Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

**Nesta99** · 09/09/2015, 2:05 PM

Gerry Matthew used his own construction company and materials to build the shed behind the shed. It seemed to me at the time that it was unusual that the sports capital grant was applied for and subsequently was paid to a company of the applicant. GM's quantity surveyors put a valuation on the YDC. I dont know if an independent survey has been done. At the time GM said that without his own materiel utilised from a defunct build and using his own workers the build would not have happened. To determine the actual cost as opposed to a valuation, what is said that is owed and what was actually spent...anybodies guess really. That he is looking for 10% of his €5mil valuation would suggest to me that that there is wriggle room around that valuation.

**ThePrisoner** · 09/09/2015, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

Gerry Matthew used his own construction company and materials to build the shed behind the shed. It seemed to me at the time that it was unusual that the sports capital grant was applied for and subsequently was paid to a company of the applicant. GM's quantity surveyors put a valuation on the YDC. I dont know if an independent survey has been done. At the time GM said that without his own materiel utilised from a defunct build and using his own workers the build would not have happened. To determine the actual cost as opposed to a valuation, what is said that is owed and what was actually spent...anybodies guess really. That he is looking for 10% of his €5mil valuation would suggest to me that that there is wriggle room around that valuation.

The figures don't come anywhere near €5m and he signed the accounts!!

**Charlie Darwin** · 09/09/2015, 3:21 PM

There's a reason why so many developers got involved with football clubs - tax write-offs all over the place.

**Nesta99** · 09/09/2015, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

There's a reason why so many developers got involved with football clubs - tax write-offs all over the place.

Shush... Dont tell Dodge!

**orielabu** · 09/09/2015, 6:48 PM

The Prisoner �. �Fixed assets at cost �3,426,306. Assumption - this relates almost entirely to the building behind the shed? �

Wouldn�t be too sure about that. Capital spend undertaken by Gerry Matthews, other than the pitch and the YDC, has been estimated at circa �1 million. It isn�t clear what element, if any, of this capital spend was capitalised in the accounts.
Allowing say �1.5 million (Pitch �.5 million and Others �1 million) would leave about �2 million (nett of grants) for the YDC.
Note: The �1 million Others would add to the sum owed to Gerry Matthews, depending of course on how this expenditure was handled in the accounts.
All a bit of an enigma.

**ThePrisoner** · 10/09/2015, 8:13 AM

Originally Posted by orielabu

The Prisoner …. “Fixed assets at cost €3,426,306. Assumption - this relates almost entirely to the building behind the shed? “

Wouldn’t be too sure about that. Capital spend undertaken by Gerry Matthews, other than the pitch and the YDC, has been estimated at circa €1 million. It isn’t clear what element, if any, of this capital spend was capitalised in the accounts.
Allowing say €1.5 million (Pitch €.5 million and Others €1 million) would leave about €2 million (nett of grants) for the YDC.
Note: The €1 million Others would add to the sum owed to Gerry Matthews, depending of course on how this expenditure was handled in the accounts.
All a bit of an enigma.

My figures are from a verifiable source - the audited accounts, signed by both the directors and the auditors.

Can you confirm your source?

**orielabu** · 10/09/2015, 8:53 AM

“My figures are from a verifiable source - the audited accounts, signed by both the directors and the auditors. “
In relation to the accounts of any League of Ireland club, only innocents abroad would treat them like the gospel.
In any event the only new figure I introduced was the ESTIMATE of €1 million to cover the capital programme undertaken by Gerry Matthews in the period 2006 to 2010.
The source? “C’mon the Town A Dundalk FC Miscellany” (2003). See article “The Changing face of Oriel Park 1966 to 2013.”

I merely cautioned acceptance of the proposition that “Fixed assets at cost €3,426,306. Assumption - this relates almost entirely to the building behind the shed? “

Some €1.5 mill capital expenditure other than for YDC needs to be accounted for.

**ThePrisoner** · 10/09/2015, 9:22 AM

Originally Posted by orielabu

“My figures are from a verifiable source - the audited accounts, signed by both the directors and the auditors. “
In relation to the accounts of any League of Ireland club, only innocents abroad would treat them like the gospel.
In any event the only new figure I introduced was the ESTIMATE of €1 million to cover the capital programme undertaken by Gerry Matthews in the period 2006 to 2010.
The source? “C’mon the Town A Dundalk FC Miscellany” (2003). See article “The Changing face of Oriel Park 1966 to 2013.”

I merely cautioned acceptance of the proposition that “Fixed assets at cost €3,426,306. Assumption - this relates almost entirely to the building behind the shed? “

Some €1.5 mill capital expenditure other than for YDC needs to be accounted for.

In relation to your comment on the accounts of a LoI club, I'll leave that to the auditors to deal with.

I haven't read the book so I can't comment on it. I have no idea what research was done for the book and how it was verified.

Can you clarify a point - is it your contention that the figure of €3m odd is overstated or understated?

My contention is that the figure of €3m is at a significant variance with the €5.5m as claimed in one of the articles coupled with the fact that the accounts state that GM is owed €1.7m and not €5.5m. Simply, the figures in the articles do not compare with the audited accounts.

**orielabu** · 10/09/2015, 10:23 AM

I do not know anything about the basis used to arrive at the €3.4 million for fixed assets according to the audited accounts.
But with €1.5 million to be accounted for to cover expenditure for items other than the YDC (Pitch and the 2006-12 grounds improvement programme) I’m suggesting to treat with caution the suggestion that this 3.4 “relates almost entirely to the building behind the shed.”

