Back above Northern Ireland

[lopez]

I believe you already are registered on OWC?

I'm not registered on ourweeminds and never have been. Up until a year or two ago, I was a regular 'viewer'.

Instead of running back here with tales of the unexpected, I'm surprised that a man of your intellect does not put his case on the OWC Board.

It's pointless talking to many of the muppets on there, when the main man's, visit here just showed what a pointless exercise it would be. When asked why he put up military insignia on his website - something EG was previously crowing about Irish fans, but incidently did nothing - unlike Gather Round - to challenge with the army groupie - or that the website allowed an article that claimed Irish fans in Japan were thieving travellers, his reply was 'if it p*sses people like you off, that's a bonus.'

Generally NI and IL fans that come on here, want to discuss without insulting and picking on people. I don't agree with everything they say, but at least I can't accuse them of winding people up. EG is different. A self styled cyber bruiser that's making relations between NI and ROI fans worse. If that's what you like, then fine. You have plenty to say about me here, but are quiet on the EG front. Are words like 'beggar' are perfectly acceptable, even though you yourself know that there is more than a distant link with words you wouldn't use like Taig and Fenian?

I'm quite sure some of the natives would be only too happy to indulge you in some "sport"..

I'm sure they would.

The personal abuse that you frequently dish out to EG, tells me that the match wouldn't last too long tho..

You're right. Unlike this forum which allows bigots to use terms such as 'beggars' with aplomb, the Army Groupie wouldn't allow me to stay on too long without a ban. To be honest, unlike EG, I haven't the time to go on other fans' website, let alone - in footballing terms at least - one I have no interest in. And yet, however brief it would be, I'm sure I'd ruin a few people's day.

Dishing out personal abuse does you, or your arguements, no benefit whatsoever and portrays you as a very angry man.

Well thanks for that Doc.

[EalingGreen]

brilliant. one of the premierships top scorers isnt a patch on a reserve player for one of the worst teams in the championship, who has never even played in the premiership? you're completely wrong.

If I were a club manager looking for a striker, I'm sure I'd sign e.g. Keane or Doyle ahead of Healy.
But that's not what's at issue here. We're talking about international football, where Healy's record, over more than 50 caps gained over several years, in a mostly mediocre team (at best), often against the highest opposition, is simply outstanding.
Now I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, but the Statistics back it up, the video record backs it up and impartial and qualified judges (e.g. on the Texaco Panel) back it up.
What does it take to convince some of you guys? It's like that sketch in the "Life of Brian": What did Healy (the Romans) ever do for us?
Apart from scoring goals whenever's he's played. And carrying the team half the time. And always turning out, even when not fully fit, for meaningless games, when there was nothing at stake. And never giving less than 100% effort. And smashing our all-time scoring record out of sight. And playing 35 consecutive games before an appalling sending off deprived him of the chance of setting a record for that. And remaining modest and a genuine team-man throughout. And always acknowledging his fans/family etc. And maintaining an excellent disciplinary record, despite getting kicked up and down by huge great defenders every game. And refusing to get involved in any way when some petty local councillor tried to make a political issue about some playing fields to be named after him in his home town.
Apart from that, what has he ever done for us?

[EalingGreen]

Kingdom Hoop is talking about Doyle (who's from "this island") of course Ealing Green, Just thought I'd let you know, because all your statements smack of ignorance. Statements like that about Healy are completely outlandish. Wait for a steady stream of stats to flow in that perfectly illustrate the truth about this mediocre "superstar" of yours. I never hear you going on about how good he was during that ridiculous goalless streak of the Sammy McIllroy Halcyon days, or why he left United with a whimper, or why he can't get a game at Leeds etc etc.

