First Division

[oldyouth]

U-18 Cup semi-final Line Up was:

St Pats Athletic Vs Dundalk

Wexford Yths Vs Salthill Devon

Final is on in Ferrycarrig Park on the 18th may, Wexford Vs Dundalk!!

Ssssh! Flawless. If you tell Jebus, Lim and the others about this they might have to revise their opinion about us. Especially if they find out we also made the final of the U18 Inter League Trophy by beating Cork last Sunday. Leave them be, positive news doesn't agree with them

[Magicme]

We do have loads of young talent coming through and had some talent that have moved on already, Paul Sheils and Paul Smyth at Dundalk are two examples of local lads who are trying things out at other clubs and how could you blame them, they get paid more.

We have a small budget and rather than bankrupt ourselves we cut our cloth accordingly. Sheridan, you are so right, we tried again at the start of last season to give lots of young local lads the chance to play for us and we werent exactly a success and despite at one stage having 6-8 locals on the squad, the crowds didnt exactly improve. Its time to move on from the parocial (sp?) way of thinking, leave that to the GAA and see it as a business where we hire the best we can afford, no matter what their address is. The passion for the local team will increase when there is something to be passionate about, i.e. a chance of silverware.

[L37Ultra]

You my dear dont have a clue what you are talking about. Monaghan United are very secure financially and are well able to sustain themselves without a massive fan base. The fans will build though as United have just hired a full time CPO to ensure that they do.

The fact that Monaghan United have taken the slow route and built up the facilities before concentrating on the team will stand them in good stead in the coming seasons and I see Athlone following in a similar vein. Makes good business sense to get your house in order and build your facilities before you attempt to recapture the imagination of the doubting GAA loving public.

Trust me I do. Sure Kilkenny concentrated on facilities etc.. and look where they are now. An average of 100 people attending your home games isnt sustainable in the long run. Not trying to put down any club as its just my opinion on how I see the League.

[Magicme]

Trust me I do. Sure Kilkenny concentrated on facilities etc.. and look where they are now. An average of 100 people attending your home games isnt sustainable in the long run. Not trying to put down any club as its just my opinion on how I see the League.

We will see.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Trust me I do. Sure Kilkenny concentrated on facilities etc.. and look where they are now. An average of 100 people attending your home games isnt sustainable in the long run. Not trying to put down any club as its just my opinion on how I see the League.

What's the etc? Kilkenny didn't concentrate on much more than facilities but Monaghan are clearly investing in the grass roots starting at schoolboys and hoping that the success of their underage teams will carry on into senior level (similar to Wexford Youths coincidentally). I don't think a team with low crowds/money have any other option but to do this. Improved standard will mean improved crowds and hopefully when that happens progress will continue to be made by Mons, and the Youths too.

[Flawless]

Having watched Schoolboy football in the Dundalk leagues (Where the young Monaghan UTD teams play) for longer than i care to remember, and being involved in coaching in this league, the Monaghan UTD teams that play in the Dundalk Schoolboys league alway seem to be very strong, it is a wonder how some of these don't make the transition. I know you had a few exceptions in Paul Smyth, Stephen Finnegan, Paul Whelan, and even Mark O'Connor played a few games, but there were many more quality players who could have been good enough but lost interest?, Neil McAdam who now plays with the Monaghan Senior GAA team being one, I also recall a very good goalkeeper and youth international, Prunty i think his name was, where is he now?, I reckon that it may be something in the higher powers of the club that is stifling the youths of Monaghan, or making players lose interest?,im obviously not an authority on the behind the Scenes aspect to Mons, as Magicme might be, but something is amiss after kids leave underage systems, or get to the 18 yr mark

[Monkfish]

when do you check your mirror steve

When applying ones make-up I believe.

[Battery Rover]

Trust me I do. Sure Kilkenny concentrated on facilities etc.. and look where they are now. An average of 100 people attending your home games isnt sustainable in the long run. Not trying to put down any club as its just my opinion on how I see the League.

