Montenegro V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 10th September 2008 - World Cup 2010 Q

[lionelhutz]

if he didnt play reid against georgia cant see him playing him against better opposition if hes going on the theory that hunt will work harder tracking back. id drop hunt but dont think he will bring in reid on wed.

Ya I'm pretty certain he'll start the same 11 barring injury. Here's hoping though...

[the-blue-harp]

are people getting a little carried away and over rating andy reid here with all the media hype surrounding him??

[paul_oshea]

are you asking a question or giving us an answer?!

[lionelhutz]

are people getting a little carried away and over rating andy reid here with all the media hype surrounding him??

I don't think anyone's getting carried away. Most informed fans don't rely on what the media say - rather they judge a player on the games they've seen him play.

And of what i've seen of Andy Reid in the past couple of years especially, he's without doubt good enough to be in the starting line up for Ireland - whether it be in centre mid, left side of midfield or behind a striker.

[SkStu]

with this group commonly accepted as the Group of Death, i think a win is absolutely necessary in Montengro. If all the teams continue taking points each other then this could be the group where the 2nd place team doesnt make it. In our own interests we need to make this group a two horse race as soon as possible (that is working on the assumption that we actually have the ability) and 3 points in Montenegro would go a great way towards achieving that.

Fingers crossed...

[jbyrne]

The group imo would quickly become a 3 horse race - us, Italy and Bulgaria.

cyprus will have a say in this group before the end. they are strong at home and getting better on the road. we cant keep putting their decent results down to poor performances from their more illustrious opponents each time. their football is on the way up illustrated by one of their clubs qualifying for the champions lge this season

[newbie]

sorry to go off topic lads but how is the qualifiers working again? all teams top the group qualify (obviously) but then what?

[musicinmouth]

8 of the 9 2nd best teams get through to a play-off... i think scotland's group has a team less in it, so hopefully it's the 2nd team in their group that will miss out...

[irishfan86]

8 of the 9 2nd best teams get through to a play-off... i think scotland's group has a team less in it, so hopefully it's the 2nd team in their group that will miss out...

Because one group has one less team, the teams in the other groups will not have their points gained against the last place team in their group considered as part of their total when it comes to choosing which 2nd place teams qualify for the playoffs.

[Fergie's Son]

If we realistically want to qualify then a win is a must. Assuming we drop points awy to Italy and Bulgaria (two draws would be great results) we need to pick up points here. Bulgaria drawing (and almost losing) suggests that we'll have our work cut out for us. A draw isn't the end of the world though. Can't see us winning it but can see us getting a credible draw.

[tetsujin1979]

Steven Reid sits out training as a precaution: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3550

[Razors left peg]

Steven Reid sits out training as a precaution: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3550

cant help but worry when ya see something like that

[Bottle of Tonic]

I'm dreading the thought of another eastern European mis-adventure, with the home side starting out all guns blazing, shots from distance, our defence all at sea, mishap falling over calamity.
IMO we got a massive get out of jail free card with the neutral venue in Mainz. This allowed the game to be a simple 11 vs 11 on a football pitch, and one of the dodgiest trips in Euro football negated. We could take control of the game like we did, and play it on our terms. Don't see this happening on Wednesday. But I believe in the manager and the set-up so far, and maybe he'll continue to surprise us. Another early goal would be lovely.

1-1.

[kingdomkerry]

Reid has developed in to an excellent midfielder. Irelands best player in our last couple of games. Fingers crossed he'll be ok.

I predicted 2-1 for the Georgia game with Doyle and Keane the scorers. Close.

Im gonna go for a 1-0 victorty on wednesday. We looked fairly well organised on Saturday and I think we can keep a clean sheet provided there are no silly mistakes.

Robbie Keane to score in a tight anxious game and Irelands first real away win in god only knows how long.

[Legendary Bear]

I agree with kingdom kerry. A tight game, Robbie to score , back 4 and Given to defend well again. One worry would be Kilbane with the blinkers on. There were times against Georgia he seemed a little unsure of himself with time on the ball. Solid and fearless when attacking it though.

[FarBeag]

I think it’s very difficult to forecast this one. My heart tells me that we will get a result over there in an extremely tight and exciting game. My head tells me that we will be lucky to get away with a draw. There are no easy games anymore and Montenegro is one of the more difficult teams in the so called minnows of football. There will be a very passionate and hostile crowd behind them. I just feel very uneasy and anxious over this match compared to any of the others in the group. I really hope my heart wins this battle.