Doyle certainly look a good player, who's come a long way in a short time. But he's yet to do anything in international football.
As for Healy, he never hid, complained or gave less than 100% during the long, dark scoreless days when McIlroy packed the defence and midfield and played Healy virtually on his own up front, with no service, in a terrible team.
That, to me, is to Healy's credit (and is in marked contrast to what some ROI fans are saying about the attitude of the likes of Keane, Carr or O'Shea)
He left MU for the same reasons as e.g. McShane: as a youngster, he couldn't get a place ahead of established stars. And he can't get a game at Leeds because he's got a broken elbow.

[Not Brazil]

Are words like 'beggar' are perfectly acceptable, even though you yourself know that there is more than a distant link with words you wouldn't use like Taig and Fenian?

Absolute rubbish.

I have detailed elsewhere my understanding of the origins of the term "beggar", as used by some Northern Ireland fans in relation to ROI players.

In no way would I link it with words like "taig" or "fenian".

That YOU choose to, displays a paranoia that you are all to quick to identify in others.

Your petty personal gripes with individuals really does belittle your arguements.

Just merely an observation.

PS: There must be a "lopez" impersonator registered on OWC then.

[lopez]

Absolute rubbish.I have detailed elsewhere my understanding of the origins of the term "beggar", as used by some Northern Ireland fans in relation to ROI players.:

And there was me expecting something better from you. Just shows. Thanks for that. Your in the same category as EG: A bigot.

BTW, where are your understanding of the origins of the word 'Taig' and 'Fenian'. I mean Taig is the English writing of Teague. Pretty mundane I'd have thought. Fenian, also pretty mundane in origins. As has been pointed out to you and the other bigot, not only by myself but another poster too, the word 'beggar' has far more deeper meaning than either of the above regarding modern Irish history. But then again this is more causing offence 'being a bonus.'

PS: There must be a "lopez" impersonator registered on OWC then.

I wouldn't be an impersonator. I'd go on as myself. And as you said, I'd make sure my stay was short and sharp and caused as much damage as possible. The fact that someone else feels the need to 'have a go' doesn't surprise me in the least judging by some... sorry, most of the posters on such drivel as the 'Darkside' thread.

[EalingGreen]

..would you mind not using that term. I've already informed you that its origins are rooted in the famine. You may have used it initially in ignorance (you claimed so), but obviously you still don't feel disinclined to refrain from pitching the insult here.

If I thought that the term had any reference to the Famine, there is no way I would continue to use that term. After all, the famine devastated not only large parts of what is now the Irish Republic, but actually cut a terrible swathe through the whole of the island, affecting every creed in every county, including my own.

But you have not "informed" me of anything, since your information [sic] is bumkum. Then again, you're not alone in falling for myths which suit your own particular agenda. Lopez for example, assures me that the term actually originated with Rangers supporters taunting their rivals about the origins of Celtic (Bro.Walfrid, charity, helping the poor etc). Perhaps you might get together and get your story straight?

By far the most persuasive explanation I have heard is that it derives from the Jack Charlton era, when the FAI was "begging" players the length and breadth of the British Isles to remember their dear old Kerry Grandmammy's dying wish and play for Oireland, in preference to the Saxon invader etc etc etc.
The fact that the first use of the term dates from that period (15-20 years ago), whereas the Famine was 150 years ago, and the ROI is over 80 years old, rather backs this up.

In the meantime, we shall add your version to the "Great Book of Myths which Idiots insist on Believing about the NI football team".
This long and growing Volume already includes such gems as:
"The Bouncy" is a taunting reference to the shocking murder of Robert Hammill, even though its first use predates his death by a couple of decades;
The IFA flies the Union Flag over Windsor specifically to remind Nationalists of their place (it doesn't);
Windsor Park was named after the British Royal Family, even though it was built in 1905, over a decade before the Battenburgs (or was it Saxe-Coburg-Gothas?) changed their name;
Billy Bingham personally used to lead the team in singing sectarian songs (pretty unusual behaviour for a man who made Martin O'Neill his captain and had a Falls Road Catholic as Best Man at his wedding)
The IFA tried to force players to carry a UK Passport (when they, in fact, lobbied FIFA successfully to obtain an exemption from the Rules so that they don't have to carry one)

Anyhow, it was "Super Danny Griffin" who scored that day in Dublin, so there!

