Montenegro V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 10th September 2008 - World Cup 2010 Q

[Duggie]

mcgeady was ok, he has serious pace if his end product just gets a little better. will be a big player for us in the coming years i believe. hes ok IMO.

look at all the results across all the groups. teams will drop points. its a long road.

[Stuttgart88]

I think persisting with 2 traditional wingers may not be the best way to service Keane & Doyle. I also think that Liam Lawrence may well have been the type of player who’d have been useful to bring on last night (if nothing else his set pieces delivery is very good).

In due course a narrower but tight midfield with Whelan anchoring both Reids and maybe McGeady or Duff having a freer role? Our full backs are strong enough to assume the responsibility that this involves.

I’m still happy enough. I disappointed we’ve left 2 points out there but there were clear signs that we’re getting better & more cohesive and less vulnerable at the back.

[John83]

I think John O'Shea has been possesed by the spirit of the undead Franco Baresi.
All hail zombie Baresi.

International matches are infrequent enough that people consistently seem to expect a win. It just doesn't happen. This group will be very tight too, so the two points aren't as significant as some people make out. I'm happy with the four points, and I'm very happy with the performances.

[blobbyblob]

Thought it was a solid, composed and patient performance where the players were comfortable with their roles and look to have taken ownership of this qualification campaign. Thats reflected in their ratings this morning. Given that the only worthy argument for column inches since the weekend has been for the inclusion(or not) of Andy Reid, it speaks volumes of what Trap has done in 4 games.

If your waking up from a coma since the era of Stan - "Its safe to come out"

My only criticism would surround set pieces - attacking. Delivery of frees and corners were shocking and away from home especially we need to be at least creating from these oppurtunities. To fail to beat the first defender at this level is inexcusable. We've also switched off defending on more than one occasion.

Little details add up to points.

[dr_peepee]

I think persisting with 2 traditional wingers may not be the best way to service Keane & Doyle. I also think that Liam Lawrence may well have been the type of player who’d have been useful to bring on last night (if nothing else his set pieces delivery is very good)..


When is the next Friendly?? Just wondering will he bring in the like of Lawrence then...

[Bored]

From the other side (Montenegro), I can say that the public is mildly content with the point against Ireland, the loss of two points to Bulgarians still being a key fact in the press today.

It was bound to end 0-0 with just 2 or 3 semi-decent chances throughout the game. Ireland's best was ruined by Keane's bad effort from the volley, while McGeady's chance wasn't as good as it seemed. He was too much to the right, and had no space to get inside or clean assist options. We had Vucinic alone shooting from a narrow angle and two half-decent long shots, the deflected one being the most likely to get past Given.

Overall, I feel the Ireland's greatest advantage was on the bench. Our manager is well below European average, with no notable successes even on local level, poor international experience, no tactical vision whatsoever, and is incapable of managing a side which should aim to play modern football. Though it improved over the last few games, disorganized defense and midfield causes us to lose where we should draw, and relying solely on our forwards' individual touches of flair to create chances causes us to draw where we should win. On the other hand, Ireland has a world reputation manager who knows his work. His experience was the sole reason I felt Ireland would snatch a 1-0 win somewhere in the last quarter of the game.

On the sidenote, I was quite surprised that the media seemed to completely ignore Simon Vukcevic (left-footed player wearing #7, entered in second half) before this game, while he's pretty much the key player for the national team, and not quite low profile either - being officially the best player of portugese league last season and carrying a 20 mil tag. It was quite strange how media focused on the likes of Boskovic and Jovetic instead, especially considering that it was Simon who had most impact in the second half against Bulgaria.

[seanfhear]

When is the next Friendly?? Just wondering will he bring in the like of Lawrence then...
I think that Lawrence could be a better option than Stephen Hunt but for whatever the reason he has not become a mainstay of the squad.

[rambler14]

I missed the match last night and I only saw sufficient highlights this morning and from what i've seen, it was a BLATANT handball and i'm still wondering how it wasn't given!
Also McGeady had a chance that was identical to Walcott's first two goals and the difference was that McGeady went to the near post when Walcott went across the keeper!.........thats the difference between Celtic and Arsenal.

[Montenegrin]

Can somebody explain me what "partizan crowd" means?

[lionelhutz]

Ireland's best was ruined by Keane's bad effort from the volley, while McGeady's chance wasn't as good as it seemed.

Are you serious? Keane's was an extremely difficult chance that he created out of nothing and almost scored. McGeadys chance was much easier, he had loads of time to decide where to put it and should have at the very least put it across the keeper like any decent attacker would.

[Duggie]

Can somebody explain me what "partizan crowd" means?

vocal...hostile that sort of thing.

[Stuttgart88]

Also McGeady had a chance that was identical to Walcott's first two goals and the difference was that McGeady went to the near post Did he actually go for the near post, or did he just hit it goalward with the ball skewing off the side of his foot?