[Claret Murph]

Trap will not change a winning team unless Reid fails to make it which I don't think he will so same to start for me . Before the first game I had us down for a 1-1 draw it could be that or 2-2 and so draw it will be , again 4 points from our first two games is a good return .

[drummerboy]

Don't know why people keep dismissing Cyprus. They hammered us last year and embarassed us in Lansdowne. They also have a club team that qualified for the champions league, something we have never managed to do. So Beware.

Tomorrows game looks like a draw to me. A win would be a fabulous result.

[Duggie]

i think were giving this montenegro team a bit to much respect. yes it will be difficult but i havent seen this team play yet. if we do our stuff on the day im sure we will be more than capable of getting a result. maybe bulgaria arent as good as we think. we have to believe in our own ability. ive seen vucinivic play for roma and he isnt prolific in front of goal. remember a few years ago we faced a far tougher game when they were still yugoslavia and were unlucky to be beaten 1-0. lets not go overboard on this team.

[amaccann]

I think we're fearing them because we know so little about them, beyond the abilities of 1 or 2 of the players. We shouldn't go into the game worrying what they will do, rather we should fly on in & play our own game; you can only give a team so much respect.

2-0 to Ireland

[seanfhear]

Don't know why people keep dismissing Cyprus. They hammered us last year and embarassed us in Lansdowne. They also have a club team that qualified for the champions league, something we have never managed to do. So Beware.

Tomorrows game looks like a draw to me. A win would be a fabulous result.
A lot of people just cannot come to terms with the fact that cyprus actually have a good team at the moment.I suppose just because historically they were the whipping boys they just cant get their heads around it.Yes hopefully we will beat them but just expecting to beat them when Italy just about did is disrespectful.Our media is becoming just like the british media i.e.not show respect to opposition teams.I suppose it is not surprising when so much of it is british owned and the irish journalists are doing what their british counterparts do to climb the greasy pole.

[youngirish]

I think we'll win tomorrow or alternatively we'll be the better team, be controlling the game for most of the match, deserve the win then give away an equaliser in the last couple of minutes to allow Montenegro to get an undeserving draw after Trap makes some shocking substitutions and brings on some dodgy players (McShane and Miller for a start).

It helps us that their manager appears to be totally clueless about us by suggesting we never give up which as we all know is perhaps our greatest weakness, we always seem to give up in the last 10 minutes.

However, if Stephen Reid is injured and Trap plays Miller instead (why we have way better midfielders?) we'll be beaten.

[Duggie]

think reid will be fine - dont think there's to much concern over him.

[Stuttgart88]

The build up to Montenegro is a bit like the trip to Israel in March '05. Fear rather than cautious respect was the prevailing attitude before that game.

[paul_oshea]

fear for the same reason now, as was then, we knew if we came away with a win in that game we were in control of our destiny. Just like now, we would be in a serious position with two wins away from home and then cyprus at home. Its always better to have points in the bag than games in hand in International football. 9 points from the first 3 games especially when 2 of those were away from home, make a huge difference.

[Stuttgart88]

In these small groups it's important to outperform your direct opponents on a game to game basis. In a 40 game club season it's not as important on how you & your direct rivals do away to, say Aston Villa, but as Bulgaria has already dropped 2 points in Montenegro then that leaves us the opportunity to outperform them by 2 points. It's sounds simplistic but that's how it is. So far Bulgaria can't improve on our haul from Georgia away. That's how I look at it anyway!

[Montenegrin]

I think we'll win tomorrow or alternatively we'll be the better team, be controlling the game for most of the match, deserve the win then give away an equaliser in the last couple of minutes to allow Montenegro to get an undeserving draw after Trap makes some shocking substitutions and brings on some dodgy players (McShane and Miller for a start).






In my opinion you can only dream of controlling the game for most of the match.We always have at least 5 man upfront and never was under pressure in friendly matches we played so far and match against Bulgaria.Against Bulgaria we had 58% possesion at the end.Also,one of the reasons we ended up 2-2 draw is that our players tried to score third goal and did not come back to defence.On the other hand Ireland is much better team than Bulgaria.I am sure of that.Every Montenegrin player said the same on the press conference.You are of course favorites.Every one of your players play in one of the best European leagues.Majority of Bulgarians on the other hands play for crapy teams like Levski,Sofia...That of course does not mean that you will beat us.3-2 in our favor.
p.s.I dont know why are you comparing this Montenegrin team with Yugoslavia and Serbia and Montenegro since our most important players were to young to play back than.We,undoubtly,have better attack than Serbia today and they have better defence.On the other hand it was always like that;)(Predrag Mijatovic and Dejan Savicevic are Montenegrins).

