfield roles by everyone other than Trapp.... Where's the continuity in using players in unaccustomed positions??




As for not checking his options - how many players attended the training camp in Portugal, were included in the senior match squads and the B international match squad, and how many players start a football match?


I don't get ye on this point?? I think he's placed too much emphasis on a summer get together and a B match with multiple subs against Nottingham Forrest.




Evolution theory? :rolleyes: Trapattoni is building a team - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts :D. Try to put yourself in the position of Trapattoni and look at it from his perspective and not your own.

By all means attack the man if we lose a game or two (for the exact date as to when this will happen ask paul_oshea) but Trapattoni is demonstrating clear method behind his madness and I have no reason to question his abilities of leading us to a World Cup at this stage in time. And I'd have no problem in letting Trapattoni drive the train to Cork. :D

I'm not reserving the right to complain after the event. I'm expressing reservations now so I'm not cited as a Hypocrite when it goes tits up. I'm not happy with the efforts for backfilling the current first team and Plan B. I firmly believe we are going to get found out when Richie Dunne is suspended and Alex Bruce is Trapps Idea as our next best, based on a summer get together and a Friendly agasint a Forrest XI. If he exhausted avenues to arrive at that conclusion well then you'd have no choice but to accept it if not agree, but that has not been the case.

[geysir]

all players are equal, but some are more equal than others
I presume you were not the teacher's pet :)

There could well be rational football reasons why some players are favoured.
Trap's responsibility is to have a successful team, not an award ceremony for achievements made in club football.
The Italian expression "it's nothing personal" comes to mind.

[dr_peepee]

somebody is reading too many business managment books

Damn Straight...

[dr_peepee]

The Italian expression "it's nothing personal" comes to mind.

The Irish expression "Lazy B@st@rd" comes to my mind...

[kingdomkerry]

All these calls for championship players to come in to the squad confuses me. Surely if they are good enough for international football they would be good enough for the english premier league. Im not saying they are not or wont be in the future.

[Dr. Ogba]

All these calls for championship players to come in to the squad confuses me. Surely if they are good enough for international football they would be good enough for the english premier league. Im not saying they are not or wont be in the future.

ehhhhhh...are you implying that every national team has (or should have) players playing in the top flight?

[jbyrne]

ehhhhhh...are you implying that every national team has (or should have) players playing in the top flight?

my reading of it would be that if they are good enough for what trapp wants from his squad then they will get into the squad and if they are not they wont. simple as

[shakermaker1982]

All these calls for championship players to come in to the squad confuses me. Surely if they are good enough for international football they would be good enough for the english premier league. Im not saying they are not or wont be in the future.

O'Toole by the sounds of things will be off to Newcastle in the January transfer window. Dennis Wise according to reports in the guardian has been very impressed with the lads progress.

Noel Hunt will be playing in the PL with Reading next season - fingers crossed anyway.

Is it better for a players development to be rotting on the bench at some PL club (Folan, Miller, Whelan) or plying your trade with teams in the Championship every week (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt)? Being classified as a PL player because you have a squad number doesn't mean your necessarily a better play in my book.

[dr_peepee]

Is it better for a players development to be rotting on the bench at some PL club (Folan, Miller, Whelan) or plying your trade with teams in the Championship every week (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt)? Being classified as a PL player because you have a squad number doesn't mean your necessarily a better play in my book.

If only there was some way for Trapp to get a look at these players in a non competitve situation to judge for himself....

[geysir]

If only there was some way for Trapp to get a look at these players in a non competitve situation to judge for himself....
Did those players (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt) not turn up at Dalymount for the friendly against Forest?

[passinginterest]

Did those players (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt) not turn up at Dalymount for the friendly against Forest?

Don't think O'Toole was picked, Garvan got 20 minutes mostly out of position (I think Trap seems him in the Andy Reid mould of midfielders) and Hunt had to pull out with consussion.

[Sligo Hornet]

Don't think O'Toole was picked, Garvan got 20 minutes mostly out of position (I think Trap seems him in the Andy Reid mould of midfielders) and Hunt had to pull out with consussion.

That's his International career over then!;)

[dr_peepee]

Did those players (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt) not turn up at Dalymount for the friendly against Forest?

One of the other posters answered already...

That aside I don't think one B international (against forrest) and last summers get together is enough. He should be monitoring club form and making better use of friendlies. Not wholesale changes but at least exploring options in positions we have little or no depth in.