What is this sustainable number of fans that seems to crop up all the time.

What clubs do you think are viable in the long term seeing as at least 75% of them are spending above what they have.

Monaghan are one of the best run clubs in the league and a lot could be learnt from them

[monutdfc]

That would make the majority of your team Dubs then. Is there no talent in Mid-Ulster, Belfast or the North Midlands? All im saying that maybe this is a reason why your crowds aint the best?
As for the 4 year averages (why not 1 or 10 years?) how much of your average were acually Mon fans? and not Dundalk and Harps?

In fairness Monkfish, your posts have been the amongst the more coherent from Limerick fans in this thread*. When we joined the league most of our players came from the mid-Ulster, Newry, Dundalk as well as the Monaghan area. But there is huge competition for those players and the Irish League is a more attractive proposition - games are almost all on a Saturday at 3pm and your longest journey is about 100 miles - beats going to Cobh on a Saturday night and getting home at 3 or 4 in the morning. We have several former players at Armagh City now for example.

But yours and Flawless's points are well made - we have a problem bridging the gap between a very strong underage set-up and the senior side. Having a Dublin-based manager and training does not help at all; under Bobby Browne our promotion team of 2000-01 had 4 locals in the side, so it can be done. IMO we are going nowhere under the current manager though (his selection of the utterly useless Tadhg Murphy ahead of Darren McQuaid being a prime example of his preference for second-rate outsiders ahead of adequate locals).
As for the 4 year average, that's because the attandance thread gives 4 years' history.

(*I also agree with LTID's commentary on the First Division)

[amjl]

In fairness (and im not winding you up) but who in Monaghan wants to see a team of Dubs representing their town and getting beat every second week while their at it? I agree theres a lot of things being done right up there but while your team has to get a bus to its home matches I cant see many locals supporting the cause.
Not having a go, just how I see it.

We had a team of mostly Dubs in 2006:
Aaron Shanahan
Sean LeStrange
Rory Hussey
Gary Deegan
Chris Doran
Brian King
Conor Buckley
Brian Murphy - Carlow
Niall Murphy - Carlow
Willie Doyle - Wexford
Matthew Wong - Kilkenny
Andrew Grifith - Kilkenny
Cathal Sweetman
Graham Mulvey
Paul Donnelly
Peter Darcy
Aaron Mooney
Liam Tiernan
Pat O'Hanlon

Our worse season ever, we would have been happy to get beat every second week, rather than every single week. 3 wins & a total of 17 points for the season, begining of the end IMO.

[monutdfc]

And our useless manager goes and signs 3 of them in 2007!
(In fairness, there's a couple of them that are ok, but not the 3 he signed)

[Lim till i die]

(*I also agree with LTID's commentary on the First Division)

It's gratifying, really it is.

In fairness your point on the season averages for attendances doesn't really take in to account the extenuating circumstances around our little shambles.

Plus people forget that in Limerick we are probably competing with at least three or four Mon Utd sized clubs, clubs who in dark seasons past have been better than us, despite being junior.

It also fails to take into account the fact that your average because it is so low is pushed up to a large degree by the bi annual visits of Dundalk plus one or two other big clubs.

Your post in the attendances thread about the Fingal game this season suggests a maximum of two dozen Monaghan fans at the game. Now maybe you said this tongue in cheek, but the very fact that I have to even ask speaks volumes about the problems your club faces. Hiring a full time CPO is a step to some extent and will be successful at least in the short-term as even a trained monkey should be at least able to double your crowds given their paltry nature

On Limerick I'll never forget the playoff year when the club were going to the wall. Crowds were terrible and the chairmen made an appeal for people to turn up. At our next game against Sligo the home crowd shot up from around 100 to 900 with loads of people paying double in the gate, making donations etc. The crowds for the remainder of the season stayed up in the mid to high hundreds and the club was saved. My point being that eventhough their wasn't enough interest within the town to go and watch the games, when push came to shove the people of Limerick (to a degree I grant you 900 isn't great) came out to ensure senior football didn't die off altogether.

