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View Poll Results: Do you want Terry Venables as next Irish Manager

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  • Yes - he's just what we need

    33 12.09%
  • No - He's a chancer

    240 87.91%
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Thread: Terry Venables

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er View Post
    Already posted this on another thread but this is all anyone needs to know about Very Terribles,

    Hell Tell
    CRYSTAL PALACE 1976-80

    Promoted from his coaching role at Crystal Palace in 1976, Terence
    Frederick Venables took managerial charge from Malcolm Allison and
    saw his Eagles soar from Third Division to First in three dizzy
    seasons. With success built on Allison's brave youth policy, sages
    such as Jeff Powell dubbed Palace the 'Team of the Eighties'.

    But Jeff and his mates were too easily pleased, frankly, for
    although Palace topped the First Division the following season, the
    leaves were not yet off the trees, and by the season's end,
    mid-table obscurity was the best Venables could muster. With that, a
    younger, leaner, less tikka-tinged El Tel took his sheepskin coat
    and burgeoning reputation off to west London, leaving Palace in
    disarray.

    QPR 1980-84

    As Palace slipped back down to the Second, Tel kept himself buoyant
    by winning promotion to the First Division (after three seasons) and
    taking the Rs to the 1982 FA Cup final (one of the most intensely
    irritating of all time
    ; 210 minutes of abject tedium with Glenn
    Hoddle emerging as the hero).


    Taking a small club up - and to Wembley - put him right up there
    with greats of the game like Graham Taylor (although unlike Watford,
    QPR never became league runners-up under Tel's tutelage). In fact,
    you can't even compare Tel's achievements at this level to those of
    Southampton's Lawrie McMenemy, who not only matched Taylor's
    achievements but won the Cup as well.


    Can't compare to Lawrie McMenemy: now there's a damning phrase if
    ever there was one.

    BARCELONA 1984-87

    Tel's amazing feats in west London caught the attention of Barcelona
    president Josep Lluis Nunez, who was in no way looking for a cheap
    option to replace Cesar Luis Menotti. On the face of it, Tel did
    reasonably well:
    his team won a weak Spanish league in his first
    season, and made the last two of a ****-poor post-Heysel European
    Cup field in his second.

    But his decision-making was more often than not found wanting. He
    chose to sign Steve Archibald ahead of Hugo Sanchez, a man who would
    later become a La Liga legend at Real Madrid. He played a patently
    unfit Archibald in Barca's abject European Cup final defeat at the
    hands of Steaua Bucharest. And he didn't listen to his staff when
    they pleaded with him to rebuild his humiliated team around the
    sublime skills of Ruud Gullit and Marco van Basten, choosing instead
    to sign Gary Lineker (poach!) and Mark Hughes (hoof!).

    By the end of Tel's reign, Barca were being trashed out of sight
    home and away by Dundee United, while Milan's Dutch contingent were
    about to swagger all over Europe. A great continental manager
    indeed.
    TOTTENHAM 1987-91

    Let's put aside the 1991 FA Cup. For a start, Forest should have
    walked the final; and in any case, Tottenham's whole run was down to
    the supernatural feats of one rotund Geordie (and one hell of a
    lucky draw).

    The rest of it? Well, there's all that faffing around in the world
    of business. And boy, could Tel faff. If he wasn't trying to wedge
    his chubby legs and feet
    under the White Hart Lane boardroom table,
    he was spending increasing amounts of time looking after his
    nightclub investments. And singing bad songs. While being discussed
    in depth on Panorama.

    It all came to a head when Alan Sugar tired of Tel's meddling and
    ousted him - but let's not use that to deflect attention from his
    on-the-pitch record. Venables was never able to compensate for the
    loss of key players. Gazza, Chris Waddle, Richard Gough and Neil
    Ruddock were replaced with sub-standard fare, so Spurs under
    Venables drifted aimlessly in mid-table. The excuse was, of course,
    that he had no money to spend. One question: isn't this guy supposed
    to be England's best coach?

    ENGLAND 1994-96

    During the first two years of Tel's stewardship, England played some
    of the most mind-numbing football of all time
    . Friendlies against
    Denmark, Nigeria, Romania, Norway, Uruguay, Sweden, Colombia,
    Bulgaria, Croa... you've slipped into a light coma, haven't you?

