QuoteIrrelevant. They didn't have to pay it (rightly or wrongly). They did anyway. That counts as rich people offering to pay more tax in my book.Originally Posted by dahamsta
They shouldn't have been excluded in the first place. Renumeration wasn't being reduced, they were being taxed more, just like everyone else. Gov.ie just didn't have the balls (or interest) to implement it.
Irrelevant. They didn't have to pay it (rightly or wrongly). They did anyway. That counts as rich people offering to pay more tax in my book.
You can't spell failure without FAI
I don't think I'd be able to read your book John83, it sounds awful.
By my reading, half of them were shamed into it, and the rest are just shameless.
Last edited by dahamsta; 27/10/2009 at 3:39 PM.
That's fair. I don't know that I'd have been too eager to hand over money I didn't have to in their place though.
You can't spell failure without FAI
I think I would if I could afford it, and if I couldn't afford it then I'd need to look at how I was living. Judges earn plenty.
However it should never have cropped up in the first place, as I said earlier.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-1940232.htmlTAOISEACH Brian Cowen will next week call the bluff of Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore by directly challenging them to detail how they would cut €4bn to salvage the public finances.
The Fine Gael and Labour leaders have so far refused to say where they would find the money to stave off the social welfare cuts being planned by the Government.
The mantra seems to be yes we need cuts , but someone else has to take the hit. More taxes seems to be the oppositions solution.
If they've any sense they'll come back with "let us see all the books and projections", which the Government won't do (and haven't in the past when they've been asked). Same as Lenihan earlier in the year, FF want it as a one sided act of good faith - party interest ahead of national interest.
Labour and FG normally publish alternative proposals anyway - Labour certainly did in April. Nice to see INM still see which side their bread is buttered on if they deem that worthy of the main headline.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Fergus Finlay has an excellent article on Public Service pay cuts in the Examiner:
Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/colum...nt-105725.htmlTHINK if I were a public servant today, I’d be mad as hell.
With a few well documented political exceptions, I’ve never known anyone who went into the public service to make money.
In fact if you wanted to make money, the last place you’d go for a career is into the public service.
Some people choose a public service career for security and many choose it because it offers the chance to do something or to be something they’ve always wanted to be. A nurse, a doctor, a teacher, a fireman. To work at healing the sick, catching the baddies, teaching the kids — I’ve known people who grew up from childhood wanting to do just that, and who have found tremendous fulfilment from following a chosen career as a public servant.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tallaght Stadium Regular
Surely if people didn't go into the public sector for the money the cuts shouldn't bother them?
I'm still trying to get my head around striking at the mere concept of cuts even before the details are announced. To me, that shows a fairly clear statement that its about the money.
I don't agree with what you've quoted there. The public sector spent the last decade with their hands out, even striking for pay increases (teachers, nurses, junior doctors (or was that only for better hours - though with their hours cut, they now want compensation for lost overtime pay), gardaí (technically 11 years ago)), and pushing hard to have their pay benchmarked against the private sector. Now, when the private sector is seeing massive pay reductions and layoffs, they're fighting to hold what they have. They want it both ways, and a 'they just want to heal the sick and teach children' soft focus doesn't ring true any more, if it ever did.
You can't spell failure without FAI
I don't think I know anyone that wouldn't be bothered by a pay cut, at any level of society.
Just because you are doing a job you know, and have always known, will never make you really rich, you are not entitled to be worried about salary cuts?
Last edited by dahamsta; 17/11/2009 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Leave the personal stuff out please.
If the Gardai are so eager to serve, why are an unprecedented number taking early retirement this year? Anything to do with the fear that their ridiculous "best three years earnings" pensions calculation is on the chopping board?
People don't like getting things taken away from them. Clearly the solution was not to pay unaffordable increases over the last decade to a cohort where the increases can't easily be taken back.
I believe Adam's prediction of widespread unrest/winter of discontent is at least 50-50 at this stage. The unions can't back down, they'll be signing their death warrant.
I'm not sure what "rich" means? The average public sector worker is richer than the private sector worker in many cases, as demonstrated by lots of studies.
Last edited by dahamsta; 17/11/2009 at 12:46 PM.
I've deleted the personal stuff from osarusan's comment, and ORA's reply.
osarusan, if you can't comment without the personal stuff, don't comment. ORA, you're entitled to your opinion but at this stage your cynicism is bordering on trolling. Knock it on the head please, or find somewhere else to post it.
Back on topic.
Last edited by dahamsta; 17/11/2009 at 12:47 PM.
Is this aimed at me, Adam? I'm assuming so because of it immediately following my post.
I'm not saying that they are or should be happy to cut their pay. I'm just saying that I dislike happy clappy newspaper comment columns portraying them as poor, underprivileged, saintly victims being picked on by the government.
You can't spell failure without FAI
No. Read the post before yours.
You would have to agree that these articles are drowned out in the media by far more anti public service than pro public service. Regardless of your view on these issues, the media coverage has been very biased against the unions and public service and to be honest, the media in general are nearly always anti union. Finlay and O Toole are the only 2 articles I have read that are in support of the public sectory unions. Obviosly this is disgarding, any socialist papers or sinn fein papers etc.
In Trap we trust
Spot on Neil. Indo being particularly agressive in thier "reporting"
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I can't say I pay enough attention to 'news' commentary these days to establish whether there's a bias Neil. Most of them are unbalanced dreck.
You can't spell failure without FAI
Morning Ireland this morning discredited a survey on private sector pay rises because it was based on averages, after leading on every survey on Private v Public sector pay based on averages. Average pay comparisons aren't valid, but it was an amazing turnaround of opinion from previous reports now it didn't suit their agenda. Lawlor point blank refused to let the IMPACT guy make his point on it and come back after her discrediting it.
There's very little balance in the media - RTE tows the Government line, Newstalk and Today FM controlled by O'Brien, and the Indo controlled by O'Reilly (even if you ignore that organisations history). The best of a bias lot is the Times print wise, Brawn on TV3 isn't bad (when he doesn't get distracted by the minutia, and it's more his opinion driven rather than balanced)
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
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