[mypost]

remember that we have two champions league winners in our first 11, irrespective of whether one of them happens to be John O'Shea. People less knowledgeable about our team probably pick him out as our outstanding player

:D:D:D

[NeilMcD]

Due to heat and the ability of Montenegro and draw would not be a bad result and a win would be a fantastic result, itwould better the game on Saturday due to conditions and the fact that Montenegro will prove to be a better team than Georgia. This is going to be a tough group and one that we could finish last in if Staunton was in charge as every team seems capable of taking points of one another.

[youngirish]

In my opinion you can only dream of controlling the game for most of the match.We always have at least 5 man upfront and never was under pressure in friendly matches we played so far and match against Bulgaria.Against Bulgaria we had 58% possesion at the end.Also,one of the reasons we ended up 2-2 draw is that our players tried to score third goal and did not come back to defence.
More possesion doesn't necessarily mean you are controlling the game. If we were 1-0 up (as we were against the Georgians) and your team are having most of the possesion but failing to test our goalkeeper while we looked dangerous on the counter attack then I would state in that situation that we were the team in control of the game. However if you were raining shots in on our goal then you would be clearly controlling the game. Possesion is only one aspect and not the most important one at that.

[finnpark]

Anyone know what type of system Montenegro play?

Serbia play a very defensive team but as Montenegro conceded 9 goals in their last 3 matches I assume its more attacking? If it is I think it will suit Eire tomorrow evening as Trap plays good counter attacking football.

Their last match against Bulgaria also suggests that they are very poor defensively as Bulgaria seemed to push the ball through them up the middle.

They do seem to be dangerous from set pieces including free kicks so Ireland should not give too manya way around the box and stop giving away corners if possible.

I think the likes of McGeady and Hunt will play well and could even score as they will be able to run at them. Keane also should get another great chance, lets hope he can take it this time.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/0906/montenegro_bulgaria.html

[mypost]

There appears to me to be a hint of "supergretna" to Montenegrin's posts.

Montenegro have played 1 competitive game at home against average opposition. We may not be a lot better, but are unbeaten under Trappattoni so far, and will be a tough nut to crack. We have quality players and are capable of winning this one 2 or 3-0, as much as we're capable of bottling it. They have to learn to walk before they can run.

[paul_oshea]

i like montengrin as s/he offers isnight into montenegro and his country as a whole, but what is it with continentals who are always way more cocky about their teams than we are, and seemed to underestimate us everytime?! I really dont get it.

Saying that I am expecting a draw tomorrow, and would be over the moon if im wrong and we win.

[Duggie]

miller has never gone on to show his potential but i agree he gets treated unfairly here. i think hes decent and dont really have a problem with him in the squad.

[Montenegrin]

I am not underestimating you at all.I am trying to be objective.You think that you will be able to pressure us,I think that it will not happen,we will see who is right.I am aware that this game could go either way.We might beat you 3-0,4-0,as you can beat us,but most probably it will be similar to Montenegro-Bulgaria game.Mirko Vučinić,Stevan Jovetić and Simon Vukčević are all capable of scoring fine goals,but there are some other players also capable of scoring.For example our reserve striker Radomir Djalović(who remainds me much of Robbie Keane both with apperiance and style of play)played three matches and scored 3 goals.There are also middlefieldersBogavac,Drinčić,Bošković and Burzanović who are very capable of scoring goals.Taking this in consideration together with our attacking style of play that is why I am so confident that we will score.Off course,as I said before,I may be wrong.
We are not Malta,you know;).We will see who was cocky and who was not after the game.I will be expecting appologises:-).

[youngirish]

People around here seem to be treating Miller somewhat unfairly.
He's a decent stopgap player, in that he's not going to win you games or lose them for you. There's no reason to treat him like an Alan Quinn or a Paul McShane in that he could be a liability. He's an average player who's at least as good and probably better than Whelan, Potter and Gibson and should be respected as such. I never hear anyone having a go at those 3 yet it's always in vogue to criticise Liam Miller.

I've had a go at Whelan numerous times before but he's a far better player than Miller so he doesn't deserve as much stick. Gibson is young and should also develop into a far better player than Miller.

I've slated Potter on this site as a very limited player numerous times before particularly when he was flavour of the month a few seasons ago after he had a couple of good games in the States. Fortunately at present he's nowhere near the squad so I don't mention him.

