Public v Private Sector Debate

[Peadar]

As someone who works in the public sector I take great offence at your private sector chauvinism.

As someone who has to work with public sector agencies and deal with their complacent attitude, lack of ambition and eagerness to continually pass the buck, I stand by my assertion.
Don't even get me started on flexi-time.

We commit to deliver projects on time and within budget but have to contend with public sector employees who are determined to drag the projects out as long as possible, simply to justify their own existence.
I've seen it all and it will take a lot to change my opinion of the public sector.

[Dodge]

Loving the generalisation Peadar. I'd put my workload and work ethic up against any priovate sector worker (And I do get the irony of doing this during work hours..)

[Peadar]

Loving the generalisation Peadar. I'd put my workload and work ethic up against any priovate sector worker (And I do get the irony of doing this during work hours..)

Dodge, we've had this conversation before. There are too few people willing to put the effort in and you're the exception, not the rule.

A woman in the department which we both know, once told me that any ambition you may have when you join the Civil Service, is soon sucked out of you and the longer you stay, the more reluctant you are to encourage change.
She told me this during one of her many coffee breaks, having just come back from being on a flexi day.

[Dodge]

A flexi day she got by working 7 hours more than her normal time...

I'm just saying I could point to people in private sector jobs who doss just as much and have just as cushy numbers as some in the civil service. of course there are lazy sods in the civil service, but not everyone is like that and IMO the majority of people aren't like that.

[WeAreRovers]

Peader - Your lazy generalisations do nothing but give ammunition to dinosaurs like Bohs Partisan. I work in the public service, I have deadlines which I must meet (and do meet), same goes for everyone in my job. Others in here have targets to meet and again, they do their utmost to meet them.

My point is about unions running public transport and other utilities eg ESB, which cripples service and does nothing for paying customers. The CIE group of companies are an obvious example. But to tar all public servants with the same brush is plain wrong.

KOH

[pete]

My point is about unions running public transport and other utilities eg ESB, which cripples service and does nothing for paying customers. The CIE group of companies are an obvious example.

I think the problem is that as private sector workers we see the public sector as one big group. I believe this is because of the public sector unions sticking together & often supporting incompetence & intrangience in other sections.

If unions were willing to refuse support for sections of their members who clearly resisting change just because they can't be replaced they'd be taken a lot more seriously by the rest of us.

My favourite first hand story is from friend who had to install software for a public sector office. Dispite the fact everyone paid by direct debit into their bank accounts they continued to be given 1 hour paid leave per month just because once apon a time they used to get this to cash their cheques.

[paul_oshea]

A flexi day she got by working 7 hours more than her normal time...

I do that every fcuken week bar when I am off the clock but i still work more than 80% in the public sector.

Peadar, I stand beside you on this one, WE have seen different areas of public sector, know others who have also been in many different areas of public sector, not like these lot who only see their own department.

When I worked for my previous company, I used to work till 11.30 some evenings, prolly only once every 2 weeks, but most evenings were until 7 or 8. That does not happen in the public sector, and there was no such thing as flexi time, or days off or overtime pay or anything. When I settle down and have a family, guess where I am applying for a job?????? ya you guessed it.

Over here its even easier, everyone says about the CS, that all the work gets done from 10 - 12, and nothing after that, they ONLY have to be in the office from 10 - 12 and 2 - 4, how fcuken easy is that?

Its funny how defensive some can be though when they think there cage or existence is rattled, its proof they know how handy they have it and dont want it to be changed.

[BohsPartisan]

Peader - Your lazy generalisations do nothing but give ammunition to dinosaurs like Bohs Partisan.

I hope you see the irony WAR.

When I worked for my previous company, I used to work till 11.30 some evenings, prolly only once every 2 weeks, but most evenings were until 7 or 8

Its not our fault you're a sucker.

[Dodge]

I do that every fcuken week bar when I am off the clock but i still work more than 80% in the public sector.

Peadar, I stand beside you on this one, WE have seen different areas of public sector, know others who have also been in many different areas of public sector, not like these lot who only see their own department.

Not going to answer the rest of your post because I don't want to get banne dhere (it onvolved calling you a ****ig thick ****) but you're presuming an awful lot about me, WeAreRovers and Bohs partisan if you think we've only ever had one job. I suiggest you get a ****ing clue before you come on pontificating and moaning about how **** your job is

[paul_oshea]

no i dont think you have had one job, but i have seen loads of different departments within the public sector, from Education to environment and rural agencies to work and pensions. Like it or not Dodge, its a generalisation from everyone that doesnt work in the public sector, and generalisations are generally true thats the real problem with them. I have seen this myself with my own eyes, to back this up. I amn't however saying there aren't lazy fcukers ( with no change management/structural change or feelings to ever want to change either ) that work outside of the public sector either. When i said "these lot" i was refering to those within the public sector that i have seen.

finally I wasn't assuming anything about you or anyone else on the forum, just what i have seen in the public sector ( again you never read or understand my posts correctly )

[BohsPartisan]

There are very few sections in my building that are under-worked and thats a fact. In fact in the building I was in before that you could say the same thing. I'm not saying there are no inneficiencies but I would put that down to the Laurel and Hardy buffoonery of a lot of senior management and ironically enough, the role of outside consultants who haven't a breeze what we do yet bullsh't the higher ups into thinking they're worth millions of euros of departmental budget.

