Player eligibility row

[The Fly]

I'd love to know the details of their bid to stop Kearns from playing. I wonder why no one knew about it? What's more, can you imagine if they had succeeded? I doubt Kearns would have been too happy. Do you think he'd have represented NI again?

I believe that this issue is now all over bar the shouting.

When Shane Duffy elected to 'defect' to our set-up, he was followed by a group of 4 or 5 young players, one of which was Daniel Kearns - as we all know. One of the main, technical, arguments put forward by some of the more eminent posters on OWC was that players from Northern Ireland could represent ROI only if they satisfied the familial link requirement, and that the citizenship argument was a red herring. Darron Gibson, in their eyes, was able to represent ROI, despite having no familial link, because he qualified under the "old rules." Therefore, there had yet to be a 'new' test case.

Of these 4 or 5 players, I found it hard to believe that all had a familial link to ROI. If, as seems to be the case, Daniel Kearns has not and the IFA were unsuccessful in their attempts to prevent him from representing ROI, then were all just waiting for that dear old fat lady to start singing.........err.........again.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Wouldn't bother me, it's the principal of it. He could never play another International game again for all I care.

It REALLY gets on my tits when players defect. Kearns has played for us at youth level, if he was never interested in playing for us proper the IFA should have dumped him out on his hole years ago so that he didn't waste our time and effort.

FFS, he lad has played AGAINST the Republic and scored for us AGAINST the republic. What a waste of space, effort and money he was.

I fully support the IFA fighting this. Yes, players have a right to play for the republic, but the republic is ripping the ass out of it, waiting until WE develop players and then sticking their arm in. If you want players, take them before they play for us. I have no problem with players shifting sides if they at least have the decency to do it before playing for NI at youth level.

Whilst I have minimal sympathy for your players being allegedly tapped up, perhaps you should be grateful as an archaic colonial outpost and part of a much larger political state (which by historical quirk has 4 teams FFS), you even have your 'own' team....and just accept the very fact it exists, for now.
And accept 45% of your population are unlikely to ever accept playing for a society, that deep down despises them!

[Predator]

Wouldn't bother me, it's the principal of it.

What is the 'principle of it' exactly?

It REALLY gets on my tits when players defect. Kearns has played for us at youth level, if he was never interested in playing for us proper the IFA should have dumped him out on his hole years ago so that he didn't waste our time and effort.

How do you propose that the IFA start to implement this initiative of dumping out players who don't want to play for them?

I fully support the IFA fighting this

Let us know what the Titanic looks like now, will you?

waiting until WE develop players and then sticking their arm in. If you want players, take them before they play for us. I have no problem with players shifting sides if they at least have the decency to do it before playing for NI at youth level.

Nonsense. The players are free to change when they want within the current rules and it's not as if the FAI is harvesting players - the players make their own choice when it is presented. As Danny says, this isn't exclusive to NI, so stop acting as if it is.

I believe that this issue is now all over bar the shouting.

Pretty much how it seems. It was a storm in a tea-cup.

When Shane Duffy elected to 'defect' to our set-up, he was followed by a group of 4 or 5 young players, one of which was Daniel Kearns - as we all know.

Sorry that isn't quite true. The media have distorted this. The '4 or 5 young players' had all declared long before Shane Duffy, despite being in the same age group - Duffy's decision to switch was intentionally and somewhat cynically publicised by Worthington and the IFA. The McEleney brothers, Darren McCauley, Kearns (not sure about Devine) and McBride had all made the switch before Duffy. Shane Duffy's switch didn't 'open the floodgates' as they say.

[DannyInvincible]

I sense things drawing to a close as far as the IFA's case and the surrounding circus is concerned, but just looking back on how this beast grew its wings out of the whole Shane Duffy saga, it leaves a bit of a sour taste. If you take on board the way in which the IFA and its loyal legions behaved with respect to Duffy, you'll see how they attempted to tarnish his reputation and exploit his move to the FAI in order to bolster their own agenda by associating his loss of talent to the FAI and the publicity generated thereafter with a very politicised conflict of interpretation over a set of FIFA statutes to which he wasn't even relevant.

The outraged cries of "keep politics out of football" were especially rich, if not utterly redundant. The IFA gleefully moved on the back of the publicity storm they themselves sowed which had Duffy variously cast as a traitor, a turn-coat, a sell-out, manipulative, conniving, a defector, a liar when he claimed it was his life-long dream to play for Ireland, a mercenary in his "defection", a poached idiot who fell for the sweet-talk and winking eyes of notorious child-snatcher Liam Brady, all sorts of absolutely shameful skullduggery... A 17-year-old lad who found himself being fast-tracked through the IFA's ranks; as synonymous with the FAI's alleged "poaching" as any other self-interested activity of a football association, I sh*t you not. Are we supposed to delude ourselves into believing that all this was done solely in Duffy's interest and was somehow orchestrated solely by himself? The IFA are in the same game as the FAI here. Let's not kid ourselves that they are some sort of innocent victim in all of this. Duffy had to call a stop to his passage before things snowballed any further through a system in which he found himself by geographical circumstance. They had to use a misplaced Duffy as a scapegoat, of course, to ensure the dispute hit the headlines and gathered wind, in spite of the fact that he qualified to play for Ireland by virtue of an eligibility route with which they could have and seemingly had no gripe whatsoever. Who'd give a toss about a West Ham reserves reject, after all? Shameful stuff all round and all very well executed, except for the fact that it hasn't really come to much in the end, bar completely showing certain stubborn curmudgeons up for what they really are. So hold back your impressed rounds of applause just yet!...