My point being that if a similar situation were to arise in say Mon or Kildare I'm not sure if this rescue would happen*

I of course grant you that this situation isn't likely in Monaghan at the moment as the club is well run but I think we could both agree on how potentially fragile eircom league membership can be.

On the local/non-local players thing, maybe it's just a bit of Limerick contrariness but I can guarentee you that people in this town wouldn't come out to follow a team of non locals to the same degree as a local. A mid table local team would have better support than a title chasing team of Dubs.

Genuinely not having a dig but if I was from Monaghan I would have probably not followed the team some years due to its make up.

You my dear dont have a clue what you are talking about.

No need for the condescencion.

L37Ultra is just in the door of the Eircom League. By all means explain to him if you like but no need to be smart, he was only going by what he observes.



*I fully accept the absolute joke shop that my club has been for large swathes of the last twenty years incase anyone felt the need to point it out again. (bravo passerby)

[monutdfc]

It's gratifying, really it is.

In fairness your point on the season averages for attendances doesn't really take in to account the extenuating circumstances around our little shambles.

I only made the point because I was getting a bit pee'd off with some Lims fans looking down their nose at us; I don't deny our crowds are rubbish.

On Limerick I'll never forget the playoff year when the club were going to the wall. Crowds were terrible and the chairmen made an appeal for people to turn up. .... .. when push came to shove the people of Limerick (to a degree I grant you 900 isn't great) came out to ensure senior football didn't die off altogether.

My point being that if a similar situation were to arise in say Mon or Kildare I'm not sure if this rescue would happen*

I don't know either, and hopefully it will never come to that. As I said previously in another thread, the club gets tremendous support from businesses in the town if not from paying punters. There is an interest in the club, lots of people look out for the results but hardly ever come to games. The first challenge of the CPO is to get these people out to KCP.

Maybe Monaghan is too small for senior football in a gaa area. But 10 years ago one might have said the same about Longford and look at the success they've had since.

[Lim till i die]

Yet Lim you seem to think that that other clubs don't lose players to injury or suspension. Every club out there would give any other a run for their money with a full squad

Wexford, Kildare and Mon shouldn't on paper, because their teams aren't good enough.

I admit that obviously abberations will happen (Mon 1 Shels 0) for example but over the course of a year quality should out.

We are missing our club captain since the start of the season Pat Purcell. Easily one of the best defenders in the division and would waltz into any of the teams I mentioned above, possibly playing in whatever position he chose.

For the past few weeks we have been missing Wayne Colbert, easily one of the best midfielders in the division and again, would be an absolute superstar with any of the clubs mentioned above.

Derek McCarthy was also out for our first six games, a striker who would waltz into any of the times mentioned above and who still isn't back to full fitness yet.

Tommy Barrett, a central midfielder currently doing a great job out of position at centre half due to Purcells abscence would grace any team in this division.

So you see the whole spine of our team has been warped since the start of season.

Shane Treacy was even starting to look a player before his injury and would walk into any of the teams mentioned above.

So would Willie Bruton.

I would also make strong cases for young Dannagher, Peter White and one or two others would be much better than their counterparts at these clubs.

Our problem this season is always going to be a lack of depth due to the teency budget we're operating off. I could tell you our wage bill for this week and it would shock most people on here (think three figures)

Jimmy Fyffe, easily the best goalkeeper in the division when in form, is unavailable most weeks due to work commitments. (He's in a band )

So:

Wayne Colbert
Tommy Barrett
Paddy Purcell
Willie Bruton
Arguably Derek McCarthy and Shane Treacy.
Jimmy Fyffe when not gigging.

Quality the clubs Imentioned could only dream of to be perfectly honest.

