NI Passports

[lopez]

So what if the name is officially changed or not. I'll call it Derry or Doire and Belfast, Beal Feirste, and NI the O6C. I call La Coruna, La Coruna not A Coruna (or Corunna). I call Roma, Rome and Munchen, Munich. I've just about got round to the fact that Peking is Beijing, but Guangzchow (or whatever) will be forever Canton due to my fondness for the food there. I say f*ck off to calling Bombay, Mumbai. Maybe David calls it Mumbai and that I'm an intolerent bigot for continuing to call it by its colonial name, but like him, I make no apologies for it. Perhaps if David referred to the club as ******derry City FC I'd say he's provoking, but he hasn't, so it's hardly anything to have a, what is it called, 'a hissy fit' about.

BTW, anyone see 'Grumpy Old Men' earlier this year, about name changes? Apparently the way we say Beijing (Bay - jing) is highly insulting and it should be pronounced Bigh - Juuuung. I agree with Rory McGrath that 'I'll call it 'Bigh - Juuuung' or whatever when the Chinese stop calling London, 'Run - run''... or should that be 'Run-run-delly' ...

[dcfcsteve]

I wasn't aware of that and neither at a guess would most of the people around Windsor park who all, like me, call him Jim.

Are we talking about the same Derry City FC NI Supporters Club guy, with the banner, who lives in Oxford ??? The fact that he appears to have told you all his name is the neutral 'Jim', rather than the clearly Catholic/Nationalist 'Sean', speaks volumes really !

I know plenty of people who go to the Brandywell and don't feel the need to hide being called 'Billy' or 'Mervyn' !

As for the reason there are no problems on the Derry City forum with the people you mention. That is quite simple really, it is because they do not disagree with the things said on there. Simply dare to disagree with some Derry City fans and you are branded a bigot and a terrorist and that is a fact, whether you like it or not.

David - you would manage to have an arguement in an empty room for feck sake. As I've said before, I wonder why it's only the very, very occassional person like you who seems to face such problems on the Derry board. Even some of your own fans were on there after the Setanta Cup game telling us to ignore you and saying that you were a bigot. And before you lose the rag - that's their words - not mine. Regardless of whether it is true or not - I'll put money that you won't find any Derry fans saying that about me, for example.

[David]

Are we talking about the same Derry City FC NI Supporters Club guy, with the banner, who lives in Oxford ??? The fact that he appears to have told you all his name is the neutral 'Jim', rather than the clearly Catholic/Nationalist 'Sean', speaks volumes really !

I know plenty of people who go to the Brandywell and don't feel the need to hide being called 'Billy' or 'Mervyn' !



David - you would manage to have an arguement in an empty room for feck sake. As I've said before, I wonder why it's only the very, very occassional person like you who seems to face such problems on the Derry board. Even some of your own fans were on there after the Setanta Cup game telling us to ignore you and saying that you were a bigot. And before you lose the rag - that's their words - not mine. Regardless of whether it is true or not - I'll put money that you won't find any Derry fans saying that about me, for example.

I will not go into details on an internet forum about the person that you obviously hold in such high esteem but suffice to say I know a lot more about him than you do and I would not even get into dialogue with such a person. You have a very selective memory. You also had Linfield supporters on there that know me and stated that they do not always agree with me on many things but I could never be accused of being a bigot. I have done a lot of work at Windsor Park to help eradicate sectarianism and continue to do so and that is one accusation that I do find resentful and you will never hear such an accusation from anyone that knows me.

I think we are at crossed purposes and talking about a different Jim by the way but anyone who is called Sean has nothing whatsoever to worry about me knowing their real name so not quite sure what that says about me, does that speak volumes?

[David]

Are we talking about the same Derry City FC NI Supporters Club guy, with the banner, who lives in Oxford ??? The fact that he appears to have told you all his name is the neutral 'Jim', rather than the clearly Catholic/Nationalist 'Sean', speaks volumes really !

The more I have thought about this statement the more it has annoyed me. You seem to be saying that I and others around Windsor would have a problem with Catholics. Maybe you should inform the many Catholic players in our team who are treated like heroes. Are you talking about the club that are taking more steps than any other to eradicate sectarianism?

Maybe the next time you play Drogheda you should ask their supporters about me and the big bad sectarian Linfield supporters. You should talk to the Drogheda fans who I personally invited to the Shankill Road for a drink and who we had an excellent day with before our game against them. Tell me does that speak volumes about me and Linfield supporters or does that not suit your petty little agenda?

