Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[ArdeeBhoy]

Didnt Johnny Giles and co play Brazil with an All-Ireland team years ago wearing Shamrock Rovers jerseys? By all accounts it was a great success

Yes, it's been too long! We should start a campaign for a re-match?

[Not Brazil]

Yes, it's been too long! We should start a campaign for a re-match?

Good luck with that.

increased prize money and possibly get sky involved in showing matches like ihe IL hads gotten them to do? skys advertisement wold be a big help and itv,bbc1,rte,tg4 and tv3 could show a match every week between them. lots of tv involved and possibly setanta if there alive and kill the setanta cup obviously.
just bloody bombard people with it!

That's all well and good, but how does that doesn't really deal with the issue.

How, exactly, does the EL + The Blues and Glens signify the cure for all the problems with the domestic game on the island?

Regarding "bombarding people with it", could that not just apply to the two respective leagues...ie. the two leagues do more to market what they've respectively got?

Unfortunately, we've got too many Premiership, SPL etc fans on the island, who wouldn't set foot inside the ground of their local club. Getting them out of the armchair/bar to watch domestic football is a big ask.

I just don't think the answer to that is the EL + The Blues and Glens.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's more to do with the quality of the 'product' being cr*p.

And the snotty-nosed attitude of fans on all sides.

[seanfhear]

1. An AI "Premier" league is something I'd be keen to discuss/consider. I was hoping you could explain to me how it would be truly beneficial to domestic football on this island...as I see it, it would be an EL + Linfield FC and Glentoran FC. That being the case, how would it really transform Irish domestic football?

2. Setanta Cup group matches are played "home and away".

3. There are league championships and European places available in BOTH leagues at present...how would this be a benefit, therefore, in an AI "Premier" League?

First off Not Brazil TRY SOME POSITIVITY

It does not just have to be Linfield and Glentoran. There could be more clubs from NI if they could show that they would have something to contribute to the league. Clubs from the LOI would have to do the exact same thing. I just singled out Linfield and Glentoran as they are clubs with obvious potential.

Surely better clubs playing against one another must drive up standards. Better clubs competing against one another to obtain European places/league championships/better prize money has to produce a better product for the fan too watch.

Lets just say for a minute that I had a magic wand and I could give an all-Ireland league two champions league places and 3/4 Europa league places and much improved television coverage and better prize money for clubs doing well.

Do you think that this would create a greater interest in club football on the Island. Now I am not saying for a minute that these things can be achieved but if they are not aimed for they certainly will not be achieved.

With the clubs in England having the pick of the best young players from all over the world I worry that neither of the FAs will have enough young players developed in England in the future. If the clubs on this island do not get their act together where will young Irish players be developed in the future. (I am getting a bit negative myself here)

If we keep on doing the same old things in the same old way we will continue getting the same old results.

The status quo is broke.

Its time to open up our imaginations and come up with new solutions.

I am willing to listen to all constructive proposals.

[ifk101]

I am willing to listen to all constructive proposals.

seanfhear;

If you can manage to come with a viable proposal, I'm sure you'll get constructive responses.

But what the heck, here's my proposal.

I suggest that LOI clubs stop spending money they don't have. End.

[seanfhear]

seanfhear;

If you can manage to come with a viable proposal, I'm sure you'll get constructive responses.

But what the heck, here's my proposal.

I suggest that LOI clubs stop spending money they don't have. End.

Nothing wrong with that suggestion. This is a problem that FAs around the world have. Some wide boys for various reasons spend more money than clubs can afford. This has probably more to do with Company law and I suppose the same can be said of Companies in other "industries" as well.

These wide boys know that they are not personally responsible for these debts and are happy to play fast and loose with club finances.

These guys are the kind of hucksters that will let a perfectly viable company go bust if there is more money to be made from letting it go bust.

There were a crowd of crooks running a club in North london approx 20 years ago and every bit of work or service that was done for that club was done at inflated prices so that certain people were looked after. These people did not care that they were bankrupting the club as they were not going to be resposible for the debt and were on some nice little earners.

Anyway to stop clubs spending more money that they have got you would have to reform Capitalism and the people that are partaking in it. Good luck.
Apologies for going way off topic

[Not Brazil]

That's more to do with the quality of the 'product' being cr*p.