[Duggie]

Did he actually go for the near post, or did he just hit it goalward with the ball skewing off the side of his foot?

ya think he just hit it like you said. pity great chance but great pass by robbie to set him up.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Did he actually go for the near post, or did he just hit it goalward with the ball skewing off the side of his foot?

He paniced and just took a swipe at it, distinct lack of composure. Shame, was the chance of the game by a long way....

[Dun Laoire]

All hail zombie Baresi.

International matches are infrequent enough that people consistently seem to expect a win. It just doesn't happen. This group will be very tight too, so the two points aren't as significant as some people make out. I'm happy with the four points, and I'm very happy with the performances.

The way i see it is realistically we are looking for second place (I mean if we won the group the country would go into a tizzy). So if you look at it from that point of view and take it that it's between us and Bulgaria for second spot we already have the upper hand because we've already matched them in Montenegro. It's now up to them to go out and beat Georgia away.

[Billsthoughts]

Are you serious? Keane's was an extremely difficult chance that he created out of nothing and almost scored. McGeadys chance was much easier, he had loads of time to decide where to put it and should have at the very least put it across the keeper like any decent attacker would.

I thought Keane's volley was a great bit of skill. As good as you would see in an Ireland match in manys the long year.

[joeSoap]

I took some great positives from the two games:

1).We now have a very established, very experienced back 5. O'Shea has looked far more composed alongside Dunne, and we have solid full backs and keeper. We won't be conceding 5 to anybody...let alone Cyprus.

2). Whelan is a good worker, and when Reid gains full fitness, they will be a strong partnership.

3). McGeady and Hunt are our Achilles Heel. Duff, if ever fit again, and Andy Reid have to be our wide men for the remainder of the campaign. I know every manager has his pets, and I hope and pray McGeady or Hunt aren't Trappatonis. Hunt is nothing only a runner. He is also a liability as he is a dirty player. I used to think he couldn't tackle, now I believe him to be a dirty player. McGeady will never quite make it imo.

4).Doyle and Keane are sound. The goals will come; especially if Andy Reid and Duff are supplying them the ball.

All in all, I'd have settled for 4 points last Saturday at 5 o'clock. Now I see it as 2 points down the swanny.

[Wolfie]

Content enough with the result but theres a nagging feeling that with a bit of luck (Robbie Keane volley, peno shouts) and composure (McGeady effort) - we could have nicked it.

If we have any real designs on winning the group we really should have been nicking the 3 points last night. This isn't a specific critiscism of the team or the performance. Its the reality of the situation. Italy have the nack of nicking games that we can't.

A few things of note from the game:

John O'Shea - I've been one of his staunchest critics. He was outstanding last night. His best performance for Ireland by a country mile. The bloke needs to make the break from Utd and sign for another club at centre half. He owes it to himself.

Glen Whelan - continues to establish himself. He's by far the finished article but has delivered for us in the short term. I'm sure there's a few who wrote him off are back tracking a bit at this stage.

Stephen Hunt - his attitude and commitment is infectious and commendable. However, he's a school yard player. Head down and leg it. That's the game plan. If Hunt doesn't know what he's going to do next - what hope have the opposition? His delivery for the set pieces last night was abominable. May well revert to "impact sub" status.

How big is the Cyprus game now???!!!??!!

[Noelys Guitar]

I expect Duff to come back against Cyprus but injury permitting no other personnel changes. We should see Stephen Reid venturing further forward more often. And both full backs overlapping occasionally. Exactly what the Italian's do. 1-0 or 2-0 type score. Anyone expecting to see one of Andy Reid/Lawerence/Murphy starting against Cyprus will be disappointed. Not going to happen. Why would Trap drop players who have just got him 4 away points under difficult circumstances (other than Duff who played previously in 2 of Traps 3 first games).

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Keane's volley was a great bit of skill. As good as you would see in an Ireland match in manys the long year.Superb technique and timing. If he'd only mi**** it slightly or just a fraction either side of the keeper it may have gone in.

[Closed Account 2]

Can somebody explain me what "partizan crowd" means?

Na jezika engleski "partizan crowd" prevode "vrlo šum", "sa zastavam"...

Nije Jugoslaveski partizani sa Titom ili Partizan Beograd

[ken foree]

As for Trap when the FAI hired an Italian what did anyone think that they would get ? For me it's defence defence and defence that's what they do and that's what they have been good at for years . If you wanted free flowing football then we should have got some Dude from Brazil and we would have been looking at 1 point from our frist two games .......

claret murph, please meet paul o'shea. paul, claret :)

[geysir]

Considering the heat, Ireland adapted much better.
Montenegro came out at 100mph, our defense took it all on the chin and wasn't ruffled.
In ten or 15 minutes they litterly ran out of steam and we took a composed control.

