QuoteReally? Im trying to put together a PhD proposal on perceptions of 'the border' in Irish writing. Let me get back to you on that offer at a later date, could be very helpful.Originally Posted by holidaysong
I just finished an MA in NI politics so I've loads of articles on ethnicity and identity in NI on my computuer. I can email some of them (including that Coakley one) if any of you are interested. Just PM me.
Really? Im trying to put together a PhD proposal on perceptions of 'the border' in Irish writing. Let me get back to you on that offer at a later date, could be very helpful.
Anyway, getting back to the topic - I'm not in favour of a merger of the two teams. As far as I'm concerned there are two nationalities on this island. My national team represents those who primarily identify as Irish. The NI team represents those who primarily identify as British and/or Northern Irish. That's not to say I disagree with the argument that you can be both British and Irish but if the point of international football is that different nations compete against each other then I don't see how someone from Newry who considers himself to be primarily British (even if they also consider themselves to be Northern Irish and/or Irish in some way) can support the same team as someone from Dundalk who considers himself to be Irish (and in no way British).
My thesis title was 'A geographical analysis of public opinion in the Republic of Ireland concerning the constitutional status of Northern Ireland'. I used public opinion surveys and electoral data to map attitudes towards 'the north' and 'the border' throughout the ROI. I'm sure there's quite a bit out there in Irish literature too. I assume you've read it already but in case you haven't you need to read Colm Tóbín's 'Bad Blood - a walk along the Irish border'.Really? Im trying to put together a PhD proposal on perceptions of 'the border' in Irish writing. Let me get back to you on that offer at a later date, could be very helpful.
Apologies everyone for going way OT.
Cheers HS.
Apologies from me also for the deviation from football matters, but sure thats been goin on all day.
It has nothing to do with being "second class" Irish or any kind of class system, or indeed sectarianism.
It's quite simple really. Allow me to explain.
If you were to break down your national identity into it's constituent parts from 100%, how is it made up or broken down?
When I used the term 'less' Irish, I was not making a judgement call, merely an observation. 'Less Irish' does not mean 'not Irish'. If someone from NI states that he/she is British, I conclude through observation that the quotient of his/her identity made up by 'Irishness' is less than someone who states only Irish. This is an observation, not a judgement call. Holding one nationality over another does not denote good or bad. Both are what they are.
A person's respective identity/identities as pertaining to nationality, go together to make a whole. They are not whole, upon whole.....and so on. That is schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder.
you don't half talk some garbage. if you aren't trolling then....well, i'd rather not say.
here is a 2008 poll to set you straight, though no doubt your mind will refuse to accept it. i already posted the figures on this thread but obviously your subconscious didn't like them and blanked them out. please stop believing whatever nonsense your teacher/parents/friends are feeding your head and do us all a favour by finding out the truth.
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2008/Commu...s/NINATID.html
39% of catholics in NI DO NOT call themselves "irish" while 25% DO call themselves "northern irish".
a interesting point to note would be the figures on age and nationality. more people (of any outlook) under 35 call themselves "northern irish" than either "british" OR "irish".
Last edited by -lamb-; 22/11/2009 at 7:10 PM.
Larne FC for Larne Town. Inver Park for the people.
Not so. You've responded to the NI supporters telling you thanks, but we're not interested in joining your football team- by just repeating it, over and over and over again. It's not an argument, just a cliched slogan.
Who's bitter? I'm relieved you didn't make it, no more. If you're going to repeat the same sneers as above, you can hardly be surprised when they're occasionally returned.My last post was in response to your bitter and totally unnecessary comment about what happened Ireland last week
Don't be daft. How would either of us know what the typical fan in Africa or Asia or wherever thinks? Even if you did, you (and they notionally) are getting carried away by righteous indignation. Not conceding one dodgy goal didn't mean you'd have won overall, as I explained; conceding it doesn't make you particularly deserving. You lost unluckily, best get over it.You're in the minority (of world football supporters) if you think that Ireland don't deserve to be at the world cup
Guilty as charged, son (I assume you're an adult male, apologies if not). Only coming down to your level.And you haughtely dismiss other posters as sh!t stirrers (admittedly there are some) while coming out with a statement like a 'bunch of crybabies'. Get off the pot son
Spare us the pseudo-science, Dr Freud. It's got fcuk all to do with schizophrenia (which is distinct from multiple personality disorder). You're just a bigot who won't accept unionists as equally Irish. I'd change my psychiatrist if I were you.
Last edited by Gather round; 22/11/2009 at 7:25 PM.
It's not pseudo-science GR. It is simple fact!