[Not Brazil]

Are we talking about the same Derry City FC NI Supporters Club guy, with the banner, who lives in Oxford ??? The fact that he appears to have told you all his name is the neutral 'Jim', rather than the clearly Catholic/Nationalist 'Sean', speaks volumes really !

I know plenty of people who go to the Brandywell and don't feel the need to hide being called 'Billy' or 'Mervyn' !

I think you are somewhat confused DCFC Steve.

Two seperate people, both friends of mine.

"Sean" from Oxford and Jim Rainey are seperate people.

Jim attends several Derry City games, and was in attendance last week for your famous victory over Gothenborg.

Neither Jim nor Sean have ever tried to disquise their names, no matter what company they find themselves in.

[Plastic Paddy]

David - you would manage to have an arguement in an empty room for feck sake

Pot... kettle... black.

PP

[dcfcsteve]

I think you are somewhat confused DCFC Steve.

Two seperate people, both friends of mine.

"Sean" from Oxford and Jim Rainey are seperate people.

Jim attends several Derry City games, and was in attendance last week for your famous victory over Gothenborg.

Neither Jim nor Sean have ever tried to disquise their names, no matter what company they find themselves in.

I thought it sounded a bit strange that Sean would tell people his name was something else, hence why I asked were we talking about the same person. And hence why I thought that if it was the same person, the only plausible explanation I could think of for him using the name 'Jim' was to hide such an obviously Catholic name. Not as a reflection upon you and who you associate with - but I could see how someone might not wanted such a name being shouted across stands etc to them. As it's thankfully not the same person, then this explanation is fortunately not needed.

I don't know who Jim rainey is. Actually when I think about it - is he Sean's wee brother ?

[Not Brazil]

I don't know who Jim rainey is. Actually when I think about it - is he Sean's wee brother ?

No, they are not in any way related.

They are acquainted through their mutual support of the Northern Ireland international team around Europe.

I was unaware that Sean's surname was Rainey also - I simply know him as Sean, as do all the other Northern Ireland regulars abroad.

Jim would be very amused at the notion that someone might think he was Sean's wee brother - Jim is of "Saga" age., although would be renowned for his somewhat youthful outlook on life.

[Block G Raptor]

BT, Northern Ireland Railways/Translink, the Roads Service etc. The PSNI also appear to insist on using 'Londonderry', even though they have numerous opportunities to alternate usage between the 2 names as the BBC does.

You Forgot UlsterBus always rises my heckels when I get a Bus Eireann ticket from Dublin to Derry and an Ulsterbus ticket from Londonderry to Dublin. I dont get return tickets from BusEireann as I usually dont know how Long I'll be staying for

[Krstic]

You Forgot UlsterBus

No he didn't, Translink and Ulsterbus are the same.

And it's great to see David back on here attempting to portray Derry fans as intolerant.

David How's the 'True Blues project' going???

For those of you who don't know the 'True Blues Project' is YET another attempt to stamp out Sectarianism AND Racism at Windsor park.
A problem I've never encountered at any other ground in Ireland.

But David keep you throwing mud our way pal, and maybe some will stick like you're hoping.

[dcfcsteve]

I was about to raise the same point Krstic.

David - yet again you've taken a thread about a relatively inocuous topic and out-of-the-blue switched it into an attack upon Derry City FC and/or its ssupporters.

The last time you did this - in May, when you hijacked a thread on IFA Cup Final photos for similar purposes - I even PM'd you to say 'well done' for doing it yet again ! And here we are 3 months later with the same sh!t !

Why do you insist on hijacking random threads and turning them into attacks on Derry City/its supporters ? In my many years on this site (and its predecessor in Johnny Ward's site) I have only experienced one other person act similarly. He was a Drogs fan, who admitted it was because he blamed Jim Roddy for trying to get his club put out of football. So what's your beef then David ? Why do you constantly hijack threads and turn them into attacks on DCFC and/or its fans ?? You can say all you like about beign friedns with Derry fans etc, but your actions speak very loudly and consistently on this site.

As a side note - I think your own definition of tolerance is only partially correct. You're correct to assert that people have the right to say/do what they want (what name they choose to call Derry). The large part you're missing, however, is the fact that tolerance also involves recognising and respecting the views of others, and at times altering your own behaviour to reflect that. You may therefore feel it was intolerant for Derry fans to react the way they did to language you used on our site. Likewise, it could just as easily be considered intolerant that you come onto the Derry City site and dogmatically insist on talking about 'Londonderry', or Donegal as a foreign/separate country, for example, when you know full well those comments would be considered provocative. Ansd when you could so easily have made the same point without need to do so with such language. You're just as guilty of intolerance for bloody-mindedly using references you know would be considered provocative - regardless of whether you use them every day or not. Again - I'll refer you to numerous other Linfield fans who have good banter on the Derry site without having such problems. Why ? Because they have the good sense and decency to not use language in a provocative way and then cry innocence when they get the inevitable response.