At best I think he's being over reliant on his minimal exposure to players. At worst I think he's just being lazy and indifferent. If we loose players on top of S Reid for any reason whatsoever and we don't qualify, Trapp will cite the loss of key players and it's difficult to argue against it. He picks up his few bob, goes back to Italy and the world keeps spinning.... I will counter that with a lack of effort on his part to insulate our selves from the impact of the loss of key players. That's just my opinion. I don't want it tagged with an "Andy Reid love-in"...

[tetsujin1979]

Getting away from Andy Reid's omission for a moment, I was at the B international, and I thought Bruce was the better of the two centre halves on the night, and deservedly wore the captain's arm band. Granted the opposition was poor, but you can only play what's in front of you.
In retrospect, his inclusion over Paddy McCarthy isn't that surprising.

[co. down green]

Decent displays from Whelan and Gibson last night.

Darron Gibson (http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={B4CEE8FA-9A47-47BC-B069-3F7A2F35DB70}&newsid=6622325&page=1): Composed and solid in the heart of the midfield, mopping up loose balls and passing well. One of the Reds’ best players on the night.

City midfielder Glenn Whelan (http://www.stokecityfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10310~1452375,00.html) is targeting a return to the first team after an outstanding individual display in the Carling Cup win over Rotherham last night.

[jbyrne]

Decent displays from Whelan and Gibson last night.


had heard whelan was good last night. two man of the match performances for Ireland followed by a less impressive performance in a game that we still won yet some on here wont give him a chance. he has been far more consistent for Ireland than andy reid ever was

[Kingdom]

had heard whelan was good last night. two man of the match performances for Ireland followed by a less impressive performance in a game that we still won yet some on here wont give him a chance. he has been far more consistent for Ireland than andy reid ever wasFair play jbyrne, good point well made!

[eirebhoy]

regarding reid, andy reid has started 2 games for sunderland this season.
7.

...

[On The Ball]

O'Toole by the sounds of things will be off to Newcastle in the January transfer window. Dennis Wise according to reports in the guardian has been very impressed with the lads progress.

Noel Hunt will be playing in the PL with Reading next season - fingers crossed anyway.

Is it better for a players development to be rotting on the bench at some PL club (Folan, Miller, Whelan) or plying your trade with teams in the Championship every week (O'Toole, Garvan, Noel Hunt)? Being classified as a PL player because you have a squad number doesn't mean your necessarily a better play in my book.
I concur.Those 3 player's are all under 25 and garvan and o'toole are only 20/21 i think.Playing football week in week out is better than sitting on a bench for a premier league club.

[irishfan86]

had heard whelan was good last night. two man of the match performances for Ireland followed by a less impressive performance in a game that we still won yet some on here wont give him a chance. he has been far more consistent for Ireland than andy reid ever was

Andy Reid, when selected, has been one of our most consistent players over the years.

His main problem has been injuries.

[Stuttgart88]

Nothing would please me more than seeing Whelan play well for Ireland but I thought the Cyprus game showed how lacking we are in cover for Steven Reid.

[jbyrne]

Andy Reid, when selected, has been one of our most consistent players over the years.


sure so have i........ when selected

have a look back at his performances for us and you will see decent performances widely dispersed among a lot of average ones. however, i still see a role for him in the squad

[Dr. Ogba]

sure so have i........ when selected

have a look back at his performances for us and you will see decent performances widely dispersed among a lot of average ones. however, i still see a role for him in the squad


selective memory there, any time Reid had been picked in the previous campaign he had pretty much run the show for us in midfield. He's a player that makes things happen, these types of players tend to have their off day aswell but can generally do things that guys like Whelan or Gibson can only dream of...that's why we need him in the team...

Sure if you're talking about consistency Whelan has played in 3 games so far and has played poorly in one third of them already if you want to argue it that way...

[Morbo]

I think Reid is a bit overrated by some on here and I definitely wouldn't consider him one of out most consistant performers, I remember him being pretty mediocre in that crucial game 2nd game against the Czechs and being **** poor against Cyprus granted he has had some very good games too but I certainly wouldn't describe him as one of our most consistant. That being said I think he is easily good enough to be in the squad and really should have played in this upcomming friendly so there must have being some falling out between Trap and Reid.

Overall a disappointing selection, how Long can be in the team before Hunt is beyond me and the other dodgy decisions to leave out the likes of Carsley, Delap, McCarthy(just to tie him up) etc

[jbyrne]

Sure if you're talking about consistency Whelan has played in 3 games so far and has played poorly in one third of them already if you want to argue it that way...

would still be one third less than reids poor games for us

[eirebhoy]

would still be one third less than reids poor games for us
Under Staunton or overall? If you think 2/3 of his overall performances for Ireland were poor you've a very bad memory.