    England's Euro 96 team was not a good one. The hosts could only
    honestly claim to have bettered Holland, a team rife with internal
    racial conflict. An unlucky Scotland were only undone by a moment of
    genius, as Paul Gascoigne turned up to salvage Tel's reputation once
    again; the Swiss and Spanish both deserved to win.

    England then played above themselves in their final game before
    going out bravely. This makes Tel nothing special; they always do
    this.
    Although interestingly, the only England manager in recent
    times NOT to preside over a brave departure from a major
    championship is Sven-Goran Eriksson, another man with a reputation
    disproportionate to his ... ah, but that's another story.

    PORTSMOUTH 1996-97

    Brought in as a consultant to revive ailing Portsmouth in August
    1996, Venables treated himself to a 51% stake in the club for a
    solitary pound and took the chairman's reigns. All the while
    attempting to steer Australia to the 1998 World Cup finals in a
    part-time managerial role.

    After less than a year at the club, having struggled to attract the
    investment he hoped for to Fratton Park, El Tel walked away, after a
    bitter wrangle, with around £250,000 for his shareholding. He'd
    reportedly been holding out for £500,000, with Pompey bottom of the
    First Division and losing £150,000 a month.

    Before the compromise was reached, Portsmouth's ever-unpopular
    former chairman Martin Gregory summed it up best: "The time is right
    for Venables to go. He should walk away. I realise I am not the most
    popular person in Portsmouth but things were never this bad."

    AUSTRALIA 1996-97

    Prior to their elimination from the 2002 World Cup, Terry Venables
    was responsible for the darkest hour in Australia's football
    history. Granted, that's really not saying very much, and from a
    Pom's point of view, is really no bad thing either.

    But having won their first 12 games with Venables as manager, the
    Socceroos ripped through their Oceana group and into a two-leg
    play-off with mighty Iran. The Aussies, boasting a team stuffed with
    European-based players, looked to be heading to their first World
    Cup since 1974, particularly after a 1-1 draw in Tehran. And you'd
    have bet your fancy west-end nightspot on them heading to France
    when they found themselves two goals up with just 10 minutes of the
    decider remaining.

    But if you had, you'd be in the market for a new nightspot, as two
    late Iran strikes saw them through on away goals. To this very day,
    El Tel struggles to explain what went wrong.

    CRYSTAL PALACE 1998-99

    Never go back, they say, and on this occasion, they were spot on.
    Perhaps Venables thought he had unfinished business at Palace. Then
    again, call us cynical, but maybe he had another less romantic
    incentive for returning. Perhaps it was the £750,000 net contract he
    was given, more than Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger were earning at
    that time. No wonder Venables crowed: "Palace was my first club as
    manager and now I think it could be my last."

    But by the time of his first Palace game - an InterToto Cup match
    against Samsunspor - El Tel was elsewhere, having taken the evening
    off, claiming to be worn out from his television work during the
    World Cup. Trouble was clearly brewing, and within six months, after
    having voiced concerns that insufficient funds were being made
    available (and with a reported clause in his contract, giving him 2%
    of every transfer sale), Venables had stepped down to become a
    "consultant".

    It was only fair that he left with another sizeable pay-off. It's
    difficult to imagine a more sorry episode than Venables' Portsmouth
    affair, but this was it.

    MIDDLESBROUGH 2000-01

    With the good ship Middlesbrough heading for the rocks with Bryan
    Robson at the wheel, Boro chairman and bankroller Steve Gibson came
    over all sweaty at the prospect of slipping out of the Premiership
    and losing several million pounds in the process.

    Sensing the importance of tactics in the modern game, Gibson asked
    Venables to help out alongside Robson, a variation on their England
    partnership of the mid-1990s. In truth, it was Venables who called
    the shots, and steered Boro to eight wins in 25 matches and clear of
    relegation. He became a saviour on Teeside, though in effect, all
    he'd really proved was that he was a better manager than Bryan
    Robson - a trick even Phil Neal may have pulled off.

    Having proved to his doubters that he'd not lost the old magic, Tel
    declined a full-time contract at Boro for the comfort of a seat next
    to Des Lynam.

    LEEDS 2002-03

    Took a top 5 squad in to relegation trouble by Christmas playing
    Harry Kewell as an out and out striker, Mark Viduka in the hole,
    Erik Bakke as a holding midfielder while ignoring David Batty and
    driving Ollie Dacourt to Italy. Sold Robbie Keane to make way for
    Nick Barmby. Bought Paul Okon.