And the snotty-nosed attitude of fans on all sides.

I would hope that many EL fans would agree with me, but I don't subscribe entirely to "the product is crap" mindset.

It might be "crap" in comparison to, say, Premiership football, but I have watched many excellent games involving clubs from both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Have you watched some of the SPL stuff on TV? - it's brutal.

I believe that Sky are very happy with the audiences they get for IL coverage, and have been quite surprised at the "product" on offer.

I broadly support the concept of an AI "Premier" League - I just cannot work out the real benefits of it.

Would it really increase attendances?

Would it damage Clubs outside of it?

Would it place Clubs in even more financial peril?

How would European places be effected?

Just some of the questions I cannot answer.

Lets just say for a minute that I had a magic wand and I could give an all-Ireland league two champions league places and 3/4 Europa league places and much improved television coverage and better prize money for clubs doing well.

We have TWO Champions League places on the island.

We have at least four Europa League places available on the island.

We have regular coverage of live games.

[Acornvilla]

We have TWO Champions League places on the island.

We have at least four Europa League places available on the island.

We have regular coverage of live games.

coverage could and should be much better.

[seanfhear]

We have TWO Champions League places on the island.

We have at least four Europa League places available on the island.

We have regular coverage of live games.

It would be a big asset to an all Ireland league if we could retain all of these places from one league.

[backstothewall]

I would hope that many EL fans would agree with me, but I don'tr subsribe entirely to "the product is crap".

Perhaps on the pitch, but the match day experience is very poor. The facilites are terrible, and the experience just isn't sexy enough. Perimeter fences, ramshackle stands, stadiums stuck at the end of pokey terraced streets, parking, sectarianism, dreadful websites, dog-tracks round the pitch, etc etc. The football can be decent enough, but the product is crap.

There are signs of life, Crusaders proposals for the Grove for example, but will they ever get off the drawing board? They didn't even manage to rebuild the wall that blew over at the railway end. Just stuck up a bit of fence and left it.

[Not Brazil]

Perhaps on the pitch, but the match day experience is very poor. The facilites are terrible, and the experience just isn't sexy enough. Perimeter fences, ramshackle stands, stadiums stuck at the end of pokey terraced streets, parking, sectarianism, dreadful websites, dog-tracks round the pitch, etc etc. The football can be decent enough, but the product is crap.

There are signs of life, Crusaders proposals for the Grove for example, but will they ever get off the drawing board? They didn't even manage to rebuild the wall that blew over at the railway end. Just stuck up a bit of fence and left it.

There is plenty wrong with what some think is "sexy" elsewhere - but that's a whole different story.

If you want your football "sexy", then the EL or IL is not the place to be.

If you want relatively few overpaid prima donnas, no alice bands, no prawn sandwiches, relatively little gamemanship, and to watch guys giving their all primarily for the love of the game (rather than fortunes)...I think it's ok.

Plenty of progress with stadia being made in Northern Ireland - not finished yet, but it going in the right direction.

coverage could and should be much better.

Sky's coverage of IL games has been excellent.

More of the same please....

[Fixer82]

Good luck with that.

I just love your positivity!!!! So refreshing!

[backstothewall]

There is plenty wrong with what some think is "sexy" elsewhere - but that's a whole different story.

If you want your football "sexy", then the EL or IL is not the place to be.

If you want relatively few overpaid prima donnas, no alice bands, no prawn sandwiches, relatively little gamemanship, and to watch guys giving their all primarily for the love of the game (rather than fortunes)...I think it's ok.

Precisely why would decent facilites, good catering, or toilet blocks that don't smell like something died in them a couple of years back stop the players giving 100%?

I don't see how something Roy Keane cited as an example about 70,000 people not making much noise applies to the debate when we are talking about teams who get a couple of hundred people through the gates most weeks

And what is so evil about prawn sandwiches? Why does wanting to buy a prawn sandwich and a cappiacino (sp) at half time make someone less of a fan than the guy who brings a bag of crisps and a can of coke? Fact is they both pay through the gate, but Prawn sandwich man is currently happier sitting in the house watching Gilette Soccer Saturday, or cutting the grass.

