Election 2007

[GavinZac]

Nice the way you focus on the highest earner of all my friends and skip over all the rest of us, with that sort of logic you could be an economist

Because you were implying i was saying he was some sort of Aryan overlord, when in fact, he's just not an unskilled worker currently employed in a shop. I'm trying my best not to come off elitist but do you think that is the national average?

Not going to do economy by the way (thank god says you ) I'm going to further pursue the IT section of my free university course, Business Informations Systems. Either going to shoot for marketing or for programming.

I think you'll find I never once said I had a purchasing power of 32k, jesus for an economist you don't even know how to deal with arguments involving figures do you? Last word on this from me Gavin, you're a idiot

That should (obviously) have read "and I don't have purchasing parity power 32k"

forgive me, its late and i'm getting deja vu

[Lim till i die]

Last word on this from me Gavin, you're a idiot

Seconded

[jebus]

Seconded

Actually I'll add that I hope Dahamsta, in the interest of showing the mentality of a Fianna Fail voter, will not bin the parts of this debate that have gone off topic tonight (honestly we tried keeping it on topic this time!)

[Lim till i die]

Business Informations Systems. Either going to shoot for marketing or for programming.

Currently doing something very similar

If you want some friendly advice (Jesus why do I bother) although there are lots of jobs in I.T (for the moment) the programming side of things can be a real drag if your coming from a purely business background and you're really going to need to buckle down at it

[GavinZac]

Last word on this from me Gavin, you're a idiot

Seconded

How ironic. Anyway, attack the points not the poster, please.

If you want some friendly advice (Jesus why do I bother) although there are lots of jobs in I.T (for the moment) the programming side of things can be a real drag if your coming from a purely business background and you're really going to need to buckle down at it

yeah, but i'm a bit weird in that i usually enjoy programming. B.I.S does a fair bit of it and I've done some on my work placement so all going well might tie down a full time contract there over the summer.

See, its nice to be friendly! Politicals, and worse, economics, isn't supposed to be personal.

[Lim till i die]

Actually I'll add that I hope Dahamsta, in the interest of showing the mentality of a Fianna Fail voter, will not bin the parts of this debate that have gone off topic tonight (honestly we tried keeping it on topic this time!)

Either that or we've finally gotten those life bans we so richly deserve

[Lim till i die]

How ironic. Anyway, attack the points not the poster, please.

Without pointing out the irony in that (Jesus Christ you're too easy) I see what you did there. Wow, you're so much better than us

This Guy

[Lim till i die]

yeah, but i'm a bit weird in that i usually enjoy programming. B.I.S does a fair bit of it and I've done some on my work placement so all going well might tie down a full time contract there over the summer.

Kinda like VB myself despite being definitely set on a financial course for the rest of my studies (touch wood)

See, you're not that different to me, you can be saved

[GavinZac]

See, you're not that different to me, you can be saved

Ok, since we're done arguing about whether or not the IMF's Purchasing Power Parity per Capita chart is accurate/valuable, who will you be voting for? How would you sell them to an upper middle class socialist like myself? I haven't decided on anyone beyond my first place vote and I don't particularly like the two FF candidates in my area (mind you, the FG candidate gave me detention once) so I'm open to pursuasion.

[Macy]

They tried to stop people from frittering away the money by using the SSIA scheme to tie up money. It worked for the most part, and hopefully people will use some of the return to pay the debts they've gathered.

I think you've forgotten that SSIA's were actually introduced by McCreevy after he got bóllocked by the European Bank for a give away budget just before the last election. You remember, another one of those where the Government reduced the top rate rather than take people out of the tax net (at the time, minimum wage was still taxed).

There is no free education in this country, right down to primary level.

Any average figure, particularly when it comes to stuff like salaries, is nonsense without the median as well. Any average pay calculation is pretty flawed in this country anyway as it works on the assumption that everything is through the books and ignores the abuses of supposed sub contracting. Hence why they claim that displacement and exploitation aren't happening.

