A 'Home' Squad

[John83]

How'm I doing so far?

Not so bad - rather better than before. I am ignoring the larger debate here, and perhaps we're discussing slightly different questions (I don't really care for the original debate - I think 'home nation' is a sloppy term for Ireland, incorrect since 1921, but that people are over-sensitive to that sort of thing). However, I'll give it one last go.

You countered the assertion that New Zealand has no problems with the term Australasian by pointing out an irrelevancy.

You've met the point better in your last post, but previously your answer was,

So "convenient a word" in fact, that they ignore it completely and use the term "Oceania" regarding football tournaments.

My primary school teacher had a word for people who said too much stuff while their brain was out playing.

the word was "Shhhh".

There's no mention of cultural factors or monarchy there, just knocking a straw man down before throwing a petty insult at tricky_colour.

[Bondvillain]

just knocking a straw man down before throwing a petty insult at tricky_colour.

So...

J83 (That's you) gives BV a mighty fine schoolin' in Pacific geography 101 in a spirited & stern attempt to put the apparently Australasia-denying BV and his smart mouth back in his damn box.

...was pretty much on the money then? It wasn't actually about the post subject, but rather about umbrage taken over an alleged slight on another poster? Took you long enough to get round to actually saying it...

Fair Enough, perhaps your intervention was required. If Tricky_colour is in the audience, I of course sincerely apologise if they felt any discomfort or anguish due to the aforementioned petty insults, and I will endeavour to avoid anything that smells remotely of straw men in future, lest I post and cause someone to be upset. And John83, if you want to tell someone to cop on and stop being a smartarse in future, don't use an atlas. Just use the words "cop on and stop being a smartarse". It's quicker and a bit less "round the houses".

[backstothewall]

Walsall

A) I provided a succinct and accepted definition of home nation in an earlier post. They have a thing to help with reading comprehension out here in the States called hooked on phonics, I suggest you invest.

B) Taking the **** out of the term North Atlantic Archipelago does not help your case in any capacity. It too, is the accepted diction of historians, when there is need to describe your "British Isles" without injecting any form of political or social bias.

"the accepted diction of historians"

I feel the accepted diction of Geographers might be a tad more relevent when discussing a geographic term, however...

...I tested your theory out with a simple test.

The phrase History of the North Atlantic Archipelago returns 133,000 results on google. History of the 'North Atlantic Archipelago' returns 854

"History of the British Isles" returns 6,570,000 results. History of the 'British Isles' gets 6,530,000. It not scientific, but its a good indication of the extent of the phrases use

Getting back to the point, what you have done with the term "British Isles" is exactly what has been done with the term "home Nation". Inject politics where none exists naturally, or is needed. My politics are staunchly nationalist for what its worth, but recognising links and similarities in culture between everyone in IONA/British Isles has no impact whatsoever on the right of Ireland to independent self determination.

In summary, in my definition, we are a home nation because when England got knocked out it put a smile on most Irishmens face and a spring in the step on the way to work, in a way it simply didn't do for Swedes or Germans, and because when the BBC did their Sports Personality of the year show they included us in the football segment.

When the term came about we were a home nation, as we were all part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. That much is true. But when part of the nation ceased to be, i don't see that it automatically follows that we ceased to be a home nation. One is not interdependant with the other in my opinion, as one is about politics, and the other culture.

[citizenerased]

how has this thread not been binned yet?!

[irishfan86]

how has this thread not been binned yet?!

Indeed, this isn't foot.naa!

[backstothewall]

Even i'm fed up with it

[tricky_colour]

how has this thread not been binned yet?!

You don't bin good food, it has drifted a little off topic and we have not even sorted out the squad yet, never mind where the games will be played.

[irishfan86]

I propose a re-mix medley of Ireland's Call and GSTQ (Sex Pistols version) for the anthem.

[backstothewall]

It couldn't be worse than Ireland Call on its own

[dcfcsteve]

Look up the origins of the term 'British'. Specifically, look for the term 'Pretanic'. 'Celtic' derives from a Greek term applied to the Gauls by the Romans. We're far more British than Celtic.

I know the origins of the word 'Britain' thanks - I'm big into my etymology.

I also know the origin of the word 'gay'.

Both have changed their meaning over time, so your point is irrelevant.

