QuoteOne very good save aside, I thought Bazunu was a bit jittery last night.
I obviously can't respond to every point here, so just to pick a couple -
No - but I never said you did? I likened your defence of Bazunu (the defence's fault, the keeper couldn't have done much about the goals, not getting much protection, etc) to the defence of Travers we saw (from other posters, though I didn't think I needed to be that explicit) when Bournemouth lost 9-0 to Liverpool.Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
I think the "young" bit gets overemphasised tbh. Yes, he's 21 and learning the game, improving, etc (as I've regularly acknowledged and have no problems doing so again). But he's playing senior football; he has to be able to be judged against it.
I mean, fair enough, but in judging a keeper I'm not sure why you'd leave out the entire of last season. But let's roll with it.
This doesn't make any sense. Of course it's not Bazunu's fault that the defence allows shots on target (we'll overlook your comment later about Begovic maybe organising his defence better; it's a minor point in the scheme of things. And the same to your later point about who's to blame for too many long-range shots.
He's not there to stop shots being taken; he's there to stop the ball going into the net. And he's not doing that. Those long-range shots, for example, weren't all 100% unstoppable.
So when you come to looking at the 12 goals and asking which he was at fault for - I think this is too vague a question really. If each of those shots is an 83% chance of a goal and he saves none, then he's not really at fault for any of them but he still should, on balance, have been expected to save two. (I know this is a confirmation bias to an extent as I'm ignoring the shots he saved; it's just for illustration). It might have taken great saves to stop two - but then that's what he's there for, isn't it? And it's a common criticism from (ranty) Southampton that he rarely seems to make a great save, to keep them in the game. And this is another advantage of stats over human observation - not just independence, but the accumulation of lots of little bits of data, which can lead to the idea that even though he's not necessarily at fault for any (except the third v Sunderland, let's say), he's still not done well to let them all in.
If you do want to have a look at the ones he may have been more likely to save - first off I think most people here feel he was at fault for the third against Sunderland; you can't get that much of a hand on the ball and not keep it out. I don't think it's a howler as originally suggested, but it's weak keeping. There's question marks around whether he could have done better for the second (my view) or the fifth (your view). He doesn't exactly make himself big for the opener against Norwich. And then there's others - like the fourth against Norwich and the fourth against Sunderland - which are brain farts from the defence leaving him hung out to dry.
Nope - I didn't watch the video. In general, I don't care what managers say in public about a player; there's always some choreographing going on. Is Martin trying to get the fans to back the keeper? Is he trying to defend the club's €15m outlay? Is he an idiot? Is he right? I don't know - and as I say, don't really care. That's not just convenience here; I generally don't care what any manager has to say in public.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 07/09/2023 at 8:44 AM.
One very good save aside, I thought Bazunu was a bit jittery last night.
He seemed to drop a couple of balls after claiming them a couple of times. Nobody near him at the time thank God
Folding my way into the big money!!!
He made a balls of not calling for it on one corner and France actually should have scored. It was a terrible piece of goalkeeping
It was hard to see who was at fault. Idah was at fault if Bazunu called for it. Bazunu was at fault if he didn't call for it
Folding my way into the big money!!!
But surely if Gavin had called for it he would have slapped idah in the face when the ball was cleared
But he looked sheepish afterwards to me
Depends on the call but it looked to me like it was a bit impetuous by Idah.
Bazunu had an up and down game - dropped the first cross (probably thinking about getting the ball out quickly for a counter attack) - but he handled the rest of the crosses well.
The incident with Idah - put the blame on Bazunu for that - and it goes back to him not being vocal enough. If he did call for the ball and Idah still headed it then Bazunu should have berated him.
I think he could have done better with the good save - it seems he tried to catch it and realised late that it had too much force - he should have been punching it out to the corner flag.
He got better as the game went on - and I was most impressed with how he stood up and didn't go to ground when Mbappe went through and slotted wide. Overall I thought he had a decent game in the context of the result.
Now - going back to the previous aspects of this discussion - nothing that Bazunu could have done for either goal. The first one demonstrates what happens when a good striker has an opportunity to set up and pick his spot. It was one of only a couple of times in the game when a French player had time to do that. Unlike the Southampton defence - the Irish players pressured anyone attempting to line up a shot on goal and blocked several of them. If it was the Southampton defence of this season then 4 or 5 of those shots would have caused serious trouble and probably a couple of goals. I think Duffy might have had an influence in what was happening - blocking shots is his forte - and I think he was probably yelling at the rest of the players to get tight on the shooters.
that first goal was incredible but the shot was taken on because other teams know bazunu is shocking from range. he should be dropped
That's rubbish
Speaking as a Rovers,so unbelievably biased in favour of Gav,I thought he looked a little uncertain last night.
The young man(and he's incredibly young for an international keeper) is human,and the knocks and criticisms he's faced from Southampton supporters,who conveniently ignore the clown car ensemble back 4 in front of him,as well as the farcical management decisions,has had an effect on Gavs form.
He appears to be a strong, determined individual and I retain great hopes that he succeeds in his professional career.
He is also hampered in being born in an era severely lacking in quality international teammates.
its a fact teams know hes suspect from range. he isnt undroppable at all, there should definitely be a conversation around it.
This season - with the possible exception of one - yes they were unstoppable.
A goalkeepers positioning is crucial - but even with perfect positioning he cannot cover the entire goals - it the shot from range is perfectly positioned into the bottom (or top) corner then there is nothing a goalkeeper can do about it - and when a striker is given the time they will hit their spot 9 times out of 10.
yada yada - I went through each goal in detail - pick one and criticise my assessment.
You can only make great saves when you have an opportunity to make great saves - most keepers only make a handful a season - and Bazunu makes some very good saves - but that gets lost when your defence is shipping goals all over the place. Southampton fans are lumping Bazunu in with the rest of the defence and it is unwarranted.
So now you have gone from - a manager never says anything controversial in a press conference - to - you don't care what the manager says - and then try and come up with reasons why Martin defended Bazunu (while criticising the defenders) - and you still haven't watched the video. And by the way - the transfer fee was £10m with add-ons.
Go watch the video if you want to make a comment about why you think Martin argued that Bazunu is a good goalkeeper and if he was to pick a goalkeeper for his current team it would be Gavin Bazunu.
In the Irish team Kelleher has been just as susceptible to shots from range - and at Southampton McCarthy has been even more susceptible to shots from range - why? - because the defenders don't close down the strikers (unlike last night when the Irish team did actually do what they were supposed to do apart from the first goal).
you are a bit deranged. cant deal with any bazunu criticism, i'll leave Stu respond im out. Good luck
Nah, I'm done too. I don't see any basis for the argument that the Southampton situation can be reduced to "Keeper good, defence bad", and I've made my points. But they're actually ignored in the last reply (the part starting "Yada yada", when then asks me to do what I actually did in my previous post, but was cut out of the reply, for example)
Please refrain from personal remarks. That said, this thread can get a bit heated. Chill the **** out, everyone. He's a footballer, not the minister responsible for housing policy.
You can't spell failure without FAI
Speaking of 'keepers, Maignan looks top notch.
I can't believe what I am readingseldom seen board journeyman takes out daily nesting board heavy weight at his own game in A huge upset here on footdot. Pay per view popcorn level stuff & a new King.
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