Are you starting to get the picture yet??

Ssssh! Flawless. If you tell Jebus, Lim and the others about this they might have to revise their opinion about us.

What in the name of God does your U-18s set up have to do with your rubbish senior team??

In the past number of years we have had excellent U-21 teams and a fat lot of good it did us.

[Lim till i die]

I only made the point because I was getting a bit pee'd off with some Lims fans looking down their nose at us; I don't deny our crowds are rubbish.

Ultra doesn't know the ins and outs in fairness to the guy.

As I said previously in another thread, the club gets tremendous support from businesses in the town if not from paying punters.

I wouldn't deny that for a second but my point was (Not knowing the ins and outs of all your business arrangement, just a few ) was how fragile this situation is as how long could it be before a big sponsor gets fed up and walks.

BTW I'd argue that your relationship with local business is a huge plus point compared to a club like Limerick, it's on support from the local public that you fall down (and that we have often fallen down ourselves and you see how dire the dtraights become when you have no business support to fall back on)

There is an interest in the club, lots of people look out for the results but hardly ever come to games.

Look, I can honestly say that there are at least 20,000 people in Limerick city, who, when you mention you were at the game, will gaze dewy eyed into the distance, sit you down and talk to you about how everything is going with the club but who will be next seen at a Limerick match if we draw Manchester United in the Champions League.

Don't believe the $hite-hawks. Yes there will be extra people who will come but nowhere near as many as would have you believe.

Having said this if your crowds haven't at least doubled by the end of the year it might be time to sit down and have a look at it.

Maybe Monaghan is too small for senior football in a gaa area.

Quite possibly, as sad as that is. If an AIL ever takes off, you will be left far, far, behind.

But 10 years ago one might have said the same about Longford and look at the success they've had since

Yes and now they are a poorly supported husk of a club with a ground and a team falling down around them.

[Monkfish]

some Lims fans looking down their nose at us

Not my intention if you think it was, just questioning if the number of non locals in your team has anything got to do with poor turnouts.

[oldyouth]

Most of you Limerick lads are a pain in the neck. Firstly you give out lumps about a team full of outsiders, yet you have this prolonged attack on Wexford Youths who are 100% local 'cos their football is not up to your standard

Our team is a work in progress in it's 2nd year in the LOI. This year our young lads are in the U18 Inter League final and The U18 Cup final.

What has Limerick 37 in the pipeline?

[jebus]

Most of you Limerick lads are a pain in the neck. Firstly you give out lumps about a team full of outsiders, yet you have this prolonged attack on Wexford Youths who are 100% local 'cos their football is not up to your standard

Whats to get confused about? Monaghan get criticised for being a team of Dublin rejects, and Wexford get criticised for being the most God awful football team to ever grace a semi-professional league, simple really.

Couldn't give a monkey's about your 18s team to be honest

[Lim till i die]

Most of you Limerick lads are a pain in the neck. Firstly you give out lumps about a team full of outsiders, yet you have this prolonged attack on Wexford Youths who are 100% local 'cos their football is not up to your standard

Our team is a work in progress in it's 2nd year in the LOI. This year our young lads are in the U18 Inter League final and The U18 Cup final.

Is it local tradition to be the most mind numbingly awful side you can be??

If it is then fair enough......

No one said anything about a team being 100% loacl.

As for your U-18s team

[Splurge]

Wexford get criticised for being the most God awful football team to ever grace a semi-professional league, simple really.
Couldn't give a monkey's about your 18s team to be honest

Were a point behind the great Limerick almost 1/4 way through the season.
Ppl in glasshouses.
I remember hearing some yank businessman on newstalk recently talking about investing in your lot, personally i wouldnt be bothered going to see my local team if it wasnt just that and instead just bankrolled by some outsider bringing in outsiders.
I'd rather support Chelsea tbh, they wear blue aswell so the transition wouldnt be difficult for you.