[EalingGreen]

Healy will be an average striker in league one next year but I'm sure he'll remain a hero for you

You may be right about Leeds getting relegated. You may be right that Healy will stay with them if they are (though personally I doubt it). You may even be right that he will be "average" in that division (though I can't really see that myself).
But you're 100% correct that he'll still be a hero of mine.
You see, that's because I support NI, not Leeds United, thank goodness*.


(* - On both counts )

[Not Brazil]

And there was me expecting something better from you. Just shows. Thanks for that. Your in the same category as EG: A bigot.

BTW, where are your understanding of the origins of the word 'Taig' and 'Fenian'. I mean Taig is the English writing of Teague. Pretty mundane I'd have thought. Fenian, also pretty mundane in origins. As has been pointed out to you and the other bigot, not only by myself but another poster too, the word 'beggar' has far more deeper meaning than either of the above regarding modern Irish history. But then again this is more causing offence 'being a bonus.'

Well lopez, if you say I'm a bigot, then I must be a bigot eh?

I do not know, nor do I care, what the origins of the terms "taig" and "fenian" are - they are not words that I use.

The term "beggar" has "deeper meaning", only because you perceive it to have.

I have told you, honestly and frankly, my understanding of how it came to be used in a footballing context.

I care not about your religious beliefs - I am one of the lucky ones who couldn't hold a discussion about the slight differences in teaching by very similar strands of exactly the same religion. I don't understand them, and I don't want to know about them.

Perhaps you use the term "bigot" in a different sense?

[lopez]

...In the meantime, we shall add your version to the "Great Book of Myths which Idiots insist on Believing about the NI football team"...

Along with:

NI is a country.
NI are higher in the FIFA rankings than Ireland.
NI has better players.
Nationalists in the O6C can only play for NI.
Nationalists in the O6C must only play for NI.
Nationalists would support us if we weren't so sh*t.
Nationalists are now supporting us because we aren't as sh*t as we were.
Nationalists want to play for us.
Ireland is our nearest rival.
The FAI are poaching our players.
The FAI are using bungs to entice our players.
Sinn Fein councillors and community workers are putting pressure on Nationalists not to play for NI.
The FAI are bigots because they aren't poaching Protestant/Unionist players.
NI have never played anyone that hasn't at least one grandparent from the O6C.
The IFA has never 'begged' anyone to play for them in the same way we accuse the FAI of doing.
NI players can cross international borders without passports.
We've always loved Lawrie Sanchez.

[EalingGreen]

Passport eligibility prior to the GFA was confined to those whose grandparent was born in Ireland prior to 1922 - no insult intended, but maybe you were too young to have applied for a passport prior to 1998 - which would have omitted future generations from their right to hold an Irish passport if their forefathers hadn't held one (those of Unionist descent). To their credit Irish embassies said b*llocks to that rule. An example was given to me by an official in Chapel St, London of an Indian doctor and his wife in 1994 who got his son an Irish passport, despite him being born in the Belfast.

All very well and this explains why, for instance, Spike Milligan got an Irish Passport, rather than a British one. But I'm fcuked if I can see what relevance this has to FIFA, and their Rules on eligibility for international football.

EG brought up location with livehead. He has other obsessions too. My English birth is obviously understandable as it makes me in his eyes a real Brit rather than a plastic one that he is. (He might not know it in NI, but f*ck me, he'd certainly know it in London) However my rejection of the lottery ticket of life seems to seriously p*ss him off. Aaaaahhhh!!! He also has an obsession with my 'beloved' Spain too. Frankly, who can blame him. She's boootiful.

