QuoteWhat did that article have to do with anything?Originally Posted by backtowalsall
I want that 2 minutes back.
The slow death continues
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...sh/8430911.stm
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
What did that article have to do with anything?
I want that 2 minutes back.
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
yeah i don't get the link at all there....took me 3 minutes cos i'm a slow reader
Folding my way into the big money!!!
"Distillery face winding-up petition"
If yet another club going to the brink doesn't sufficiently illustrate the point for you, I can post the stories about the clubhouse being burnt to the ground, or the derby match that had more in common with a bar fight than a tough but fair Boxing Day game.
Football in Ireland, north and south, is dieing, and the patient is still refusing treatment.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Exactly right. The only way forward for club football in Ireland (North and South) is very radical structural reform which starts from the basis that there is enough talent and enough of a public appetite to sustain maybe 6 to 8 teams playing to a decent level in a decent league. If the product and spectacle is not at least on a par with SPL or other european Leagues that occasionally get teams into the league stages of European competitions then most people will carry on supporting Premier League teams or Celtic / Rangers. Of course the tiny minority who follow EL or IL will protest and vested interests will obstruct the possibility of mergers and transnational league structures and club football in Ireland will continue to be a quaint but declining sideshow. Much the same way as our two international teams will also fail to realise the potential for success that I believe the overwhelming majority of football supporters across the political and sectarian divide yearn for.
You have zero knowledge of the local game and you have no real or vested interest in it either. Yet you advocate radical change as the only way forward.
so the Christmas ceasefire is over then...
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
What does either of the above have to do with anything we've been debating?
How would an AI League stop vandals burning a Clubhouse down, or a tempestuous local derby?
Who would these "6 to 8" teams be?
Do you think a 6 to 8 team league is the answer to all our woes?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
We've a few of those up North too - never, or very rarely, graced an IL game with their presence, but they know what's best for "the local game".You have zero knowledge of the local game and you have no real or vested interest in it either. Yet you advocate radical change as the only way forward.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I'm fairly familar with Carrick through work. To call it a club house is really doing it a favour. It was a pre-fabed shack and its a miricle that it didn't fall down of its own accord long before now. Still, the locals will be able to see the Portadown game in the cup for free from the bridge now, so someone will be happy. I doubt anything could have saved that particular building, though becoming amateur teams for the local community could save proud clubs like Lisburn Distillery and Carrick Rangers in the longer term.What does either of the above have to do with anything we've been debating?
How would an AI League stop vandals burning a Clubhouse down, or a tempestuous local derby?
As for the battle on Boxing Day, a team having 5 sent off (should have been 6) is not a "tempestuous local derby". It was legalised hooliganism and the second half brings disgrace to the game.
It was the very opposite of the kind of family entertainment that football needs to be if it is to survive. Tricolours and the former banner of the Government of Northern Ireland everywhere, and 22 blokes kicking the sh*t out of each other for the entertainment of a few thousand people, followed by an interview with the clearly deluded Stephen Baxter, who saw "nothing out there that justified a red card". But everyone can judge for themselves and listen to Mr. baxters pearls of wisdom on the link below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...sh/8429037.stm
It was an ugly disgrace to the game, and i do believe that if we have less teams, and top flight football was played by full time professionals, who have the discipline that comes with being a pro, that a repeat of Saturday would be a lot less likely. I also believe that such a league would allow domestic players to develop to a higher standard, that they would enjoy more success in Europe, and as a result of playing competative European games would have the experence to offer real support to the overseas players in both international squads.
Incidently, the lad Keenan in goal for Crues made some great saves based on the highlights
Last edited by backstothewall; 28/12/2009 at 5:09 PM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
I'm fairly familiar with Carrick through work too, but what has vandals burning down part of their Clubhouse facilities got to do with the debate?
I attended the Crues v Reds game on Boxing Day. I saw ONE Tricolour, and ONE Ulster Banner - so what?Nobody there seemed offended or put out by it. Do fans of clubs in the Republic not have Tricolours that they bring to games?
Would this stop in an AI League?
When was the last time we had 5 players sent off in a IL game?
Is it a regular occurance?
How would an AI league have stopped what happened on the pitch?
Last edited by Not Brazil; 28/12/2009 at 5:10 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Of course, things like that never happen in full time, professional leagues.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...-brawl-masseur
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE51J2XA20090220
http://sportige.com/istanbul-derby/
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...626066&cc=5739
Not clear what point you are (poorly) attempting to make, in the context of our discussion?
If you type "ill tempered derby match" into your search engine, you might be surprised to learn that it is not an exclusive phenomenon to the IL.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 28/12/2009 at 5:15 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
In itself nothing. But will they be able to survive this? Or will we be talking about them in the same terms as we have previously talked about Larne, Derry, Omagh, Coleraine, Drogheda, Shamrock Rovers, Shelbourne, Cork and Distillery come the summer?I'm fairly familiar with Carrick through work too, but what has vandals burning down part of their Clubhouse facilities got to do with the debate?