Read my post more carefully - it will help you to understand.
..........then maybe you will reply more intelligently as opposed to lazily and stupidly accusing people of bigotry.
Last edited by The Fly; 22/11/2009 at 8:10 PM.
You were the one who came on here banging the odds, baby sheep.
But I'll give you the benefit for now and read those questions/answers properly when I have time.
Again I'd be be interested in the methodology. And if all the young Catholics are as you say, fair enough(Most of the ones I know are 30 or over) but they don't fall into not calling themselves Irish and Northern Irish, let alone both!
But accept in recent times there's a more inclusive view towards being 'northern Irish', as the alternative is NB's 'alter ego' ......but unless any of us are going to live for 200 years, doubt we'll be around when the majority of Northern Catholics/Nats. stop calling themselves such.
Fly- your conclusions through observation aren't facts, just opinion. They're also simplistic and a bit pretentious- I'm 100% Irish regardless of how your quotients of identity, whatever they are, say otherwise because I'm also British, or a Jedi, or whatever. I don't spend every waking hour (contrary to the timestamps on this thread) agonising how Irish I am, any more than you do.
More seriously, while I don't claim any more than a basic layman's knowledge of psychiatry, schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders, I'm pretty certain than claiming to be 100% Irish and British both isn't in itself evidence of any of them. Your previous post also seemed to think schizophrenia and MPD were the same thing.
It is fact GR.
For instance, if a person from Northern Ireland describes themselves as being equally Irish and British, then each nationality makes up 50% of the whole. They don't each represent 100%.
We were told by the IRFU that the SS is played in Dublin because it's the NA of the host nation. This is then followed by the sporting anthem, Ireland's Call. NI doesn't have an official sporting anthem, but is part of the UK, de facto GSTQ is the equivalent of the SS. Apart from these details, it's a matter of fair play and, in treating NI as a foreign country the IRFU let us all know where we stand.
And it is neither here nor there otherwise we'd have to have a plebiscite every time we wanted to play an anthem. Anthems come and go, sometimes because the populace wants rid of them, but up to that point countries are stuck with them.
Yes. Protestant, OO member, pro-royal and living in the RoI. Like I said, there aren't many left, but they do exist.Pro-royal..............how so?
Answered above. Be honest, it's more to do with disliking GSTQ than any other side issues isn't it?The IRFU has not failed to provide it, Northern Ireland as an entity has failed to provide it by not having it's own anthem, in common with the Scot's and the Welsh.
Aye, but yer average unionist would want to be100% Brit !
Unsure about the Irish quotient, but presumably substantially less ??
If I was an Irish nationalist, despite NB's bizarre parallel with the BNP, wouldn't want to be remotely British, if possible.
If you wish to "go all technical", Irish Nationals born in Northern Ireland have Dual Nationality - main exceptions being those who have sent the appropriate forms to the Home Office, denouncing their British Citizenship. I have never met one who has...and I've met many.
How do you think Irish Nationalists, born in Northern Ireland, qualify to play for Northern Ireland?
Last edited by Not Brazil; 22/11/2009 at 9:09 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Nothing "bizarre" about it - some of your language and ideals are straight out of the school of BNP thinking.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Northern Ireland, i.e:the host nation, does not have an official anthem and GSTQ is not it by default. This is a fact. Once again GSTQ has no official status in Northern Ireland. Apologies for being pedantic.
I have already stated that I would be against GSTQ being used to represent the Irish rugby team. If the sporting anthem ('Ireland's Call'), were to be used solely, I wouldn't have a problem with that. That's despite my dislike for it as a song, but then what do you expect when you ask Phil Coulter to write one.
You are talking < 100 people surely, even in Rossnowlagh who are willingly Irish citizens?
But don't worry, we don't mind them, nor them us!
As for TQ song, it's a terrible dirge. Why doesn't the North at least come into the 20th century and go for 'Danny Boy' (or similar) as a sporting anthem? At least it mentions the green Glens and you don't have to share it with the worst kind of moronic England fan....
Even 'The Sash' or something to the tune of 'The Billy Boys' would make more sense and be a dammed sight more rousing than that and the 'No Surrender' add-on!
Well I only know two, my sisters. Though to be fair they only ever have had Irish citizenship and never received such forms AFAIK.
Aye, wee Sammy Wilson, like most of the politicians in NI, he's not exactly blessed with wit or imagination.
I think it's hilarious, but it's got as much credibility as some of the republican pseudo-history we hear.the concept of Ulster usurped by staunch unionism annoys me - rightly or wrongly.
Here's one solution to much of this nonsense:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...259043506.html
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