As for our respective origins, I continue to bring it up since it amuses me to be told by you on this very site that I, as someone born and reared in Ireland, am less of an Irishman than you, born and reared in England. As for your rejection of your joint British heritage, it doesn't p*ss me off in the slightest - the UK can manage quite alright without your contribution (so long as you continue to pay your taxes to the Crown). And Spain is, indeed, a wonderful country - but I already know that from regular visits down the years.

It's nearer to Windsor Park than the 'Irish Republic' (sic.)

Calais is closer to Wembley than e.g to Paris, but that doesn't make the UK a "closer" neighbour of France than Spain, Belgium, Switzerland or Germany. (Well, unless you live in the geographically-challenged world of Lopez, that is)


They have more bearing on your obsession with us as your 'nearest (sic.) rivals.' From a purely footballing rivalry they would be first choice. However you and your scummy bigoted brethren are inventing a rivalry that is based more on what Sylvo said in his post than football. Your continual use of 'beggar' merely confirms what a pathetic little bigoted sh*te you are.

I have addressed my (infrequent) use of the term "Beggar" elsewhere.

It wouldn't be if the gutless British government of 1914 practiced what they preached. The fact it is merely confims that the choice of nationalists re NI and Ireland is one of Britain and Ireland. FIFA agree too. Funny, I don't know the muppet's name in the IFA who thinks he's doing a great job stopping Irish people playing for their own country, but ask yourself this, with all this 'we've got the best players this' and 'the better players that', who would you rather have? Gibson et al or the refugee who had never heard of ourweecountry (sic.) Maik Taylor. Because if you are going down that road, perhaps FIFA might start looking at the anomalies of some of the NI players and their lack of connections and residency of the NI. But then that lack of foresight is why I call you and your mates 'ourweeminds'.

I really have no idea what that last little mini-rant is meant to prove. FIFA explicitly recognises the right of the four "Home" countries to continue to field their own teams in international competition. Not only that, but they have made specific provision for players like Taylor (or Channel Islander Le Tissier, for instance) who hold a British Passport entirely properly, but have no direct connection with one of those Associations.
Why don't you write to FIFA, if you think Taylor is breaking the eligibility rules, rather than banging on about it here?

[lopez]

...I care not about your religious beliefs - I am one of the lucky ones who couldn't hold a discussion about the slight differences in teaching by very similar strands of exactly the same religion. I don't understand them, and I don't want to know about them.

Perhaps you use the term "bigot" in a different sense?

You think that the thirty years of the troubles and the remaining existence of 'peace' lines is down to religion?

[geysir]

Passport eligibility prior to the GFA was confined to those whose grandparent was born in Ireland prior to 1922 -

This is what I was writing about.
"The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956 applied an entitlement to citizenship by birth to anyone born in Northern Ireland either before or after the coming into force of that Act. Anyone born in Northern Ireland on or before the 31 December 2004 is entitled to be an Irish citizen if they choose to be."

[lopez]

...Why don't you write to FIFA, if you think Taylor is breaking the eligibility rules, rather than banging on about it here?

If you are going to respond to people's quotes at least read them first properly.

...ask yourself this, with all this 'we've got the best players this' and 'the better players that', who would you rather have? Gibson et al or the refugee who had never heard of ourweecountry (sic.) Maik Taylor. Because if you are going down that road, perhaps FIFA might start looking at the anomalies of some of the NI players and their lack of connections and residency of the NI...

[EalingGreen]

. Sweeet.

Have you got on u-tube any clips of the three goals scored by Ronnie, Rayo and Cas in 89, Stan's corner in 93, Roy Keane and Alan Mac dancing around the pitch at Windsor park on hearing the news we were off to America, as well as the four goals put passed you in 94 ( I belive the last one of the four was scored to a near empty ground) .

Maybe you could show us some clips from u-tube of people being batoned of the streets by the RUC, or clips of them being hemmed into their homes by rows of land rovers, show us some clips of little girls being pelted with everything from pipe bombs to urine while on their way to school as the forces of law and order just let it happen, and then you can see why some people don't feel like playing for or supporting your vile little football team.