    Just like at Palace three years' earlier, Tel missed his first game
    in charge of Leeds. What was the problem? He was filming for the
    BBC's Holiday programme. Some things never change.
    This is not one bit lopsided. A very unbias piece of work indeed

    I couldn't be bothered highligting any more extremely bias and debatable comments
    Last edited by lionelhutz; 28/11/2007 at 10:05 AM.

  2. #342
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    Calling him Del Boy on gift grub is an injustice to Del Boy.

    I would not leave El Tel wash my car, no mind manage the Country I love.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    This is not one bit lopsided. A very unbias piece of work indeed

    I couldn't be bothered highligting any more extremely bias and debatable comments
    It's supossed to be tounge in cheek.

    It does raise some pertinent questions though and is based on fact.

    It may be slightly biased but point out anything that's not true in it.

  4. #344
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    Has sufficient opposition to Venables been voiced or is he a total shoe-in?

    Who is Dunphy advocating now or is he just saying no to Venables?

    I haven’t spoken to one person positive about Venables, the most positive remark I’ve heard being that he’d be better than Stan (true I suppose).

    Lawrenson gave him backing of sorts in Monday’s Irish Times. I keep hearing “he’s real football man”. There are hundreds who meet that criterion.

  5. #345
    First Team citizenerased's Avatar
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    there seems to be a mass campaign of pro venables propaganda in the media...strange that most football correspondents are pro venables!!, yet the vast majority of the general public are very much ant-venables!
    'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch

  6. #346
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    that apres match compilation is class. Venables laughing like a flute. very funny.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  7. #347
    First Team Jerry The Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    I haven’t spoken to one person positive about Venables, the most positive remark I’ve heard being that he’d be better than Stan (true I suppose).
    Despite the negativity, there's no question he's a better manager than Staunton (would be extremely difficult not to be).

    Still interesting that the prospect of Staunton becoming manager last time out had 25% support on here vs. less than 9% support for Venables.

    If Townsend is appointed to the selection committee it casts a lot of doubt on the Venables/Townsend dream team being a "done deal" as was said on here. Of course, no one would be shocked if Townsend pulled a Dick Cheney and selected himself but, in the current climate, even Delaney could see that such a move would bring a sh-tstorm of criticism.
    SIGNATURESCOPE

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenerased View Post
    there seems to be a mass campaign of pro venables propaganda in the media...strange that most football correspondents are pro venables!!, yet the vast majority of the general public are very much ant-venables!
    It's not strange at all. Venables has cultivated relationships with journalists his entire career and that's what's built his reputation. He actually opened a nightclub in London where all teh journalists over there used to hang out and went so far as to call it 'Scribes'. No negativity sticks to him because his pals in the media brush it under the carpet. Look at the way he managed to remove himsellf from the neagativity around England's exit with some choice leaks to favoured journalists over there. Bad journlists such as Paul Hyland and Roy Curtis believe what their contempories in the UK write and swallow the myth. Plus he's very media friendly, always has a quip and a soundbite to fill column inches. That's of far more importance to the bulk of (bad) sports journalists over here then the future of the team or the feelings of the fans.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er View Post
    It's supossed to be tounge in cheek.

    It does raise some pertinent questions though and is based on fact.

    It may be slightly biased but point out anything that's not true in it.
    You said Englands euor 96 team "wasn't a good one". It was an excellent team with the likes of Seaman, Neville, Adams, Southgate, Ince, Shearer, Sherringham all in great form. Fowler couldn't even get a sniff and he was banging in 30 goals a season at the time. I know this doesn't exactly show Venables is a good manager but you said they were a bad team - implying it was his fault.

    You also said Scotland were unlucky - besides the penalty miss they were totally outplayed. Go back and watch it again. You said the Swiss and spanish should also have beaten them - again, the Swiss was match just a poor game overall with neither side playing great and although the Spanish kept possession well, they didn't create anything of note.

    After that you said England performed above themselves against Germany - which you gave no credit to Venables because "every recent England team goes out on a high besides Eriksson's". Not true - Keegans team in 2000 went out without a whimper and Taylor didn't even qualify in '94.

    I'm just citing his England team as an example, as it would be most relevant as it's an international team
    Last edited by lionelhutz; 28/11/2007 at 11:03 AM.