It is very arguable that the Celts were more a linguistic 'nation' than a genetic one. The Celts of Ireland were different linguistically from the Priteanic 'P' Celts of Britain (we were/are 'Q' or Goidelic Celts). So on that basis the Irish we're very much Celtic, and not very British - even by its original origins.

[dcfcsteve]

Trying reading a bit. I'm sure theres a decent library in Derry.

You do make me laugh,. Glad you've finally found Google.

As for the libraries in Derry - there's a couple of decent ones, but a glance to the top right-hand corner of every post I make wll give you a clue as to why I don't use them.

You are great humour value though - I wll say that. Please promise me you'll be on here a lot over Christmas, as the TV is usually rubbish and you're much better entertainment.....

[CollegeTillIDie]

There were no facts to counter. You told us the term home nation has a very specific meaning, then failed to tell us what that meaning is or provide any source. It was nothing more than an opinion.

btw, is Iceland part of the North Atlantic Archipelago? What about the Faroes?? Rockall??

As was rightly pointed out what makes us a home nation is that we all watch x factor and I'm a celeb, eat the same bad food, speak the same language, vote for each other in Eurovision, and go on holiday to Majorca to watch repeats of Only Fools and Horses and Father Ted while getting terribly burnt due to our pasty white skin.

To paraphrase an Irishman who made the most of this, we are 4 nations divided by a common culture and history.

We have our own language, so do the Welsh and the Scottish, the English can only speak one, and they don't speak their own one all that well duh! Hardly a common culture and English people, on the whole take a sun tan better than we do on the whole which proves we are different !

Now as regards a national anthem for Northern Ireland... GSTQ as Gaeilge and a verse in Ulster Scots

[tricky_colour]

I guess we could call it a Union Jack squad.

Oof course that would exclude Wales because they are not represented on the Union Jack.

It's no great loss though Ryan Giggs would have struggled to get a place in the first team anyway.

[SuperDave]

I guess we could call it a Union Jack squad.

Oof course that would exclude Wales because they are not represented on the Union Jack.

It's no great loss though Ryan Giggs would have struggled to get a place in the first team anyway.

well, Gareth Bale can play left wing as well as full back (where England are fairly well covered)

[Cymro]

I guess we could call it a Union Jack squad.

Oof course that would exclude Wales because they are not represented on the Union Jack.

It's no great loss though Ryan Giggs would have struggled to get a place in the first team anyway.

Who would you have at left wing in place of Giggs, just out of interest?

[backstothewall]

We have our own language, so do the Welsh and the Scottish, the English can only speak one, and they don't speak their own one all that well duh! Hardly a common culture and English people, on the whole take a sun tan better than we do on the whole which proves we are different !

I didn't want to come back to this, but hey.

All you have shown is that we used to speak different languages, but don't any more.

Compared to the legacy of 500 years of Irishmen fighting in the British army; great Irishmen like Wilde, Wellington, Burke, Shaw etc making their fame in London, great Scots, English and Welsh men like James Connolly, Erskine Childers doing so here; Millions of Irish migrants altering Britain forever; the Williamite War and the sacrifice in Flanders, us having different minority languages seems insignificant

[tricky_colour]

Who would you have at left wing in place of Giggs, just out of interest?

Duff, Hunt, Kilbane, A Ried etc......

[Cymro]

Duff, Hunt, Kilbane, A Ried etc......

Please dear God tell me you are not being serious.

Duff=injured
Hunt=doesn't even start regularly for the ROI
Andy Reid=plays in the Championship
Kilbane=the only realistic contender, but still nowhere near Giggs's level, both in past achievements and current form

If you seriously believe that those players would get ahead of Giggs, you are an idiot. If not you are a troll. Either way comments like that don't help your image much.

[tricky_colour]

Please dear God tell me you are not being serious.

Duff=injured
Hunt=doesn't even start regularly for the ROI
Andy Reid=plays in the Championship
Kilbane=the only realistic contender, but still nowhere near Giggs's level, both in past achievements and current form

If you seriously believe that those players would get ahead of Giggs, you are an idiot. If not you are a troll. Either way comments like that don't help your image much.

Giggs is 34, he is on the wane, he has retired from international football.
My image remains intact

[Cymro]

Giggs is performing as well as he ever has. If he were on the wane, Ferguson would have got rid of him by now. The fact that he hasn't and still starts him in his first choice XI (he does rotate his squad, obviously) should prove that.

The fact that Giggs has retired from Welsh internationals should not bar him from being considered for a hypothetical HN squad.