I agree that sums quoted in various articles simply don’t make sense.
With regard to your question; It’s impossible to know whether the €3.4 million is an accurate figure for the YDC because we don’t know how the other capital spend was treated in the accounts. Hence my word of caution.

**ThePrisoner** · 10/09/2015, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by orielabu

I do not know anything about the basis used to arrive at the €3.4 million for fixed assets according to the audited accounts.
But with €1.5 million to be accounted for to cover expenditure for items other than the YDC (Pitch and the 2006-12 grounds improvement programme) I’m suggesting to treat with caution the suggestion that this 3.4 “relates almost entirely to the building behind the shed.”

I agree that sums quoted in various articles simply don’t make sense.
With regard to your question; It’s impossible to know whether the €3.4 million is an accurate figure for the YDC because we don’t know how the other capital spend was treated in the accounts. Hence my word of caution.

I’m suggesting to treat with caution the suggestion that this 3.4 “relates almost entirely to the building behind the shed.” Yes, I'm more than happy to accept your words of caution and that's why the first word in the sentence was 'assumption'. That was based on view that from my visits to OP I can't see any other major work carried having been carried out in recent years.

My first visit to OP was in April, 1978 and the place looks much the same today as it was then. Very little has been done to OP over a period of almost 40 years in terms of improvements. I recall a small covered area where the shed is now and there may have been something behind the town end. That's about it. I was down the far end and from memory there was nothing there, not even a bit of a bank to stand on to get an elevated view. Still the same today. The only significant outlay that I can see from 1978 is the pitch. So I have a bit of difficulty in seeing where the investment went if it didn't go into the YDC. I accept there would have been ongoing repairs, etc., to the stand, lights, general repairs, etc., over the years but the period under discussion is 2007 to 2012.

because we don’t know how the other capital spend was treated in the accounts. Can you advise on what other capital spend there was as it's not readily apparent from my most recent visit to OP this season?

**orielabu** · 10/09/2015, 11:46 AM

The source referred to earlier [“C’mon the Town A Dundalk FC Miscellany” (2003). See article “The Changing face of Oriel Park 1966 to 2013.”] itemises 20 different areas of expenditure, year by year, from 2006 to 2010, and excluding the pitch costs. Apparently, according to the article “ It is estimated that in excess of €1 million was spent in these areas”.

**ThePrisoner** · 10/09/2015, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by orielabu

The source referred to earlier [“C’mon the Town A Dundalk FC Miscellany” (2003). See article “The Changing face of Oriel Park 1966 to 2013.”] itemises 20 different areas of expenditure, year by year, from 2006 to 2010, and excluding the pitch costs. Apparently, according to the article “ It is estimated that in excess of €1 million was spent in these areas”.

I don't have the book.

Can you give a few examples?

**Nesta99** · 11/09/2015, 12:14 AM

The pitch was laid with new drainage and ground works, and then top lair of carpet replaced. New roof on the stand, glass panels fitted to replace the opaque perspex, the interior of the stand modified with wall realignment to facilitate a club shop, offices and reception, refs (male and female i think) changing rooms. The seats fitted for Europe and modifcations made to do so. Work to bring the stand up to appropriate health and safety eg widening of steps and decreasing their rise. Fitting handrails hence etc. Build of a block of men and womens toilets at the rear of town end terrace. The erection of the perimeter wall/fencing around the pitch. Concrete 'steps' poured to fit seating in the New shed and TV gantry. Tarmacing the forecourt at the front of Oriel and the Away entrance lane way. Building a 12ft or so (drop in to the sports fields behind) perimeter wall at the Carrick Rd end and the 'road' in to the YDC cleared, widened and tarmaced with appropriate ground works. Refurbished dressing rooms. A million bits 'n pieces of rewiring electrics, drainage, dealing wth general neglect (which considering it is now still an antiquated facility after, how much was and still is needed) refurb of the McGuill bar, erection of netting behind the goal, replacement or upgrade of floodlights it think, lining designated pedestrian ways, ambulance parking area etc. This all may not be capital expenditure but it does all add up to a good chunk of expenditure on the ground in general before the YDC is mentioned.

Another slightly odd one is the extension of the board room over the bar and includes a view of half the pitch.

**jinxy lilywhite** · 11/09/2015, 10:06 AM

You can add in Oriel park into the Fixed Asset. While the club don't own the site they do enjoy full use (control) and generate revenue from us use

**Paddyfield** · 11/09/2015, 11:31 AM

I've been to Oriel three times in my life since circa 1990. The only change I noticed is the plastic pitch.

**mcgonigle** · 11/09/2015, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by Paddyfield

I've been to Oriel three times in my life since circa 1990. The only change I noticed is the plastic pitch.

What a strange post seeing that the last few pages have been about the pitch length YDC on the shed side! Did you miss it as you were blinded by your rage at the "plastic pitch"?

**nigel-harps1954** · 11/09/2015, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by Paddyfield

I've been to Oriel three times in my life since circa 1990. The only change I noticed is the plastic pitch.

Were you stone drunk or something?

**Nesta99** · 11/09/2015, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Paddyfield

I've been to Oriel three times in my life since circa 1990. The only change I noticed is the plastic pitch.

3 time since circa 1990? We need to know the most recent visit Paddy as if the last of your 3 visits was 2006 well then it's not a surprise you didnt notice much change. If first visit was 1990 when Oriel wouldnt have been out of Place in a Mad Max film, and the last 2015 well then observation skills aren't your strong point. I hope you dont have the same observations on Turners Cross between 1990 and 2015!