Miller is a very limited player and offers nothing in midfield when he plays for Ireland and we'd undoubtedly struggle if he plays there with Whelan against half decent opposition like Montenegro.

[paul_oshea]

but nobody has been really cocky, most have said a draw, and a few have said a 2-1 win to ireland possibly. We are not cocky and we certainly aren't underestimating you either, given that we know nothing about you, its a fear of the unknown more than anything :)

[finnpark]

I am not underestimating you at all.I am trying to be objective.You think that you will be able to pressure us,I think that it will not happen,we will see who is right.I am aware that this game could go either way.We might beat you 3-0,4-0,as you can beat us,but most probably it will be similar to Montenegro-Bulgaria game.Mirko Vučinić,Stevan Jovetić and Simon Vukčević are all capable of scoring fine goals,but there are some other players also capable of scoring.For example our reserve striker Radomir Djalović(who remainds me much of Robbie Keane both with apperiance and style of play)played three matches and scored 3 goals.There are also middlefieldersBogavac,Drinčić,Bošković and Burzanović who are very capable of scoring goals.Taking this in consideration together with our attacking style of play that is why I am so confident that we will score.Off course,as I said before,I may be wrong.
We are not Malta,you know;).We will see who was cocky and who was not after the game.I will be expecting appologises:-).

A load of rubbish.

Montenegro is the weak part of Srbia and Mantenegro. No chance of a Montenegro win and probably not a draw either. If Trap cannot beat this shower he should resign.

On the other hand Serbia are capable of getting a result against France. Come on Serbia!!

[Stuttgart88]

People around here seem to be treating Miller somewhat unfairly.
He's a decent stopgap player, in that he's not going to win you games or lose them for you. There's no reason to treat him like an Alan Quinn or a Paul McShane in that he could be a liability. He's an average player who's at least as good and probably better than Whelan, Potter and Gibson and should be respected as such. I never hear anyone having a go at those 3 yet it's always in vogue to criticise Liam Miller.I think a sensible consensus is being developed here that Whelan is there to shield the defence and also to sit deep and receive the ball from the defence and to keep it simple.

Miller has his merits - taking and giving simple passes for example - though I have an intense dislike for him. I think he's a big time Charlie who doesn't realise how privileged he is. I also don't see Miller as capable of shielding anything. He has a track record of giving away silly frees in dangerous areas and I think Whelan protects the ball under pressure better than Miller. Miller has been given so many chnaces and he's yet to take any of them in my opinion.

In fairness, Miller has often been used wide right which is plain dumb - just because he's right footed and a midfielder doesn't mean he can play right midfield. Miller played a blinder at the Emirates last year (despite conceding his customary needless foul near the box) but this was in a 5 man midfield, well anchored by more solid players.

If Trap sees Miller as capable of providing defensive cover i'd be horrified. He'sa midget for a start. I thought Whelan had the ball less in the second half on Saturday but I did notice him winning the ball in the air - and well - a few times. Miller could never do this.

[mypost]

I am not underestimating you at all.I am trying to be objective.You think that you will be able to pressure us,I think that it will not happen,we will see who is right.I am aware that this game could go either way.We might beat you 3-0,4-0,as you can beat us,but most probably it will be similar to Montenegro-Bulgaria game.We are not Malta,you know;).I will be expecting appologises:-).

We have a very experienced team, and we have players in good club teams, who have to deal with this kind of opposition all the time.

Montenegro have played 1 game competitively, we've played them since 1934. We know they're not Malta, but we're not either. We are hopeful of a good result, but not expecting it the way Montenegro are.

[Duggie]

Im beginning to dislike montenegro now.........

[youngirish]

Im beginning to dislike montenegro now.........
In fairness Montenegrin has been fairly kind about our team (he thinks we are better than Bulgaria where I'd state we are at a similar level) but I believe he is guilty (as perhaps many of us are) of overestimating the abilites of his own team based on their last performance. Yes they have had some good friendly results but they've also had some desperate ones (4-0 to Romania sticks out in my mind).

I also think that the opposition fans and players have a tendency to write us off due to our previous 3 years of poor form under the clown that was Staunton who was in any reasonable person's eyes guilty of desperately underachieving with the resources at his disposal. We should be far tougher opposition now under a decent manager even though the personnel on the pitch has remained largely unchanged.