I really hope your not seriousI saw ONE Tricolour, and ONE Ulster Banner - so what?
They weren't offended by it because they weren't there. thats my whole point. They were in the house eating day old turkey or down the pub watching Birmingham v Chelsea. Its all well and good complaining about people who support English teams and never darken the door of an IL/LOI ground. But no one ever seems to question WHY people would prefer to watch their adopted English team on telly than go along to watch a local game.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
There, but for the grace of God (or the actions of vandals), go all of us.
What has a fire at a Clubhouse got to do with any of the above, and how would an AI League prevent vandals starting fires?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I was being absolutely serious. Do you seriously think that I should take offence at a (National) Flag?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Aye, it must be the flags.
How would an AI League change that by the way?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
This is the one of your 3 posts i'm responding to. In fairness to myself it should have been the second one!Aye, it must be the flags.
How would an AI League change that by the way?
I'm far from the worlds biggest message board facist, but seriously. Why 3??
In answer to all your questions...
A serious professional club should be fairly immune to local vandals. If you've seen that building you will know what I mean. It was asking for it. I mean, a felt roof, wooden walls. It was inevitable! Much as I would love to rely on the milk of human decency, if your best protection against vandals is the grace of god, I seriously hope your not in charge of Linfield.
And if you don't think either national flag causes offence in Northern Ireland, sit back and have a long hard think. For me the the former banner of the Government of Northern Ireland represents 5 decades of discrimination and gerrymandering, and for the average unionist the tricolour represents 3 decades of terrorism and chaos. Anyone who thinks anything else is lieing to themselves, and for football to become the success rugby is becoming, we need to appeal to average people!
If football in the north wants a family audience back, 1 national flag is 1 too many ... and you know it!
And finally,
An AIL would change all that by returning the debate to the football. Both leagues lack combativeness. An AIL would end the monotony of Linfield v Glens and Bohs v whoever hasn't been relegated for financial irregularities south of the line!
One of these days I hope to get behind Linfield at the end of the season, because thet are the Ulster side. And when I can football will be better off.
But ALL their fans have to stop calling me a f****n b*stard, and they ALL have to stop thinking of me as one as well. I recognise all nationalist football fans in the north must do the opposite, and I promise I will do everything I can to make it so, but people like you and me will make it happen.
And I promise to do everything I can! Be it on Belfast Celtic's terrace, or the next one that comes to mind.
Last edited by backstothewall; 29/12/2009 at 12:12 AM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
1. I don't believe the cure to arsonists in Carrick burning things is for the local football club to become full time, professional. I don't believe that Clubs in an AI 3rd or 4th tier (as Carrick would be in such a scenario) would be/should be full time, professional.
2. I have to confess that I take a different view on flags than you - and I'm not lying. Are you suggesting that national Flags should be prohibited from grounds North and South of the border?
Do you object to a Tricolour with Cliftonville FC, Belfast on it, for example?
Should, say, Shamrock Rovers fans be banned from bring Tricolours to matches?
I don't.
3. Ironically, you attempt to make a point about the Crues v Reds game on Boxing Day, and then say "both leagues lack combativeness".
The IL is heading for an exciting 2nd half to the season - looking forward to it.
How, exactly, would the addition of Linfield FC and Glentoran FC to the LOI Premier league, on a full time, professional, basis progress football on this island?
This question has been posed on numerous occassions, and has not been answered with anything but fluffy nonsense.
4. Do you honestly believe that an AI League will stop people being called naughty names?
There are several "nationalists" on the Linfield team - that sort of thing seems more of interest to you than me - I think of them as Linfield players - nothing more, nothing less.
5. Belfast Celtic are a Historical Society, not a football club. They don't have a terrace. They're gone. Get over it.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
This is all getting a bit off topic. The initial debate is about the national teams uniting. I don't think the Crusaders v Cliftonville match has any bearing on that or Distillery being in trouble. Doesnt make a difference. Cork City are in trouble too. so what? makes no difference to the national team. Clubs fold and others are founded....
on a side note I thought Baxter spoke quite well after that Crusaders match and do think the ref was way over the top in some of his decisions against them....the ref ruined that game
Folding my way into the big money!!!
You have zero knowledge of the local game and you have no real or vested interest in it either. Yet you advocate radical change as the only way forward.
How do you know!! I have watched a lot of LoI football. My father was a Boh's fan and my cousin is a fanatical Rovers fan and I have been many times to watch El games when over nin Dublin. My views are not based on "zero Knowledge" but on simple economics and an increasing amount of empirical evidence (Cork, Derry etc). The domestic game is clearly not sustainable when even the best teams with the biggest potential fan bases get into dire financial straights. That is a fact not an opinion!
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