18-11-2003 Ireland 3-0 Canada
18-02-2004 Ireland 0-0 Brazil
31-03-2004 Ireland 2-1 Czech Rep
28-04-2004 Poland 0-0 Ireland
27-05-2004 Ireland 1-0 Romania
02-06-2004 Jamaica 0-1 Ireland
05-06-2004 Holland 0-1 Ireland
18-08-2004 Ireland 1-1 Bulgaria
04-09-2004 Ireland 3-0 Cyprus
08-09-2004 Switzerland 1-1 Ireland
09-10-2004 France 0-0 Ireland
13-10-2004 Ireland 2-0 Faroe Islands
09-02-2005 Ireland 1-0 Portugal
04-06-2005 Ireland 2-2 Israel
08-06-2005 Faroe Islands 0-2 Ireland
17-08-2005 Ireland 1-2 Italy
07-09-2005 Ireland 0-1 France
12-10-2005 Ireland 0-0 Switzerland
--
24-05-2006 Ireland 0-1 Chile
11-10-2006 Ireland 1-1 Czech Rep
15-11-2006 Ireland 5-0 San Marino
12-09-2007 Czech Rep 1-0 Ireland
13-10-2007 Ireland 0-0 Germany
17-10-2007 Ireland 1-1 Cyprus
17-11-2007 Wales 2-2 Ireland

Overall, his 18 games under Kerr was probably one of the best starts to an Ireland career that any of the current squad had. He had 3 good and 3 not so good games under Stan.

[jbyrne]

Under Staunton or overall? If you think 2/3 of his overall performances for Ireland were poor you've a very bad memory.

18-11-2003 Ireland 3-0 Canada
18-02-2004 Ireland 0-0 Brazil
31-03-2004 Ireland 2-1 Czech Rep
28-04-2004 Poland 0-0 Ireland
27-05-2004 Ireland 1-0 Romania
02-06-2004 Jamaica 0-1 Ireland
05-06-2004 Holland 0-1 Ireland
18-08-2004 Ireland 1-1 Bulgaria
04-09-2004 Ireland 3-0 Cyprus
08-09-2004 Switzerland 1-1 Ireland
09-10-2004 France 0-0 Ireland
13-10-2004 Ireland 2-0 Faroe Islands
09-02-2005 Ireland 1-0 Portugal
04-06-2005 Ireland 2-2 Israel
08-06-2005 Faroe Islands 0-2 Ireland
17-08-2005 Ireland 1-2 Italy
07-09-2005 Ireland 0-1 France
12-10-2005 Ireland 0-0 Switzerland
--
24-05-2006 Ireland 0-1 Chile
11-10-2006 Ireland 1-1 Czech Rep
15-11-2006 Ireland 5-0 San Marino
12-09-2007 Czech Rep 1-0 Ireland
13-10-2007 Ireland 0-0 Germany
17-10-2007 Ireland 1-1 Cyprus
17-11-2007 Wales 2-2 Ireland

Overall, his 18 games under Kerr was probably one of the best starts to an Ireland career that any of the current squad had. He had 3 good and 3 not so good games under Stan.

what does listing the results in those matches prove?:confused:
one of my memories is, for example, that he was very good against cyprus (3-0) but 4 days later poor away v switzerland (1-1). another is that he was good v germany last october but anonymous 4 days later v cyprus

[eirebhoy]

what does listing the results in those matches prove?:confused:
To look through the list and realise that he was not poor in 2/3 of those games. Far from it.

[jbyrne]

To look through the list and realise that he was not poor in 2/3 of those games. Far from it.

all a matter of opinion really

[tetsujin1979]

McGeady not even on the bench today VS the Accies, surely he'll be pulled out of the squad?
my guess is that Hoolahan would be the replacement

[richieos]

noel hunt in and suddenly the squad looks much better..

[co. down green]

McGeady out and Hunt in.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1116/ireland1.html

[zenokelly]

noel hunt in and suddenly the squad looks much better..