There is actually more commercial opportunity for IL/LOI clubs through catering and other secondary sales than through gate receipts. No one will ever pay EPL ticket prices, but the profit margin on a prawn sandwich is the same at Old Trafford as it is at the Oval or Shamrock Park.

[Stuttgart88]

I suggest that LOI clubs stop spending money they don't have. End.

Why is it that when people finish a statement with "end" or "end of" there are usually dozens of possible counters or additions that the poster seemingly doesn't want to listen to?

I've an open mind on an AIL. Years ago the Longford Town goalkeeper was interviewed on foot.ie and he said that there were good players in Ireland, but not enough to be spread around all the teams in the top league. So fewer teams with more good players per team is needed. An AIL could improve the average playing standard in a 10-12 team top flight - same number of teams but the playing population is increased.

My instinct is that a wholesale restructuring of European football, or its competitions, may be the answer. I'm considering focusing on this topic for a degree dissertation I have to submit next year.

With regard to the two associations merging, I don't think NI fans should be made to accept a 32 county national side if they don't want to. Nor should ROI fans for that matter. It's a bit of a goofed up situation where a state / country (Britain) has 4 international teams and a tiny island has 2 but that's the way it is I guess.

[Stuttgart88]

And what is so evil about prawn sandwiches? Why does wanting to buy a prawn sandwich and a cappiacino (sp) at half time make someone less of a fan than the guy who brings a bag of crisps and a can of coke?

I always wondered when Keane made that remark if he appreciated that attracting that type of customer was part of the reason he got paid so much. MUFC could charge less for tickets and pay their players less accordingly, but I'm sure RK wouldn't have liked that either.

[ifk101]

Why is it that when people finish a statement with "end" or "end of" there are usually dozens of possible counters or additions that the poster seemingly doesn't want to listen to?

Perhaps the poster is distracted by the pie in the sky.

I've an open mind on an AIL. Years ago the Longford Town goalkeeper was interviewed on foot.ie and he said that there were good players in Ireland, but not enough to be spread around all the teams in the top league. So fewer teams with more good players per team is needed. An AIL could improve the average playing standard in a 10-12 team top flight - same number of teams but the playing population is increased.

If we look at the current country ranking for European leagues, the LOI is ranked 29th and the IL 49th out of 53 leagues. Merging the LOI and IL would be the equivalent of the LOI merging with the Dutch league (currently ranked 9th in Europe). Yes the playing population would be increased if the LOI joined with the Dutch but would the average playing standard also increase? LOI clubs would certainly benefit from playing against higher quality Dutch opposition but would the playing standard of Dutch clubs improve from playing LOI sides? I wonder did Digger O'Brien consider that.

[osarusan]

If we look at the current country ranking for European leagues, the LOI is ranked 29th and the IL 49th out of 53 leagues. Merging the LOI and IL would be the equivalent of the LOI merging with the Dutch league (currently ranked 9th in Europe). Yes the playing population would be increased if the LOI joined with the Dutch but would the average playing standard also increase? LOI clubs would certainly benefit from playing against higher quality Dutch opposition but would the playing standard of Dutch clubs improve from playing LOI sides? I wonder did Digger O'Brien consider that.

While that may seem the logical "equivalent" when you add or subtract 20 to the LOI's ranking to get 9 or 49, I don't think the gap between LOI and IL is the same as the gap between the Dutch league and LOI. I don't think you think that either.

[ifk101]

While that may seem the logical "equivalent" when you add or subtract 20 to the LOI's ranking to get 9 or 49, I don't think the gap between LOI and IL is the same as the gap between the Dutch league and LOI. I don't think you think that either.

I just used that to highlight that there is a gap in standard between the two leagues that (a) would need the IL clubs catch up fast, or (b) LOI clubs to come down to IL level or (c), the most likely, IL club standards to increase with LOIs standard decreasing to meet somewhere in the middle. If we are talking purely about playing standards, merging is not of benefit for LOI clubs.

[osarusan]

If we are talking purely about playing standards, merging is not of benefit for LOI clubs.

Fair enough.

Though I don't think that any AIL has ever been about playing standards.

[ifk101]

Fair enough.

Though I don't think that any AIL has ever been about playing standards.

Well that's the problem. Football isn't the motivation behind AIL calls. That's why I'm against it.