Employing black people as toilet tenants is 'demeaning'

**nedder** · 13/12/2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Has anybody done any research to see if they're happy?

Cop on nedder.

People getting upset about foreign nationals working in jobs they are doing of there own free will, and maybe making half decent money should cop on, not me.

More to the point, has anyone done any research to see if they are unhappy?

**nedder** · 13/12/2006, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by gustavo

I know one guy that did it in a nightclub in Sligo and as far as I know it was him that approached the club and asked if he could do it , They arent paying him at all and its all tips.

Sounds like an entrepreneuring type of fella, did he do well on tips?

**Dodge** · 13/12/2006, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by nedder

People getting upset about foreign nationals working in jobs they are doing of there own free will, and maybe making half decent money should cop on, not me.

More to the point, has anyone done any research to see if they are unhappy?

When you answer my question about whether anybody has done any research to see if they�re happy.

I take your point about people getting upset (and agree with 100%) but that doesn�t mean that it isn�t a rubbish job and doesn�t mean that everyone doing it would rather be doing something else.
If you honestly believe thse people are happy, fine...

**pete** · 13/12/2006, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

When you answer my question about whether anybody has done any research to see if they�re happy.

At 2 euro a (tax free) tip i think toilet attendants would be easily earning the minimum wage per hour. Lets say guy works from 11pm to 4pm i think will easily earn more than 40 euro for the night. His costs would be minimal too.

This is typical middle class socialism assuming its some kind of slavery. No one is forcing them to work there as clearly they apporoach the clubs. If you can't get a job in Ireland these days at the unskilled level then you clearly too lazy. Every Spar in Dublin is looking for staff.

**Macy** · 13/12/2006, 12:17 PM

okay, I'll bite...

Originally Posted by pete

At 2 euro a (tax free) tip i think toilet attendants would be easily earning the minimum wage per hour

And his social insurance stamps?

Originally Posted by pete

No one is forcing them to work there as clearly they apporoach the clubs

It is not clear that they approach the clubs, but even if they do it doesn't absolve the clubs of paying de facto employees.

Originally Posted by pete

If you can't get a job in Ireland these days at the unskilled level then you clearly too lazy. Every Spar in Dublin is looking for staff.

Again, assuming that they're allowed to work.

**nedder** · 13/12/2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I take your point about people getting upset (and agree with 100%) but that doesn�t mean that it isn�t a rubbish job and doesn�t mean that everyone doing it would rather be doing something else.
If you honestly believe thse people are happy, fine...

A lot of people, in an ideal world, would rather be doing a different job, myself included

Happiness is all relative anyway...

**pete** · 13/12/2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Again, assuming that they're allowed to work.

If they not allowed to work then its illegal for them to work in the clubs.

I don't approve of toilet attendants but I do blame the clubs for allowing them there in the first place. They have high enough mark up on drink to employ a cleaner.

**Macy** · 13/12/2006, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by pete

If they not allowed to work then its illegal for them to work in the clubs.

Exactly, so it's probably not as simple to say they can just go and get a job somewhere else. How people end up getting exploited is because they don't have any options, due to them being illegals, having work permits tied to employers etc.

**nedder** · 13/12/2006, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Exactly, so it's probably not as simple to say they can just go and get a job somewhere else. How people end up getting exploited is because they don't have any options, due to them being illegals, having work permits tied to employers etc.

Of course if they are illegal, they shouldn't be here. They have the option of returning home..

**Roadend** · 13/12/2006, 1:28 PM

I feel it strange that nobody seems curious as to why you would want or need deodourant or aftershave in a nightclub in the firstplace. I mean do people not wash before they head out, in certain areas?

**NY Hoop** · 13/12/2006, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by pete

If you can't get a job in Ireland these days at the unskilled level then you clearly too lazy. Every Spar in Dublin is looking for staff.

150,000 on the dole in this country. Some of whom get a Christmas bonus

Pure laziness especially when you consider how many non Irish are here working.

KOH

**BohsPartisan** · 13/12/2006, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by pete

This is typical middle class socialism assuming its some kind of slavery.

Get off your rocking horse Pete. If you weren't a mod you'd be ticked off for that kind of flaming.

**BohsPartisan** · 13/12/2006, 4:06 PM

Originally Posted by nedder

Of course if they are illegal, they shouldn't be here. They have the option of returning home..

Same way as Irish people who fled the country during the famine had the "Option" of returning home. I bet if you had fled Nigeria and the only option was working in a jacks or going home, you'd work in the jacks.

Add to the famine example Irish illegals in the states all through the last century and this and the Irish government campaigning to make them legal. The level of ignorance towards the issues that face immigrants in this country is astounding at times.

**nedder** · 13/12/2006, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Same way as Irish people who fled the country during the famine had the "Option" of returning home. I bet if you had fled Nigeria and the only option was working in a jacks or going home, you'd work in the jacks.

Add to the famine example Irish illegals in the states all through the last century and this and the Irish government campaigning to make them legal. The level of ignorance towards the issues that face immigrants in this country is astounding at times.

I'm not ignorant to any difficulties facing immagrants. These people may have applied for asylum which is fair enough. This might be the only type of chance they can get to earn a few bob, as it seems they are self employed to an extent. The guys doing jobs like this are probably much happier doing it than returning home so I for one, don't think they are getting a raw deal. Without knowing how much they make in cash a night, from experience of busy clubs its probably more than minimum wage.

Taking your point a step further, do you think we should have an open door policy to immagrants? The Eastern eurpeans and Baltics have fueled our economic growth over the last 3 years in particular, and are rightly welcomed to this country but would it be right to have a complete open door policy??

**BohsPartisan** · 13/12/2006, 8:51 PM

I don't think things are as simple as open door or no open door. I would be against stopping people from coming here to work full stop. As I pointed out it would be hypocritical to the extreme given our history. What really needs to be done though, is to end the conditions that force people out of their homes to become asylun seekers in the first place. What do I think that solution is? See the Socialism thread. In the case of Nigeria, Shell are major culprits.

**Sheridan** · 13/12/2006, 10:01 PM

Has anyone else noticed that the Indo story which precipitated this thread referred throughout to "toilet tenants?" Unless the attendants involved are locked in the cubicles at night, we shall have to assume that the journalist in question doesn't know the difference between the two words, and his sub-editor was too stupid to notice, presumably because the error wasn't flagged on a spell-check.

**nedder** · 13/12/2006, 10:02 PM

Bohs Partisan, agree on finding a solution on the root cause of the problem.
I'll go read the Socialism thread..though I have to admit i'm not a fan of your politics. I'm open to learning, but I believe that entrepreneurship and hard work should be rewarded. However, I also believe that no one should be sleeping on our street or going hungry.