[Peadar]

There are very few sections in my building that are under-worked and thats a fact. In fact in the building I was in before that you could say the same thing. I'm not saying there are no inneficiencies but I would put that down to the Laurel and Hardy buffoonery of a lot of senior management and ironically enough, the role of outside consultants who haven't a breeze what we do yet bullsh't the higher ups into thinking they're worth millions of euros of departmental budget.

Civil Service basic training, how to look busy and get nothing done.

Anyone here every had to ring the Revenue Commisioners? or their Local Authority about getting on the Register of Electors? or any other department for that matter?

[BohsPartisan]

Anyone here every had to ring the Revenue Commisioners? or their Local Authority about getting on the Register of Electors? or any other department for that matter?

Yeah but its never the staff that suggest those phonebanks to nowhere.
As for your snide remark, put you in the Benefits section in Social Welfare I GAURANTEE you'd run out screaming by the end of day two!

[WeAreRovers]

I hope you see the irony WAR.

Well spotted, still think you're a political dinosaur though.

KOH

[paul_oshea]

the role of outside consultants who haven't a breeze what we do yet bullsh't the higher ups into thinking they're worth millions of euros of departmental budget.

question then, why do you think it is that they get so many consultants in? Obviouslly they feel they can learn and need to change things round to work more effectively and cut costs, otherwise surely they would continue as they are already doing?

Its not our fault you're a sucker.

That line sums up the difference between the mindset and mentality of those who work in the public sector and private sector completely. The simple, ( extremely ) flexible hours and flexi time, cushy number 35 hour weeks, less if you be nice to your manager (and say you "have to do the shopping tonight early" - or something silly to that effect ) lots of breaks, pretend you are doing work, no ambition to get somewhere, ah yes the civil service workforce.

[dahamsta]

paul_o_shea, we have a "fcuken" filter for a reason. From now on all posts of yours that try to avoid it will be deleted.

Same goes for the rest of ye. Calm down for feck's sake, ye sound like ranting eejits!

[Peadar]

As for your snide remark, put you in the Benefits section in Social Welfare I GAURANTEE you'd run out screaming by the end of day two!

Because you guys are so special, you have super powers, that us lame old private sector folk don't have.
I've worked for loads government departments state agencies, between here and the UK. I've worked around the world. I've seen and done it all. Believe me, dealing with Civil Servants, who will try to drop you in it, to cover their own arses is where the real danger is. You've got to be constantly on your toes.

Unlike your lot, we can lose our jobs, if we're deemed to be unprofessional. That's why we can't behave like civil servants. That's why we're 100 times more efficient. That's why we're paid to come in and do their jobs for them.

[dahamsta]

On topic, I have (extended) family working in the civil service, and they always struck me as hard-working and conscientious. However I've met the other type, and their attitudes were sickening. The problem with these is obviously the jobs-for-life mentality, which shouldn't be a factor. There should be no such thing as a job for life, not in the civil service, not in education (tenure), not anywhere.

adam

[BohsPartisan]

question then, why do you think it is that they get so many consultants in? Obviouslly they feel they can learn and need to change things round to work more effectively and cut costs, otherwise surely they would continue as they are already doing?

No its for a number of reasons.
1. Political. Outsoursing is privatisation by stealth. The government is ideologically committed to this.
2. People making decisions being dazzled by vacuous consultant speak (have you ever played Bullsh1t Bingo? Google it).
3. Cut backs in training budgets. (despite the fact that long term, in house training is more cost-effective).


As a union rep, I have encountered quite a few cases where my department has outsourced where the skills already existed within the department.

That line sums up the difference between the mindset and mentality of those who work in the public sector and private sector completely.

No it just sums up that people have lives and aren't willing to work ridiculous hours when they have families.You don't live to work, you work to live and if work stops you from living it defeats the purpose. BTW I work way more than 35 hours a week. Flexi-time is as beneficial for the department and people using the departmental services as it is for staff.

Because you guys are so special, you have super powers, that us lame old private sector folk don't have.
.

Its only the inverse of what you've been saying all along so don't start crying now. It is my experience of consultants that they are completely incompetant at everything bar swindling the department.

[wws]

When I worked for my previous company, I used to work till 11.30 some evenings, prolly only once every 2 weeks, but most evenings were until 7 or 8. That does not happen in the public sector.

Paul O Shea - you are of course completely incorrect here. Yes, it DOES happen, you just don't know of it therefore your points are pretty much made in ignorance.

Peadar - ever try ring a support company with their call centre based in India? Dealt with NTL lately? BT internet? - You see where I'm going with this one don't you? Ring your local authority - 99 times out of a hundred I'd wager any money you'd get a more satisfactory response to your query than any call to the companies mentioned (and countless others who provide mediocre "customer service").