Public Sector Cost-Cutting

[Fr Damo]

Alainis Morrissette might even write a song about it!

This Government should go now, simple. Very interesting letter to the editor in todays indi

I AM very pleased with the unions' suggestion of unpaid leave for public servants. This will mean that I have three extra weeks at home with my young children.
With the tax rebate that I will get, I don't think I will lose much of my salary. However, as I am a teacher in a small school, I do have concerns for the pupils who will lose out on teaching days and I am concerned as to who will supervise them in my absence.
I am quite surprised that the Government has agreed to this deal and I am wondering what mandate Mr McLoone has.
Did he become and I failed to notice?

Name and address in paper.

[micls]

Talks collapsed this afternoon.

Here we go again.

[Mr A]

It really does sound like Cowen and co ballsed this up completely. Worked their way to agreement, then threw the rattle out of the pram because they were afraid their idiot backbenchers and IBEC would be annoyed with them.

[centre mid]

What ever happens in the Budget social partnership is dead and there may be trade union trouble for years to come after the waste of time this barganing was. WTF did FF even go into this for?

It would have been far far better to have just said srew you to the unions in the first place, this government is so inept.

[NeilMcD]

Alainis Morrissette might even write a song about it!

This Government should go now, simple. Very interesting letter to the editor in todays indi


Name and address in paper.

mmm, where did this teacher find out the exact workings of the proposed system. It was not known whether the teachers woudl be gettting the unpaid leave on top of the 2/3 summer holidays.

Secondy how could you trust the indo when they have not published the name of the person. I honestly would not trust anything that comes from that paper in reliation to industrial relations.

[Fr Damo]

The Indo did post the name and address, I didn't cos I didn't think it would be right but told ye where to get it by saying "name and address in paper".

I think the point the letter was trying to make was this 12 days un paid wasn't / isn't workable at the front end, Garda. teachers hospitals, social welfare. It's the back up of these services where the fat is as far as I am aware. And although I have said everybody should be taking a cut i believe some should be taking more than others. Politicans who are being paid 110k a year I think, should be hit with 20% and to allow them still earn c 90k which lets be honest is about 60 k more then they'd earn in industry as many on this board are who are much more intellectual than them are on the average industrial.


General election on the cards, Government Tds are pulling rank and the budget might not passed by the house.

[NeilMcD]

I think Begg has just hit the nail on the head on RTE 1 just now. He has a view that the Government, had 2 aspects to the talks. One stated (correct the budget defecit) and one not stated (to bring down wages across the board both private and public as response to the fact we cannot reduce our currency). When the talks were pretty close to agreement on the first bit, the back benchers and some ministers in their talks with ISME shat themselves as the unstated goal would not be achieved even though the first bit would.

I thin his analysis is dead right, and that is why this private sector public sector divide is rubbish and it goes alon with what has been said here all along that a reduction in wages in the public sector does not do any good to paye workers in the private sector.

[John83]

... a reduction in wages in the public sector does not do any good to paye workers in the private sector.

Ché? I fail to see how this is the case.

[NeilMcD]

Is that meant to be some sort of dig there John. Pathetic really. Here is some economics. Mary works in the public sector, she has 100 euro disposable income a week, after the cuts she has 90 euro disposable income a week, she is now less likely to be spending as much money in shops, pubs restaurants etc and as a result business goes down in the private sector, with eventual pay cuts and lay offs.

Secondly as the Irish economy cannot develue its currency, IBEC and ISME and others want to devalue the wages across the board here in Ireland. The very fact that the targeted figure of 1.3 billion was going to be met, but yet the government with the backing of ISME and IBEC pulled the plug, suggests that that was not the actual goa. It was their stated goal but their unstated one, was much more important to them, which is to drive down wages across the board. Cuts in public sector wages will lead to further cuts in private sector wages, using scenario 1 as an excuse.

[John83]

Is that meant to be some sort of dig there John. Pathetic really.

No, Neil, it was a simple request for clarification on a rather bold claim.

Here is some economics. Mary works in the public sector, she has 100 euro disposable income a week, after the cuts she has 90 euro disposable income a week, she is now less likely to be spending as much money in shops, pubs restaurants etc and as a result business goes down in the private sector, with eventual pay cuts and lay offs.

This is a spectacularly reductionist piece of economics. Mary's pay decrease also reduces pay inequality and drives price reductions which benefit people on low incomes in the private sector. The interactions between these elements are not trivial.

[NeilMcD]

No, Neil, it was a simple request for clarification on a rather bold claim.


This is a spectacularly reductionist piece of economics. Mary's pay decrease also reduces pay inequality and drives price reductions which benefit people on low incomes in the private sector. The interactions between these elements are not trivial.

No the Che comment, was cheap and childish dig, thats what I was referring to in my first sentence.


The tax intake also reduces, as Mary is paying less tax and the businesses are making less money and employing less people, so the tax take reduces and as a result there are less services for people in the society. I must be rather foolish not to cop that ISME IBECT and Fianna Fail are in reality puruing an equality agenda which sees a smaller spread of wealth across the economy.