[dcfcsteve]

Pot... kettle... black.

PP

The only way I could have an arguement in an empty room PP would be if you insisted on sticking yer head through the door to start one.....

The ultimate irony on this thread is a Linfield fan accusing Derry City supporters of intolerance ! That's the biggest, blackest iron-mongery collection you're ever likely to see on foot.ie......

[David]

I was about to raise the same point Krstic.

David - yet again you've taken a thread about a relatively inocuous topic and out-of-the-blue switched it into an attack upon Derry City FC and/or its ssupporters.

The last time you did this - in May, when you hijacked a thread on IFA Cup Final photos for similar purposes - I even PM'd you to say 'well done' for doing it yet again ! And here we are 3 months later with the same sh!t !

Why do you insist on hijacking random threads and turning them into attacks on Derry City/its supporters ? In my many years on this site (and its predecessor in Johnny Ward's site) I have only experienced one other person act similarly. He was a Drogs fan, who admitted it was because he blamed Jim Roddy for trying to get his club put out of football. So what's your beef then David ? Why do you constantly hijack threads and turn them into attacks on DCFC and/or its fans ?? You can say all you like about beign friedns with Derry fans etc, but your actions speak very loudly and consistently on this site.

As a side note - I think your own definition of tolerance is only partially correct. You're correct to assert that people have the right to say/do what they want (what name they choose to call Derry). The large part you're missing, however, is the fact that tolerance also involves recognising and respecting the views of others, and at times altering your own behaviour to reflect that. You may therefore feel it was intolerant for Derry fans to react the way they did to language you used on our site. Likewise, it could just as easily be considered intolerant that you come onto the Derry City site and dogmatically insist on talking about 'Londonderry', or Donegal as a foreign/separate country, for example, when you know full well those comments would be considered provocative. Ansd when you could so easily have made the same point without need to do so with such language. You're just as guilty of intolerance for bloody-mindedly using references you know would be considered provocative - regardless of whether you use them every day or not. Again - I'll refer you to numerous other Linfield fans who have good banter on the Derry site without having such problems. Why ? Because they have the good sense and decency to not use language in a provocative way and then cry innocence when they get the inevitable response.

I disagree completely that tolerance involves changing how you behave depending on what company you are in. As long as your behaviour is in no way sectarian or bigotted then I personally see no reason to change it whatsoever. I accept people for what they are and I certainly do not expect them to change their behaviour around me just because we may be of different religions or political beliefs. That being the case, if you play Institute away do you all start referring to your city as Londonderry given that your hosts by and large use that name?

I agree totally that tolerance involves accepting and respecting the views of others and throughout this thread I have continually done so, it is you who has continually displayed an inability to respect my views.

As for me "hijacking" this thread, I responded to a post that Derry City are welcoming to all regardless of their beliefs as that is simply not my experience of Derry City supporters. I have said on many occasions that your support at Windsor was superb, probably the best I have ever seen at Windsor but I feel there is this continued intolerance to accept that a person is entitled to an opinion regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

With regards to your statement that I have friends that are Derry City supporters, not quite sure where you got that from but I don't to be honest although would have no problem whatsoever with a friend being a Derry City supporter or indeed meeting up with Derry City supporters prior to a game, in much the same way as we did with Drogheda supporters.

By the way, as a point of interest, I received a few pm's from Derry City supporters in the wake of our last game at the Brandywell expressing their disagreement with some of the abuse directed towards me on your forums.

[David]

No he didn't, Translink and Ulsterbus are the same.

And it's great to see David back on here attempting to portray Derry fans as intolerant.

David How's the 'True Blues project' going???

For those of you who don't know the 'True Blues Project' is YET another attempt to stamp out Sectarianism AND Racism at Windsor park.
A problem I've never encountered at any other ground in Ireland.

But David keep you throwing mud our way pal, and maybe some will stick like you're hoping.

True Blues project is going very well, thanks very much. Seeing as you are so clued in, maybe you could advise the last project that Linfield FC had to deal with this problem. Personally I feel the difference between Linfield and others is that we acknowledge that we have a problem, others do not seem to keen to do so. As for a racist problem, there really isn't one. This reared its head at one match and was very promptly dealt with and the club's anti racism stance has been acknowledged by none other that Sepp Blater.