At least we know the management team know who he is now. :ball:

[rambler14]

I wonder if Il Trap will make use of his subs???:rolleyes:

[tetsujin1979]

At least we know the management team know who he is now. :ball:
We already knew that, he was called into the B squad, but had to pull out with concussion

Was thinking that Hunt for McGeady is a bit of a strange swap, a striker for a midfielder. I thought Trap would have brought in Scannell or Reid for McGeady.
with that in mind I expect the team to line out


Given
Foley Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
Duff Whelan Gibson S.Hunt
Keane Doyle
with possibly Andrews coming in for either Whelan or Gibson

[richieos]

il be dissapointed if andrews doesnt start this match, very impressive again yesterday

[Closed Account]

With Keane out now also, the Hunt callup is probably to replace him.
Probably the right time to call up Reid now, and play him off Doyle, if
thats the only role Trap sees for him. Don't think it will happen though.


Given
Foley Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
Duff Whelan Gibson S.Hunt
N.Hunt Doyle

[eirebhoy]

I can't see him playing Folan and Doyle together, it's one or the other. So that leaves either Stokes or an all Reading front 2.

[geysir]

McGeady out and Hunt in.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1116/ireland1.html
I'd say its more that Hunt is called in for Robbie and Trap is mulling over who to replace McGeady with. Going by the sounds of silence, it wont be Andy Reid.
Possibly won't call anybody up to replace McGeady.

[shakermaker1982]

I'd like to see a central midfield pairing of Gibson and Andrews this Wednesday. The former received a lot of OTT post match criticism from a certain pundit. I hope the Trap sticks with him.

Noel must surely start with Doyle? A partnership that is flourishing at club level needs testing out at international level and was something I've wanted before the squad annoucement.

I'm guessing Hunt and Duff will be on the wings - we don't have anybody else unless Reidy earns a late reprieve.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Noel must surely start with Doyle? A partnership that is flourishing at club level needs testing out at international level and was something I've wanted before the squad annoucement.

Good shout that - with very few established options up front testing a quick fix with those two as a partnership is a good idea in case Keano gets injured during the campaign, especially as familiarity at club level helped strengthen the 1990 team.

Would also be interested to see Sheridan get a call up - appreciate that it's premature - however his height is a dimension that we have been lacking since Quinny and looks a different type of striker to Keane and Doyle, so might be an idea to throw him in sooner rather than later to give us a wider array of styles.

[Stuttgart88]

As usual, only The Examiner is on the ball wit regard to reporting the full content of the press conferences and addressing the questions being asked by the more interested / more curious amongst us. According to today's article in The Examiner, Trap addresses all the main absentees either directly or indirectly ("a printed list of players scouted").

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=soccer-qqqa=sport-qqqid=77628-qqqx=1.asp

Passionate Trapattoni lays out selection decisions

By Liam Mackey
NOT SO much a press conference as a one-man show.

Giovanni Trapattoni launched an impassioned defence of his selection policy yesterday, dealing with the Andy Reid, Joey O’Brien and Rory Delap issues. There was no shortage of straight news — Robbie Keane misses Wednesday’s game against Poland, returning to Anfield with a shoulder injury, and Celtic’s Aiden McGeady is also out, with a calf injury.

That opens the door for Reading’s Noel Hunt — brother of Stephen — who has received his first call-up to the senior Irish squad. However, Trapattoni arrived for the press conference with a printed list of Irish players who have already been picked or scouted or who will be watched over the coming weeks and months (including, he said, Celtic’s Cillian Sheridan and Hamilton’s James McCarthy, though he added that he feels he already has enough young players in the squad for Wednesday).

After a brief opening address, he prompted: “Now surely, someone will ask to me: why missing Andy Reid? Why no Carsley? No Joey O’ Brien?”

Answering his own question, he went on: “We are building a team, a structure, a solid core of young and senior players. Four or five months ago we didn’t know Gibson, Andrews, Folan — now they are in the squad and I want to see more of them.”

Then, asked directly if Andy Reid’s career was over, Trapattoni replied: “No. I spoke to Andy Reid before the last game. You all know, in Germany I discussed with him a little situation in the night. It’s okay, it’s no problem. The players going in the pub at night is for me no problem.

“But I said to him to continue (with Ireland) because in the future it’s possible (he plays). But I don’t wish to change immediately the system. So I don’t forget Andy Reid, like I don’t forget Carsley. It’s early, we need one year to develop the squad. The qualification campaign is long and there can be injuries and red cards. I have 35 years in international football. I want to see all the players. But I have a system, and until now it has worked.”

Trapattoni went on to suggest that, since he intended to look at other players on Wednesday, he would be doing Reid no favours by bringing him in.