[NeilMcD]

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...s-1965635.html

Fair play to gene kerrigan an oasis in the desert that is that rag

[Cosmo]

My view would be a two day strike, Tuesday and Wednesday next week.

The day here, day there strikes are a waste of time - ill only be voting for an all out strike from now on!!! (will never happen though unfotunately when ye consider the one day stike was only voted by 70% of pseu members!!)

[John83]

No the Che comment, was cheap and childish dig, thats what I was referring to in my first sentence.

Oh, I understand the confusion. I was using it in its idiomatic Spanish meaning - roughly, "Eh?" (pretentious, moi?), but it's certainly ambiguous. Not my intention, and apologies for the confusion.

The tax intake also reduces...

Look, I'm not saying that ultimately you're wrong. What I'm saying is that claiming it's as simple as you are claiming is foolish.

[NeilMcD]

Oh, I understand the confusion. I was using it in its idiomatic Spanish meaning - roughly, "Eh?" (pretentious, moi?), but it's certainly ambiguous. Not my intention, and apologies for the confusion.


Look, I'm not saying that ultimately you're wrong. What I'm saying is that claiming it's as simple as you are claiming is foolish.

I was not saying it was simple, I suppose were are consricted on this board by the conventions of a post. In that we cannot write a paper on this or a thesis on it, or I do not have the time anyway. The problem is, that these are complex matters and we have policians and economists who are trying to paint it as a simple, if we solve the budgetary issues it will be all resolved. I know many people who perceive that that unions are getting in the way of the country recovering, and if onlyl we could get public sector pay cuts we would be out of the hot water. As Gene Kerrigan said, they said this about Nama, and about Lisbon.


Is it no spelt Qué by the way, hence the confusion. No prob on that, I thought you were trying to portray me as a die in the wool socialist.

[Fr Damo]

[QUOTE]

Mary works in the public sector, she has 100 euro disposable income a week, after the cuts she has 90 euro disposable income a week, she is now less likely to be spending as much money in shops, pubs restaurants etc and as a result business goes down in the private sector, with eventual pay cuts and lay offs.

I think Neil the goal is, and I agree it's idealistic, with prices falling on the back of competitiveness Mary will still buy the same goods for 90 euro.........albeit eventually.
We are so small here, we need to realise we have to be export led to get anything like the "standard of Living" we had, or might aspire to. BTW I have standard in qoutes becasue it is argued we had f... all working 60 hours a week anyway.

We need foregin currency to keep this country going and becuase of the Strong Euro (weak dollar and sterling depending on how you look at it) our exporters, who add the real value to our GNP, just cannot survive let alone expand. I'm talking about the small food producer with ten people, or the metal fabricator with 50 people etc. The real economy.
The storey's about 400 million euro being lost/spent up north this year suits the government at the moment, don't be fooled by it as it is only the turnover of four large car dealerships and in the scheme of things not a whole lot.

sorry if I upset some Louthonians!

[NeilMcD]

Plus the corrupt seeling of our gas resources off the coast of Mayo fit in with this small open polity view. I agree we are a small open polity who needs to be export led. Hence why we should have had tax breaks for people to invest in entrepreneurs rather than property. In addition we should not have sold out natural resources so norwegian speculators can take the profits, which help the schools and hospitals of norway while our ones go to ****.

It really is time for Fianna Fail to get the hell out of there. Unfortunately people who do not see all of this will probably be patting them on the back for standing up to the unions.

[Ringo]

Union leaders have warned that public sector pay cuts in Wednesday's budget could lead to chaos and unrest.

Peter McLoone of IMPACT told RTÉ that the Finance Minister Brian Lenihan had cautioned last year that pay cuts in France could lead to riots - and warned that we could expect a similar reaction here.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1206/partnership.html


Strange thing to predict. Judging by the polls yesterday , the majority of the public blame the unions /public service. Now the unions are pedicting riots.

[Fr Damo]

Silly man imo

The Public service people I talk to in the pub, at football matches etc are nowhere near what he is talking about. I'm sick saying it but in my experince there is a general acceptance that pay is going to be cut and most of the PS are prepared to get on with it.

Neil, i think your view on the gas fields is a bit extreme though, I agree we missed a trick there.

[Macy]

He's wrong, because the Irish are to thick and/or lazy to stand up for themselves. Do you think a Government in any democracy would've survived to even be in a position to give this budget, given they were the main cause of it? Do you think in most countries the population would've fallen hook, line and sinker for the divide and conquer tactics of making it worker v worker?

I think public servanst might accept cuts, if they see the top boys taking circa 25%. I doubt that will happen, as TD and Ministers pay is linked to the top public servants, it'll be some lip service amount instead. People have also been consistent in calling for an overall economic plan to provide context for any cuts. We are still waiting for the Government to produce one.

btw We were raped of our natural resources, such as the gas, by corrupt Governments. We don't even have surity of supply, never mind a financial benefit. Look at the signatories of the various deals giving over our resources, and the tax deals done subsequently.