The most depressing thing I took from the whole sorry affair is what appears to be the incredible level of underlying bitterness still harboured by so many. What a complete charade the "sophisticated", "tolerant" and "polite" sectarianism of trying to claim that the FAI ("Footballing Apartheid in Ireland"? How embarrassingly ignorant, arrogant and sanctimonious...) were the ones falling foul of the spirit of the GFA was; that denying Irish citizens the right to represent their country would somehow be within the spirit of the agreement. What a sly and despicable insult to the identity and aspirations of the whole nationalist community in the north.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think northern players defecting to the south can go on forever. Politically, it's untenable. Hopefully, NI will decide that its best interests lie in an all-island team (I am not a republican, by the way), but I can see why that would be unattractive to the Northern Irish people.

[ifk101]

I sense things drawing to a close as far as the IFA's case and the surrounding circus is concerned, but just looking back on how this beast grew its wings out of the whole Shane Duffy saga, it leaves a bit of a sour taste. If you take on board the way in which the IFA and its loyal legions behaved with respect to Duffy, you'll see how they attempted to tarnish his reputation and exploit his move to the FAI in order to bolster their own agenda by associating his loss of talent to the FAI and the publicity generated thereafter with a very politicised conflict of interpretation over a set of FIFA statutes to which he wasn't even relevant.

Agree. It really was quite distasteful behaviour by the IFA wrapped in hypocrisy. They blatantly set out to make an example of Duffy and use him to shine a little media attention on their whinging grievances about integrity and youth development gone to waste when behind the scenes they are tapping-up ("unhappy") players from England's youth system. How in earth these two-faced, incompetent fools believe they can build a successful appeal with CAS is beyond me.

[awec]

Wait... so you want the IFA to fight this, but you also want him to sod off and play for the FAI? Those are quite difficult standards to live up to.

As I've said countless times on this thread, my issue is with those that are happy to play for us at youth level and then magically and mysteriously have issue playing for us at senior level.

You either want to play for NI or you don't. If you don't, you shouldn't get a anywhere near our youth structure. If you do, we're glad to have you.

I understand the rather unique political situation in Ireland where people born in NI are well within their rights to play for the ROI. I have no problem with someone from NI playing for the ROI right through youth level and into senior level.

My issue is with those that are happy to hitch a ride on the IFA youth system and then switch. That is taking us for fools and playing a dirty game and those are the sort of people that I, and the majority of NI fans have a problem with. I won't dispute that there are some NI fans who think it shouldn't happen at all but most of these people live in dreamworld.

It's not bigotry or sectarianism, it's nothing to do with that. It's basic principals. Why should we develop players at youth level only for them to go play for another country. This is international football, not club football, there is supposed to be a degree of loyalty which seems lost on some individuals.

[awec]

I'd love to play for the country I was born in...again and again and again. I'd be to own goals what Pele was to putting them in the other team's net. Oh dear, what a D*ckhead!

What have I said that's incorrect?

I'm not saying everyone born in NI should play for NI. For nationalists born in NI the country they were born in in their mind is Ireland, and so they should play for Ireland (if they want, they are more than welcome to become full NI internationals), and with that I have no issue.

What I do have issue with is "I view myself as being Irish but I'll play for Northern Ireland for a while to see how it works out and then when the ROI come asking I'll just jump ship. Win win for me and the ROI, and screw you Northern Ireland."

If you can't see the problem with that then there's no hope for us.

[dantheman]

What have I said that's incorrect?

I'm not saying everyone born in NI should play for NI. For nationalists born in NI the country they were born in in their mind is Ireland, and so they should play for Ireland (if they want, they are more than welcome to become full NI internationals), and with that I have no issue.

What I do have issue with is "I view myself as being Irish but I'll play for Northern Ireland for a while to see how it works out and then when the ROI come asking I'll just jump ship. Win win for me and the ROI, and screw you Northern Ireland."

If you can't see the problem with that then there's no hope for us.

I agree with your point, but how do you feel about taking this through to its logical conclusion, FAI training camps in NI?

[awec]

I agree with your point, but how do you feel about taking this through to its logical conclusion, FAI training camps in NI?

It won't make a difference though it'll be politically volatile. Anyone who really wants to play for the ROI will find a way to attend training camps nomatter where they are, though many would view ROI training camps in NI as the FAI really sticking the arm into it.

[osarusan]

My issue is with those that are happy to hitch a ride on the IFA youth system and then switch. That is taking us for fools and playing a dirty game and those are the sort of people that I, and the majority of NI fans have a problem with. I won't dispute that there are some NI fans who think it shouldn't happen at all but most of these people live in dreamworld.