Ah, poor Sylvo. There I was thinking you'd finally got the hang of this football messageboard mullarkey, when your response to a footballing post with a footballing post of your own. Indeed, I was impressed by the extent of your historical recall about great games from decades past (even if some of them were nearer the era of Black and White TV than "YouTube")

Then I read your second paragraph. Oh dear. You really should try to distinguish between footballing and non-footballing matters. And once you've done so, then you can post the former on this Board and the latter on "Slugger O'Toole", or somesuch, since that is a much more appropriate forum for that sort of shoite.

[lopez]

This is what I was writing about.
"The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956 applied an entitlement to citizenship by birth to anyone born in Northern Ireland either before or after the coming into force of that Act. Anyone born in Northern Ireland on or before the 31 December 2004 is entitled to be an Irish citizen if they choose to be."

I was aware that prior to the GFA, passports were only (supposedly) granted to those with an Irish grandparent born before 1922, as listed on the section of the passport application form dealing with applicants from the O6C. The GFA allowed everyone born in the north the right to become an Irish citizen until the 2004 referendum eliminated Ius Soli from Irish citizenship law.

[Not Brazil]

You think that the thirty years of the troubles and the remaining existence of 'peace' lines is down to religion?

No, I don't.

[EalingGreen]

If we're just talking about potential then Stokes, Gibson (United's young player of the year last year ahead of ur mate Evans though you'll probably choose to ignore that), J O'Brien, Garvan, Long, Supple, Mc Geady, Chris McCann, O'Dea, Ireland, Keogh, Clarke, Best, Ward, O'Donovan, S Quinn (I could go on for ever) are all better or at least equally as good prospects as Evans. Then again I suppose you also have Kyle Lafferty (a player who Chris McCann is younger than and rated more highly than at Burnley that gets into the North's first team - McCann as we all know is a regular for the Republic). And if you want to argue whether McCann is rated more highly than Lafferty at Burnley then just have a look at who won their young player of the year last year along with 4 other accolades from the supporters and the club. Here's a clue it wasn't Lafferty, I don't think he got a single one.

You're so biased you no longer inhabit reality as far as football is concerned. Sweden the end of March will give you a reality check if Liechenstein don't manage to do it beforehand. I have nothing against the North personally. I just believe their players are for the most part sh*te and they have been punching well above their weight for the last 3 games. Obviously the 3-0 home loss against Iceland the game before has been long since forgotten by you. Healy was brilliant in that game.

The first paragraph is your opinion and you're entitled to it. My opinion differs.

As for your second paragraph, we could well get beaten by Sweden in March. God knows, we could even get beaten by Lickystein before then (as I've already acknowledged on this Board). And I have not forgotten our defeat by Iceland.
But notwithstanding that my team has been on the up for three years now (not three matches), it won't affect my support for the team. Nor would such results cause me to excoriate the players so viciously as some of the posters on this Board have done for their ROI counterparts. Still less would it cause me to throw in the towel and opt to support the "other" Irish team on this island, or campaign for a merger of the two.
That is because I am entirely comfortable in knowing that we are not e.g. Brazil, we're Northern Ireland "and it's all the same to me..."

[EalingGreen]

PS: There must be a "lopez" impersonator registered on OWC then.

Indeed. In fact, I've seen this mysterious "Lopez" lurking on OWC myself in the last couple of weeks. Still, if our Cockney Lopez decides to post on the site, I'm sure he'll choose a suitable moniker to let us know who he really is. "Continuity Lopez", perhaps?

[lopez]

No, I don't.

So what's with the diatribe about 'I care not about your religious beliefs - I am one of the lucky ones who couldn't hold a discussion about the slight differences in teaching by very similar strands of exactly the same religion. I don't understand them, and I don't want to know about them.'?

[lopez]

...Nor would such results cause me to excoriate the players so viciously as some of the posters on this Board have done for their ROI counterparts...

Players are not necessarily 'viciously excoriated' on your team by results, are they?