[Lim till i die]

Ok, since we're done arguing about whether or not the IMF's Purchasing Power Parity per Capita chart is accurate/valuable, who will you be voting for? How would you sell them to an upper middle class socialist like myself? I haven't decided on anyone beyond my first place vote and I don't particularly like the two FF candidates in my area (mind you, the FG candidate gave me detention once) so I'm open to pursuasion.

I'll be voting far left with my first preference after that I'll be just trying to keep Fianna Fail out of government with my transfers.

I believe there should be higher tax rates for better public services. Only problem in this country is that you have clowns like Martin Cullen so I worry that the result of higher tax would simply be higher piddling away of money

Sell them to you?? I doubt I could give them to you for nothing

[GavinZac]

I think you've forgotten that SSIA's were actually introduced by McCreevy after he got bóllocked by the European Bank for a give away budget just before the last election. You remember, another one of those where the Government reduced the top rate rather than take people out of the tax net (at the time, minimum wage was still taxed).

It may have been "after" that, but it wasn't "because" of that.

There is no free education in this country, right down to primary level.

explain? what will the government think about their money not being used, apparantly?

Any average figure, particularly when it comes to stuff like salaries, is nonsense without the median as well. Any average pay calculation is pretty flawed in this country anyway as it works on the assumption that everything is through the books and ignores the abuses of supposed sub contracting. Hence why they claim that displacement and exploitation aren't happening.

PPP isn't about salaries, its about raw purchasing power. My point from earlier that obviously went over the two lad's heads is that even if our figure is over-inflated, the same could be said for the nation in 2nd or 3rd place. the largest frequency would probably be below the average for them too. Thats why our ranking still holds up.

[WeAreRovers]

Jebus and Lim Till i Die - I realise that parts of Limerick are fooked but to say that people aren't better off now than 10 years ago is utter nonsense.

Everyone I know is better off including my friend in Limerick who works in retail and has just bought a house - which would have been impossible 10 or 20 years ago.

I'm 37 and I remember the 80s when virtually everyone who left my school emigrated. Now we have net-immigration into the strongest economy in Europe. Which is what people will remember when the cast their ballot, not Enda Kenny's hysterical scare-mongering about crime and daft promises about health.

KOH

[GavinZac]

Jebus and Lim Till i Die - I realise that parts of Limerick are fooked but to say that people aren't better off now than 10 years ago is utter nonsense.

The most bizarre thing was that they said limerick was having it tough, i agreed that limerick was having it tough and suggested a reason, and then they had a go at me for saying it was having it tough and gave lots of reasons they reckon they're not having it tough.

[Dodge]

Everyone I know is better off including my friend in Limerick who works in retail and has just bought a house - which would have been impossible 10 or 20 years ago.

It would've been if he was allowed borrow 100% of the mortgage and allowed pay it back over 40 years*


*I realise this may not be the case with your mate

[Lim till i die]

Jebus and Lim Till i Die - I realise that parts of Limerick are fooked but to say that people aren't better off now than 10 years ago is utter nonsense.

You can't use "people" and just imply that everyone's better off. I wouldn't dispute for a second that certain sectors of society are much better off but there are other parts which aren't

The most bizarre thing was that they said limerick was having it tough, i agreed that limerick was having it tough and suggested a reason, and then they had a go at me for saying it was having it tough and gave lots of reasons they reckon they're not having it tough.

What actually happened Gavin my dear is I was using the area of Limerick I'm from as an example but then you dived in two footed to tar the whole city

[WeAreRovers]

It would've been if he was allowed borrow 100% of the mortgage and allowed pay it back over 40 years*


*I realise this may not be the case with your mate

True, he's a she.

Don't know the ins-and-outs of her mortgage but she moved back to a vibrant up and coming city and is now a home-owner. 10 years ago she was forced to leave Limerick along with most of her mates. They are now returning in droves.

One look at Limerick city centre would tell anyone that the place has changed for the better. The same goes for all of our towns and cities. Yet things are worse according to some posters.

KOH

[Lim till i die]

Yet things are worse according to some posters.

In certain areas - Sigh.............

Wasn't the area around our old ground described as Fallujah like by your travelling fans?