All in all I would give Trap an excellent 9/10 so far.
These are the first games he has really had a chance to see his system in action.
We have a rock solid foundation to build on.
There will be more improvements to our game, this is just the start.

[TheBoss]

Can't agree with you there. Hunt was very very poor. Okay, he'll run all day but he was not dangerous(and I can't rem when he was dangerous for Ireland)and at the end of the day he is meant to be an attacking player.He does not appear to have a football brain (evidenced when he chased a guy into the corner in 1st half and ball hit him on head - Doyle already had the guy closed down). He is a headless chicken and liable to do anything. That said,some headless chickens have their uses (eg Chris Waddle) and I would have him on the squad but only as an impact sub to use his pace against tiring opposition

He did not play bad, that is what you get with him, he played his maximum game, whether it is not good enough is a differemt issue, you can not say he played bad, when he gives his best game nearly every game he plays.

[colster]

Considering the heat, Ireland adapted much better.
Montenegro came out at 100mph, our defense took it all on the chin and wasn't ruffled.
In ten or 15 minutes they litterly ran out of steam and we took a composed control.

All in all I would give Trap an excellent 9/10 so far.
These are the first games he has really had a chance to see his system in action.
We have a rock solid foundation to build on.
There will be more improvements to our game, this is just the start.

Couldn't agree more. It's a good start. I think the most pleasing part for me is the confidence and coolness the players are showing in possession and the workrate and concentration when not in possession. the other thing is that we have a good spine to the team. Good Goalkeeper, Good Defence, Good Midfield, Good Frontline.
I think what's let us down has been the wingplay. That can be improved by Duff's return.

[Montenegrin]

Na jezika engleski "partizan crowd" prevode "vrlo šum", "sa zastavam"...

Nije Jugoslaveski partizani sa Titom ili Partizan Beograd


:eek:
Opa pa ti znas solidno nas jezik.Normalno,jos je tu dosta gresaka,ali polako,naucices.
Did you understand anything I wrote?

[Duggie]

He did not play bad, that is what you get with him, he played his maximum game, whether it is not good enough is a differemt issue, you can not say he played bad, when he gives his best game nearly every game he plays.

ur right there he played desperate, gave it away i actually think every single time. please let duff be fit for cyprus.

[tetsujin1979]

Superb technique and timing. If he'd only mi**** it slightly or just a fraction either side of the keeper it may have gone in.
Yeah, that's what I thought, he got too clean a connection with the ball, and it went straight at the keeper. Still a fantastic piece of technique to control the ball between 2 players, fall, swivel, and still get a shot away. Given his record of international goalscoring, I'd definitely back him to score against Cyprus.

[geysir]

:eek:
Opa pa ti znas solidno nas jezik.Normalno,jos je tu dosta gresaka,ali polako,naucices.
Did you understand anything I wrote?
To answer your original Q about the meaning of "partisan"

It means your fans were fully behind your team with a patriotic fervour, loud vocal support, chants, flags, songs of encouragement. As long as you didn't throw rocks at our fans, the word "hostile" does not apply :)

[Claret Murph]

claret murph, please meet paul o'shea. paul, claret :)

Errrrr Ken how do know that I haven't meet Paul ?????????:ball:;)

[Drumcondra 69er]

Yeah, that's what I thought, he got too clean a connection with the ball, and it went straight at the keeper. Still a fantastic piece of technique to control the ball between 2 players, fall, swivel, and still get a shot away. Given his record of international goalscoring, I'd definitely back him to score against Cyprus.

Said the exact same thing watching it last night, he hit right through the ball, had he mi**** it slightly it could've gone either side. Superb piece of skill all the same, would've been as good a goal as we've ever seen for Ireland....

[paul_oshea]

Errrrr Ken how do know that I haven't meet Paul ?????????:ball:;)

spot the montenegrin on the board!!!!

ya if he had mi**** it alright he would have fluffed it and not got it anywhere near the goal, if on the other hand he had side-footed it it would have been top corner as would have spun away from the keeper to the right side. He caught right on the tongue of the boot. Great piece of skill though.

[Stuttgart88]

Said the exact same thing watching it last night, he hit right through the ball, had he mi**** it slightly it could've gone either side. Superb piece of skill all the same, would've been as good a goal as we've ever seen for Ireland....Remember Ronnie Whelan in Hannover - mis hit left footed volley? Result: one of our most memorable goals ever!

[tetsujin1979]

off topic, how funny is mi**** getting asterisked out?

[Stuttgart88]

Is it true Glenn Whelan is to sign for Scunthorpe?

Edit: obviously that name is allowed now!