True Blues is unique in that it is players (at all levels), supporters, board, back room staff and club employees all working together to rid our great club of this problem. The problem has improved greatly over the years but it is still there with a very small minority and we are now trying to deal with them and stamp it out completely. I suppose only a Derry City supporter could find fault in that.

[Krstic]

I suppose only a Derry City supporter could find fault in that.

No fault in it at all David. I think it's great that you are attempting to stamp out Sectarianism and Racism (according to press release not my words David).

I just wish you'd stop trying to tar everyone with Linfields Brush.

If it's a problem at other clubs, why is it never highlighted by the media???

Your club has a problem and they are ONLY NOW attempting to deal with it (Sorry I thought they tried before, shame on them for not.)

So good luck with your 'True Blues Project'

[David]

No fault in it at all David. I think it's great that you are attempting to stamp out Sectarianism and Racism (according to press release not my words David).

I just wish you'd stop trying to tar everyone with Linfields Brush.

If it's a problem at other clubs, why is it never highlighted by the media???

Your club has a problem and they are ONLY NOW attempting to deal with it (Sorry I thought they tried before, shame on them for not.)

So good luck with your 'True Blues Project'

Maybe you should ask the media why they do not highlight other club's problems. If you think they do not have them then you are naive in the extreme. We have a few idiots, we accept that and we are trying to deal with it. When I said this was a first what I meant was that it was the first time the club have had a sustained project. There have been comments in the media in the past as well as messages in the programme but this is a concerted attempt to stamp out the few that are left. Maybe Derry City (and others) should start dealing with the few idiots that they have left in the same manner?

[Krstic]

Maybe you should ask the media why they do not highlight other club's problems. If you think they do not have them then you are naive in the extreme. We have a few idiots, we accept that and we are trying to deal with it. When I said this was a first what I meant was that it was the first time the club have had a sustained project. There have been comments in the media in the past as well as messages in the programme but this is a concerted attempt to stamp out the few that are left. Maybe Derry City (and others) should start dealing with the few idiots that they have left in the same manner?

Again a wee dig at your pet hate 'Derry City'.

We don't have a sectarian or racism problem David, Linfield DO, so get on and Deal with it and leave your hatred for Derry City behind you, that would be a good start.

[David]

Again a wee dig at your pet hate 'Derry City'.

We don't have a sectarian or racism problem David, Linfield DO, so get on and Deal with it and leave your hatred for Derry City behind you, that would be a good start.

When we were at the Brandywell there was sectarian abuse shouted from BOTH sides. I was very close to the Derry supporters and heard it. It was only a few people but it did happen. For the game at Windsor I was selling programmes. All but one person there was no problem with whatsoever but one guy shouted to all those around him to "buy f*ck all off the huns". As I said, we accept we have a problem, others including yourselves do not accept this but facts would suggest otherwise.

[dcfcsteve]

When we were at the Brandywell there was sectarian abuse shouted from BOTH sides. I was very close to the Derry supporters and heard it. It was only a few people but it did happen. For the game at Windsor I was selling programmes. All but one person there was no problem with whatsoever but one guy shouted to all those around him to "buy f*ck all off the huns". As I said, we accept we have a problem, others including yourselves do not accept this but facts would suggest otherwise.

How you can compare one idiot describing you as 'huns', or agan individual idiots involved in trading insults at a game, with a club whose fans on a number of occassions could be clearly heard singing anti-Catholic songs on TV during Setanta Cup games, or who were engaged in medieval-style hand-to-hand fighting with a paramilitary twist during the Irish Cup Final ? You astound me.

You're right David - every other club has problems of that nature. We just hide them better....

Taxi for David....!

[David]

How you can compare one idiot describing you as 'huns', or agan individual idiots involved in trading insults at a game, with a club whose fans on a number of occassions could be clearly heard singing anti-Catholic songs on TV during Setanta Cup games, or who were engaged in medieval-style hand-to-hand fighting with a paramilitary twist during the Irish Cup Final ? You astound me.

You're right David - every other club has problems of that nature. We just hide them better....

Taxi for David....!

So shouting sectarian abuse is fine? Who is trying to compare anything? Certainly not me. But in my opinion shouting sectarian abuse is ahem sectarianism. Also bear in mind that only Derry City members were allowed to travel to Windsor. I accept that over the two games there were very few involved but it did happen but sure, just ignore it. Derry City fans even seem to have a problem with certain people attending games if your own forum is anything to go by.