[Lim till i die]

PPP isn't about salaries, its about raw purchasing power. My point from earlier that obviously went over the two lad's heads is that even if our figure is over-inflated, the same could be said for the nation in 2nd or 3rd place. the largest frequency would probably be below the average for them too. Thats why our ranking still holds up.

Indeed

My lord why didn't I figure that out before

[Calcio Jack]

Jebus and Lim Till i Die - I realise that parts of Limerick are fooked but to say that people aren't better off now than 10 years ago is utter nonsense.

Everyone I know is better off including my friend in Limerick who works in retail and has just bought a house - which would have been impossible 10 or 20 years ago.

I'm 37 and I remember the 80s when virtually everyone who left my school emigrated. Now we have net-immigration into the strongest economy in Europe. Which is what people will remember when the cast their ballot, not Enda Kenny's hysterical scare-mongering about crime and daft promises about health.

KOH

I'm 48..... managed to buy my first house for £16k in 1981. Have been in continous gainful employment for last 27 years. So I'm one of the lucky ones because I've benefited from the rise in property prices and have been fortunate enough to have a had a very well paid career for a long number of years... however I will not be voting FF/PD for the following reasons.

(1)they have actively encouraged a two tier society... the likes of me who got into the property market when prices were cheap.... as against anyone under 35 who is now forced to take on huge mortgages for terms up to 40 years to buy shoddy homes miles outside of Dublin which means they have a huge commute. Where there is a couple involved they are restricted as to how many kids they can have because of the fear of being able to aford them...and when they do have kids they don't have the option of one parent staying at home to rear them and thus are forced to leave them in (many cases) crap creches from 6.30am to 6.30pm five days per week.

To avoid the above all they had to do was (1) implement the Kenny report which recommended capping the price of development land at its agri valu plus 25%. (2) Tax any investor on an increasing scale on their 2nd , 3rdetc houses. (3) Ensure that proper transport/schools etc infrastructures were put in place put in place.

(2) There is still a huge amount of "real" poverty in this country...approx 1 in 5 people. Despite that FF/PDs were able to give billions to the middle classes via the SSIA scheme (and yes I do have one) instead of diverting that money to the poor.

(3) The worsening levels of service provided by Angola ie our Health Service. Again lots of money spent but wasted. The MRSA levels increasing says it all as of course do the war zones that are known as our A&E depts.

(4) The great sell out by FF to various 3rd parties eg
(i) NTR, surely someone with even a gnats brain would of put in a clause which would of triggered a reduction in NTRs take in the event of x number of vehicles passing through...instead we are left with the taxpayer havig to cough up a fortune to buy them out. Interesting that Ray Bourke and George Redmond were the ones who agreed the NTR contract

(5) The sell of of off shore licences forthe Mayo coast to Statoil and BP for a pittaance with no come back in the event of a major viable gas/oil field been discovered.... contracts in this case negoiated by Bertie A and P Flynn.

(6) Failure in other areas, water pollution, nursing homes for the elderly, sell out to the Catholic hierarchy by capping their liability at only €150m and the States now having to pay out in excess of €850m and rising. Benching marking for public servants which was done without any transparancy at a huge cost to the taxpayer with no visable sign of any increase in produtivity etc.

(7) Bertie's gubu personal finance transactions...

(8) Our huge and growing larger obesity (excuse the pun) problem... adults I accept are responsible forthemselves but IMO more needs to be done by the state to ensure that children are given the chance of excercising properly...surely it is a no brainer to introduce some element of compulsory PE into the school curriculum ??

and that's just an off the top of the head list !!

Maybe no one cares enough and I sometimes wonder is it that fact that FF/PDs have tapped into and they reckon there are more seats to be gained by promising "goodies" like SSIAs etc rather than trying to focus on the social issues... so sure as a nation we are materially better off than when I was a kid , regretfully IMO as a nation we now seem to be without much of a conscience when it comes to social matters...I 'm not saying we were a great society 30/40/50 years ago and indeed the the magnitude of the evils of those times has become clear to us and I'm very happy to see the influence of the Church diminished greatly... I just think its a pity that now we have all this wealth we don't seem to be capable of sharing it in an equitable manner.