“Andy Reid has a particular character. He values himself a lot. And when he doesn’t play, he’s sad. I know. To win, we need enthusiasm and a smile. There are other players who still smile when they don’t play. Over a number of games you see the character of the players. I wish to help him. He plays the position at Sunderland like Stephen Ireland does at Manchester City. But at the moment our system doesn’t include this position. I wish to see other players. Only when these young players play, will they become stronger.”

Asked about Bolton’s Joey O’ Brien, Trapattoni said: “It’s like (Stephen) Ireland saying he doesn’t want to come back. If your wife goes, you find with another lady — that’s life.

“The Ireland players when they come here are happy because they are playing for their country. I was happy when I played with Italy. And they must be happy to be with the national team — whether they are on the bench or not.

“I want players to express their opinions. But it’s more important what they show me on the pitch. It’s important the players earn congratulations, not Trapattoni. That is my philosophy. I don’t talk bad about my players in the paper. If I treated the players badly then they have all the right to say bad things about me but I don’t treat them badly. They are professionals. I have known over 1,000 players from many countries — from South America to Germany to Israel — and I have always had a good professional relationship with those players. What is crucial are the results. Maybe I make mistakes but I don’t prejudge people personally. It’s nothing personal.”

Trapattoni was at Old Trafford on Saturday for Manchester United’s 5-0 trouncing of Stoke.

“Before the game, I spoke with Alex (Ferguson). He asked: ‘What are doing here Giovanni?’ ‘I wish to see the Ireland players.’ ‘Oh yes, sure’ With 30 minutes to go he plays Gibson. Maybe if I don’t speak with him, maybe he wouldn’t have or maybe he would.”

Regarding Stoke’s Rory Delap... “It would be humiliating for a player to go into the national team just because of his long throw. Please. He’s 32. Okay, it’s not old but in that position at the moment we have a new energy. Sure, yesterday, I saw his first throw and it was dangerous for the goalkeeper but football is about 90 minutes.”

Repeatedly, Trapattoni returned to the theme of the spirit and character he wants from his players: “It’s possible to win with class, or with the Irish way, the Roy Keane way.”

And he concluded with a defiant summing up of his managerial philosophy on the supremacy of the group over the individual.

“I live the game, I want to win,” he said. “In my international experience, the team with the right mentality wins.

“Sometimes (Roberto) Baggio didn’t play in the national team in Italy, because international football is a different game.”

[geysir]

If smiles gets you kudos then KK will be around for while longer.

Its pretty much as I thought, except that Joey has done a runner, it would appear.
Good news conference, the one i liked was “Before the game, I spoke with Alex"

[paul_oshea]

does anyone think that he went to the game because alex was going to play him or alex played him because trap was at the game?!

[irishfan86]

does anyone think that he went to the game because alex was going to play him or alex played him because trap was at the game?!

It was probably a case of Ferguson thinking to himself that he may as well play Gibson if the game was over with anyway, just to please Trap.

I'm sure if the game was on the line that Ferguson wouldn't cater to Trapatonni, but after an hour the match was done and he probably thought, may as well throw him on.

It's an ideal situation to throw a youngster on for his premier league debut anyway, so it's not as if he hurt United.

Good of Trap to put a good word in for him though with Ferguson, but I don't know how much Gibson will appreciate the comment "Maybe if I don’t speak with him, maybe he wouldn’t have [played]."

With the injury crisis at United in the centre, maybe Gibson can force himself into contention, but I sadly admit that I think that would only be a temporary situation.

[paul_oshea]

It was probably a case of Ferguson thinking to himself that he may as well play Gibson if the game was over with anyway, just to please Trap.

I'm sure if the game was on the line that Ferguson wouldn't cater to Trapatonni, but after an hour the match was done and he probably thought, may as well throw him on.

It's an ideal situation to throw a youngster on for his premier league debut anyway, so it's not as if he hurt United.

Good of Trap to put a good word in for him though with Ferguson, but I don't know how much Gibson will appreciate the comment "Maybe if I don’t speak with him, maybe he wouldn’t have [played]."

With the injury crisis at United in the centre, maybe Gibson can force himself into contention, but I sadly admit that I think that would only be a temporary situation.

eh, i think Ferguson would be the one unhappy with the comment!

[Razors left peg]

There are some of his decisions that I dont particularly agree with,such as Andy Reid, but when he speaks you cant help but respect him. At least he has the belief in himself to do what he thinks is right and when he explains his reasoning behind his decisions I find myself agreeing with him....That must come across in the dressing room too, which leads to the players having confidence in what he is trying to get them to do. It really is such a long way from the Staunton era.