[paul_oshea]

off topic, how funny is mi**** getting asterisked out?

ya that was the whole reason of my reply. :D

[eirebhoy]

Did you think glenn whelan always picked out the forward pass rather than the easy back to defenders pass?
What I really like about Whelan is he keeps the game flowing. He won't hold onto the ball too long and he'll play the best available pass. At club level he might hold onto the ball more and play more long balls but I much prefer the way Trap has him playing. His movement is fantastic. He certainly wouldn't hold us back in playing a really good passing game.

[tetsujin1979]

I recorded the match last night, but I'm having problems with the second half, it plays fine in VLC, but when I try to encode it down to XVID, it crashes my laptop :(
Here's what I've uploaded so far
RTE Build Up: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M64PY5YL
RTE Half Time: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XD7V5TM1
RTE 1st Half: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SXNVVA03
RTE Post Game: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5547BFGU

Setanta Post Game: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T5M1OIQW

[Closed Account 2]

:eek:
Opa pa ti znas solidno nas jezik.Normalno,jos je tu dosta gresaka,ali polako,naucices.
Did you understand anything I wrote?

Hej drug, ne govorim Crnogorski jezik, ali razumem malo... ucim jezic... Nema greska je nemoguce :) :S

It's difficult because there are so many new words, like I always use ucim for learn and when I see naucim it takes me ages to remember that means "learn" too, it's been years since I last spoke it at even a basic level.

[Cortezuma]

In the whole argument about the inclusion of Andy Reid I think people are being far too generalistic in appraising his contribution. He is not know for his tackling back and work-rate, given, but that does not mean he is always like that.

So far for Sunderland he has put in very strong performances as captain, running the show and covering a lot of ground. He has been lasting the distance including 120mins in the League Cup where he was still working hard near the end. He can work back and tackle, just not as much as Hunt.

But, here, is the question. Would you rather have a battling winger who will give you extra cover defensively, but who loses the ball so regularly that you are always put under pressure as a result? Or, would you rather have a player who will work back and put the effort in, to a lesser extent than the battling winger, but who's ball retention and creativity is second to none in your squad?

I know my answer, Trap knows his, but I'm hoping his mind will change once he gets to watch how Reid is actually playing currently at Sunderland.

[Duggie]

no the answer is duff will come back in and replace the winger who gives the ball away every time.

[tetsujin1979]

With Duff back, and presumably straight into the starting XI, this will push Hunt on to the bench (obviously) but will that mean Andy Reid will have to start competing with him as well for a chance to be introduced from the bench?

[Noelys Guitar]

With Duff back, and presumably straight into the starting XI, this will push Hunt on to the bench (obviously) but will that mean Andy Reid will have to start competing with him as well for a chance to be introduced from the bench?

Trap seems to be suggesting that Reid will only be used as an impact sub for Doyle or Keane . With Hunt coming on for McGeady or Duff. Murphy next in line for the winger positions. Keogh next in line for both wing and front positions. Long next in line for front positions only. Some speculation there mixed with what Trap has actually said.

[Kilcruise]

Was at both games and overall i thought the irish performance was good. Considering where we ended in the last campaign I cannot really fault the start to this one. Yes you can coment on individual performances and Trap's tactics but I am fairly pleased. May it continue and hopefully we get Duff back, i think this is crucial.
Also met John Delaney whilst in Germany and in fairness came across well and at least he was amongst us having a few beers and freely chatted to us all.
Good gesture with the free Georgia tickets also

signing off from a relatively content Irish fan to date

[Clipper]

After these games I think we can safely say that the rot has been stopped. Impressed with performance on Wednesday, you can see we're heading in the right direction. Played alright against Georgia and improved on that on Wednesday, disapointed not to grab all 3 points but happy to settle for 4 points and a solid start.

Jaysus even John O'Shea is starting to look like a good player in a green jersey...

[OwlsFan]

Big tests at home though as well to come. Do we have the ability to break teams down? We didn't create much in those two away games. Organised, a pattern of play, defending well yes but not showing a lot up front. Things can go pear shaped very quickly and unless we pick up 3 points against Cyprus all the hard work away has been undone. I worry that we won't but then I always do :rolleyes:

[Wolfie]

Big tests at home though as well to come. Do we have the ability to break teams down? We didn't create much in those two away games. Organised, a pattern of play, defending well yes but not showing a lot up front. Things can go pear shaped very quickly and unless we pick up 3 points against Cyprus all the hard work away has been undone. I worry that we won't but then I always do :rolleyes:

The trauma's of the past have conditioned many of us to fear the worst!.

We'll certainly need to force to issue a bit more at home in an attempt to win the game - which Trapp is obviously aware of.

[Sligo Hornet]

I thought we controlled the game well, cancelling out their quick passing game on the edge of our box, so much so I confidently announced that the best they had to offer (30 yard shots) would be no bother......cue Shay Given.....:eek:;)

[NeilMcD]

Yeah and you were lucky I had not taken your head off at that stage. !!!!:)

[geysir]

Are you on home ground Neil?