  10. #350
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    They did batter Germany in the SF, first time I ever had sympathy for the Germans and hoped they held out.

  11. #351
    Capped Player Schumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Fowler couldn't even get a sniff
    That'd be a first.
    We're not arrogant, we're just better.

  12. #352
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    Spain had a stonewall penalty declined late on.

    I think England had a decent tournament but rode their luck at times and I honestly think it's hard to give Venables great credit for having good players and home advantage.

    I'd like a manager with experience of going to difficult places and getting results. Someone who has successfully navigated qualification.

    In my opinion, qualifying for a tournament is actually harder than making phase 2 of a finals.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Spain had a stonewall penalty declined late on.
    Didn't Salinas score a perfectly good goal for Spain in the golden goal extra time period that was ruled out for offside even though it was about a yard onside?

    How the English forget that when they mention how unlucky they were to not win the tournament.

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    You said Englands euor 96 team "wasn't a good one". It was an excellent team with the likes of Seaman, Neville, Adams, Southgate, Ince, Shearer, Sherringham all in great form. Fowler couldn't even get a sniff and he was banging in 30 goals a season at the time. I know this doesn't exactly show Venables is a good manager but you said they were a bad team - implying it was his fault.

    You also said Scotland were unlucky - besides the penalty miss they were totally outplayed. Go back and watch it again. You said the Swiss and spanish should also have beaten them - again, the Swiss was match just a poor game overall with neither side playing great and although the Spanish kept possession well, they didn't create anything of note.

    After that you said England performed above themselves against Germany - which you gave no credit to Venables because "every recent England team goes out on a high besides Eriksson's". Not true - Keegans team in 2000 went out without a whimper and Taylor didn't even qualify in '94.

    I'm just citing his England team as an example, as it would be most relevant as it's an international team
    Can't agree with any of that, Scotland were well in that game and would've got a draw had McAllister scored that penalty imo. The swiss were defitely the better team on the day (and they were a poor side, only there due to their manager at the time who we should be after), England were very poor that game. As for Spain, they had 2 perfectly good goals disallowed for offside when neither were even close and a stonewall penalty not given, how you can say they created nothing of note is beyond me. Seaman also pulled off some great saves and was by far the busier keeper

    Fair enough on Euro 2000, as for 94 I'd say it was obvious that we're talking about major finals here. As I said, it's a tongue in cheek article from a few years back and what they're referencing there is the likes of WC 86 & 90. You could also apply it to WC 2006 against Portugal. Euro 96 has been totally rewritten, England were very poor and looked a bad team for 3 of the 5 games.

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngirish View Post
    Didn't Salinas score a perfectly good goal for Spain in the golden goal extra time period that was ruled out for offside even though it was about a yard onside?
    That was mentioned on here but I don't remember it so I didn't post it. Gazza tripped a guy as he went past him in the box and no penalty, a real home team decision.

    If they were league games England played 5, won 2, drew 3 (and could have been a draw with Scotland). All with home advantage. If we had similar form in qualifying that'd be nowhere near good enough. Not exactly like with like, but I'd guess that that's one of the poorest England home records of any recent manager.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngirish View Post
    Didn't Salinas score a perfectly good goal for Spain in the golden goal extra time period that was ruled out for offside even though it was about a yard onside?

    How the English forget that when they mention how unlucky they were to not win the tournament.
    Yep, that was at least a yard onside and there was another more marginal one in normal time that the officials also got wrong.

  17. #357
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    4 men arrested in London relating to football corruption.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    4 men arrested in London relating to football corruption.
    He's 64, none of the guys arrested were.

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    That was mentioned on here but I don't remember it so I didn't post it. Gazza tripped a guy as he went past him in the box and no penalty, a real home team decision.
    I just looked it up. Apparently it didn't happen at the end of the game but near the end of the first half. Strange. I thought it was later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er View Post
    He actually opened a nightclub in London where all teh journalists over there used to hang out and went so far as to call it 'Scribes'..

    The name was more to do with his 'career' as a writer than his (undeniable) mateyness with journos, using it as he did as a launchpad for both his autobiography, and the re-issue of "Hazell" (T. Venables - Co-creater & Co-Writer) on video & in print in the 90's.
    On the way into the stadium, an elderly San Marino Steward waved us in and said "Tonight, may the best team win"

    And they nearly did.

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