Player for player we are far better than Montenegro on paper even though they possibly have a couple of players that would get into our team. We have arguably the best goalkeeper in one of the top three leagues in the World. A 25 million pound striker. The hottest property in the SPL. A Champions League winning full back. A regular starter for the Champions League winners and one of the top ten defenders in the Premiership (Dunne). We should ideally be beating the likes of Montenegro. Whether we will or not who knows?

[paul_oshea]

theres always two sides to every coin, but on this forum people make me feel we are world beaters, whilst at the same time, make us very average.

YI, you most be taking the chill pills big time lately. very moderate and balanced posts.

[finnpark]

Gavrillo Princip once said:

I am a Serb, for Serbia I will do anything.

That was after killing King Ferdinand and I think it led to World War 1.

These Serbs liek to fight :D

the Montenegros are weak, they don't know how to win. They are like Welsh people, take any crap.

[Montenegrin]

Gavrillo Princip once said:

I am a Serb, for Serbia I will do anything.

That was after killing King Ferdinand and I think it led to World War 1.

These Serbs liek to fight :D

the Montenegros are weak, they don't know how to win. They are like Welsh people, take any crap.



I know that you are trying to provoke me now,but you got that wrong.We are the fighting ones.We were the only Balkan state never conquered by Otoman empire.As a proof I can give you this poem by Lord Tennison about Montenegro(from:http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/tennyson-montenegro.html)

[Tappan Introduction] In the Middle Ages, Montenegro was under the control of Serbia; but when the battle of Kossovo laid Serbia at the mercy of the Turks, in 1389, Montenegro became independent; and independent it has remained. It is a country of warriors, who were well prepared to play their part in the late Balkan War.

THEY rose to where their sovereign eagle sails,
They kept their faith, their freedom, on the height,
Chaste, frugal, savage, arm'd by day and night
Against the Turk; whose inroad nowhere scales
Their headlong passes, but his footstep fails,
And red with blood the Crescent reels from fight
Before their dauntless hundreds, in prone flight
By thousands down the crags and thro' the vales.
O smallest among peoples! rough rock-throne
Of Freedom! warriors beating back the swarm
Of Turkish Islam for five hundred years,
Great Tsernogora#! never since thine own
Black ridges drew the cloud and brake the storm
Has breathed a race of mightier mountaineers.

#Tsernogora or Crna Gora means Montenegro on Serbian
Also you can simply read history of Montenegro:
http://www.montenet.org/history/history.htm

[geysir]

Steven Reid is a serious doubt (up to 1 hour before the game) otherwise unchanged team from Trap.
He whose name dared not be mentioned is lined up to replace him.

[geysir]

I know that you are trying to provoke me now,but you got that wrong.
You got that spot on.
Don't pay any attention to what that troll writes.

[Montenegrin]

A load of rubbish.

Montenegro is the weak part of Srbia and Mantenegro. No chance of a Montenegro win and probably not a draw either. If Trap cannot beat this shower he should resign.

On the other hand Serbia are capable of getting a result against France. Come on Serbia!!



Ok,fair enough,it is your opinion.
You think that there is no chance of us beating you-you might be supprised,what else can I say?
Just to let you know that I have great deal of respect towards Ireland and Irish people(Scotish too).In fact,Irish people is one of the people I like the best.I know a lot about your history and your strugle against English ocuppation.I know that you were starved to death and killed in great numbers.You cant imagine how similar our histories have been.If somebody is into history please read something about Montenegrin before you write something like finnpark did.In fact,you could call us Balkan Irish and Scots.
It is offending when people write something that they know nothing about.Please imagine why do we have just 700 000 population.Constant
wars for freedom have something to do with that.
Sorry for going into politics-I had to reply on Finnparks post.

[Supreme feet]

I know that you are trying to provoke me now,but you got that wrong.We are the fighting ones.We were the only Balkan state never conquered by Otoman empire.As a proof I can give you this poem by Lord Tennison about Montenegro...

[INDENT]THEY rose to where their sovereign eagle sails,
They kept their faith, their freedom, on the height,
Chaste, frugal, savage, arm'd by day and night
Against the Turk; whose inroad nowhere scales...

The match gets ever more intriguing - Lord Alfred Tennyson vs. the Wolfe Tones! Our history is generally about naive rebels who rose bravely against foreign invaders... and were shot.

Anyway, if the history of Imperial conflict had any bearing on football, surely Mongolia would have a half-decent team?

[bwagner]

Finn park where were the brave Donegal men during the troubles ?????? dont slag Monty ok , his country men are brave and its a great spot.