If you check my previous posts on this thread you'll see i have a fair amount of sympathy for Northern Ireland over this issue.

I do think though that the post I've quoted doesn't take into account the possibility that for some (many?) of these players, they only really develop a feeling about this issue of allegiance in their teens, maybe even mid to late teens.

It's not fair to suggest that every player starts out with the idea of going through the IFA youth system while knowing all the time that they'll decide they want to represent the FAI at senior level. It suggests a level of connivance I wouldn't expect to find in players ...say.... 14 years of age.

I've no doubt there are some who do continue to milk the IFA system even after having made their mind up regarding allegiance to the FAI, but I'd imagine that for many, there is a (perhaps quite painful) process of awakening (political, social) which starts after they've played in NI youth teams.

[Gather round]

I don't think northern players defecting to the south can go on forever. Politically, it's untenable. Hopefully, NI will decide that its best interests lie in an all-island team (I am not a republican, by the way), but I can see why that would be unattractive to the Northern Irish people.

Why is it untenable? The border will presumably remain for the foreseeable future, ditto the large nationalist minority on our side of it. But why would the unionist majority just give up the Northern Ireland team (stop being unionists, effectively)? I see some NI fans, particularly on OWC are saying this, but it's a hysterical over-reaction.

Are you a monarchist then?

[awec]

The only time I could support an all Ireland football team is when there is (and I beleive it'll happen eventually) a United Ireland.

It's weird, because I can watch the Ireland rugby team no problem (and do watch them), but I'd find watching an all ireland football team strange and I don't know if I'd be able to relate to it as "my" team.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Why is it untenable? The border will presumably remain for the foreseeable future, ditto the large nationalist minority on our side of it. But why would the unionist majority just give up the Northern Ireland team (stop being unionists, effectively)? I see some NI fans, particularly on OWC are saying this, but it's a hysterical over-reaction.

Sounds like someone reckons supporting NI is an expession of ones unionism. ;-)

The only time I could support an all Ireland football team is when there is (and I beleive it'll happen eventually) a United Ireland.

I don't even see it happening in the event of a UI awec. I don't reckon a UI likely any day soon but in any event there's no strict reason why the NI team (or ROI if unity came about because we rejoined the UK) couldn't keep going thereafter.

[DannyInvincible]

The only time I could support an all Ireland football team is when there is (and I beleive it'll happen eventually) a United Ireland.

It's weird, because I can watch the Ireland rugby team no problem (and do watch them), but I'd find watching an all ireland football team strange and I don't know if I'd be able to relate to it as "my" team.

Out of interest, why exactly would you be unable to relate to an all-Ireland football team, in contrast with how you relate to the current all-Ireland rugby team? It is because it would be something you wouldn't be totally used to and wouldn't be sure what form it might take on, or is there something more to it?

there's no strict reason why the NI team (or ROI if unity came about because we rejoined the UK) couldn't keep going thereafter.

I see we're in the business of massaging unionist paranoia now. :P

[awec]

Out of interest, why exactly would you be unable to relate to an all-Ireland football team, in contrast with how you relate to the current all-Ireland rugby team? It is because it would be something you wouldn't be totally used to and wouldn't be sure what form it might take on, or is there something more to it?



I see we're in the business of massaging unionist paranoia now. :P

I think it's because I've never experienced a Northern Ireland rugby team and therefore never "lost" any sense of national pride.

As a block booker at the NI games, to suddenly lose that team and start supporting another one would be like changing my club team, it would just feel wrong.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The only time I could support an all Ireland football team is when there is (and I beleive it'll happen eventually) a United Ireland.

It's weird, because I can watch the Ireland rugby team no problem (and do watch them), but I'd find watching an all ireland football team strange and I don't know if I'd be able to relate to it as "my" team.

Hmm. You're half-way there
What if the Ireland team in the future was made up of eleven players from the North.....it could happen!!

Sounds like someone reckons supporting NI is an expession of ones unionism. ;-)

(or ROI if unity came about because we rejoined the UK)

Well, yes. Not to mention numerous other nasty attributes.....

And are you for real???

[Crosby87]

to suddenly lose that team and start supporting another one would be like changing my club team, it would just feel wrong.

You could likely get used to it after awhile like anything else, especially if the situation was better than it is now.

I mean what if it was ultimitely in the best interests of everyone concerned? If for arguments sake i told you NI will not make a Euro or WC for the next 30 years would you reconsider? Or would you rather a team never make it but at least they would still be "your team?" This is what I am curious about.

[awec]

You could likely get used to it after awhile like anything else, especially if the situation was better than it is now.

I mean what if it was ultimitely in the best interests of everyone concerned? If for arguments sake i told you NI will not make a Euro or WC for the next 30 years would you reconsider? Or would you rather a team never make it but at least they would still be "your team?" This is what I am curious about.

I honestly don't know, I haven't thought about it a lot.

[Crosby87]

I honestly don't know, I haven't thought about it a lot.

Well start thinking about it so we can get a decent united team going and therefore be able to travel to tournaments more than once a decade.

Also what is for?