Poor lads, unable to scrape by on hundreds of thousands of euros a year. You can almost see the fingerless gloves on their grubby calloused hands, grasping a mouldy thin-breaded cheese sandwich, a faraway look on their faces as they contemplate the years and years of thankless hard labour they've completed on behalf of the nation, a tear in their eye at the thought of a job well...
...of a job...
...of...
Hmmm.
Let the market decide when the banks are privatised again in a few years. There shouldn't be any contracts now - the banks aren't going to come through this as private companies. We should just accept the inevitable, do the deed and stop being distracted from this messing at the edges and get in and fix the system.Originally Posted by pete
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
This made be laugh.
Irish Times
Gormley goes green as McCaughey news leaks
MIRIAM LORD
DÁIL SKETCH: JOO DILIGENCE fell off the wagon yesterday afternoon.
As Brian Cowen spoke in the Dáil, a dull thud was heard from somewhere in the vicinity of the Government benches. It was the familiar sound of the bibulous Ms Diligence as she buckled, prior to being carried out yet again.
On this occasion, the Taoiseach abandoned his practice of announcing the latest distressing episode to the House, because by now, everyone is well used to Joo Diligence being carried out.
However, he revealed that the heavy-lifting duties are currently being shouldered by a couple of strong men – later identified as the “public interest” board members of the troubled Two Fingers Building Society.
For the next few weeks, they will be carrying out Ms Diligence at regular intervals until her brother, Due Process, comes to collect her.
The trigger for this relapse was news that Michael “Fingers” Fingleton, the boss of a minor financial institution, was paid a huge cash bonus by his company after it had to be bailed out by hard-pressed taxpayers.
And once they saved his bacon, Fingleton sank his snout straight back into the Two Fingers Building Society trough, trousering a highly undeserved million euro.
Because he’s worth it.
A bit like Gerry McCaughey, pillar of the timber-frame construction industry and the Green Party’s pet businessman. Only recently, Minister John Gormley appointed him chairman of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority (DDDA).
Gerry’s worth it too, even if he doesn’t have a nickname like Josef Locke lookalike Fingleton, or Seánie Fitzpatrick aka The Borrower. Gerry is part of the new breed of Irish business people. He appears on programmes like Questions and Answers. He’s the sort of bloke you would look up to. He certainly impressed his patron, Minister Gormley. “One of our most successful Green entrepreneurs, and in the past decade, he has shown clear leadership on issues including regulatory reform and sustainable practices.” That’s what the Green Party leader said when putting Gerry in charge of the DDDA, as Labour’s Eamon Gilmore cruelly reminded him yesterday.
But the man with no nickname, at least in Deputy Gilmore’s eyes, appears to be no different to Seánie and Fingers. He avoided paying over €4 million in tax to the Irish exchequer in 2005.
According to the leader of the Labour Party, Mr McCaughey “legally avoided the payment of Capital Gains tax by the convenient means of transferring the shares of his spouse, who then transferred herself to Italy for the best part of a year to qualify as a tax exile.” Mr McCaughey stepped down from his position yesterday evening.
In fairness, Gerry McCaughey did nothing illegal. He had made around €23 million when his company was sold. Had his missus not gone down the exiled for tax purposes route, he would have had to pay over €4 million to the taxman here.
That would have left him with, oh, around €19 million. How could anyone be expected to live on that? Meanwhile, the case of Fingers Fingleton and his Two Fingers Building Society rumbles on. Enda Kenny demanded to know what the Government intends to do about getting back the million pound bonus paid to Two Fingers by his building society after it was bailed out.
It was at this stage that the familiar thud reverberated around the chamber. Joo Diligence, on the sauce again, about to be carried out.
Sure enough, the Taoiseach talked of how the issue would have to be thoroughly investigated.
There’s only so much people can put up with. At this stage, the Opposition is becoming sick and tired of the antics of Ms Diligence. How many times must the poor woman be carried out before the Government sees sense and starts acting decisively? The Fine Gael leader pointed out that the principal fact had been established beyond dispute – Two Fingers Fingleton was paid a million euro after the taxpayer saved his bacon.
What more is there to discover? He said his Government had the legal power to demand the return of the bonus. The Taoiseach talked about exploring all the options available. Furthermore, with the two “public interest” board members busy carrying out Joo Diligence, his Finance Minister “will ensure that he gets to the bottom of the issue.” This is a departure from traditional Fianna Fáil practice, which is to get to the top of every issue. Accordingly, where Two Fingers Fingleton is concerned, Minister Lenihan is not climbing every tree in the Two Fingers Building Society, rather, he is plumbing the depths in search of evidence.
Which appears to be in front of his nose. Going by what the Dáil is now hearing on a regular basis, there seems to have been a rottenness and rank hypocrisy underpinning the upper echelons of Irish business.
I see a retired shareholder threw an egg/eggs at the AIB chairman at today's AGM/EGM
Apparently he'd been wiped out by the banks share price fall.
Personally I have almost zero sympathy for people who invest all their money in a single equity or class of equities.
He's as greedy as the bankers he's protesting against.
Depends on who was advising him. I've heard a few stories like that - what were the bank investment advisors, advising?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I don't think that is fair. If you asked any one what the safest shares were 18 months ago they would have said banks. Sure we might have expected some sort of housing collapse but didn't hear any one predicting the banks would collapse so much.
Miriam Lords take on AGM season
I saw yesterday that INBS claimed the 27m pension fund for Fingers which was noted as employees was in fact a typo & should have been employee (singular).Glorious for Fingers, that is, who left with a pension pot so large it would scarcely fit at the end of a rainbow.
Last edited by pete; 13/05/2009 at 11:58 AM.
Plural highlighted. Even if someone is stupid enough to put all their eggs in one basket - and it is very stupid - they could at least diversify within that basket. It remains stupid though, and Rule 1 of investing. Diversity is the key to wise investing.
Perhaps Rule 1 should be amended to: "If you're a moron, don't invest." Rule 2 could be: "If you're a moron, and you invested, don't whine about it afterwards."
Basically its I want the rewards of capitalism but not the losses. Does he not realise that only works for the very top of the chain.
In Trap we trust
Not single equity investments for pensioners!
Anyone who wanted advice would be told to invest based on their risk appetite and time horizon. Broadly you reduce your equity holdings the closer you get to needing the money and reinvest in cash or near cash assets.
Are you saying that financial advisers were telling finacially unsophisticated people to reduce diversification and pile into bank shares?
Read the Financial Ombudsman's report - it's full of examples of terrible investment advice (although typically inappropriate products (with big commissions I'd expect) rather than recommendations to invest in individual shares):
http://www.financialombudsman.ie/new...s/pr.asp?ID=59
EDIT:PS agree with ORA's general point about lack of diversification, but I still have some sympathy for some people who were naive
Last edited by monutdfc; 13/05/2009 at 12:59 PM.
Really just wondering, because I'm surprised so many seem to have taken a punt on just bank shares. Someone must have been advising them?
All the cuffufal today would make you think of another group the Government is trying to appease with the NAMA rubbish, as opposed to other options that would hit shareholders...
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I disagree that someone must be advising them.
Nobody advised the ten of thousands of people who became mini-property speculators over the last 10 years. They saw friends doing it and read it in the papers and did it out of greed. The same for banks shares. Equities can never be high growth and high yielding over the long-run, yet that's what these people expected.
I know your social and political views consistently lead you to the conclusion that a small cadre of connected individuals are almost totally responsible for our ills, but again, I'd spread the blame net a lot wider.
there should be a law against anyone using free markets to feed this "greed".
In relation to the guy who lost all the money on bank shares. so what? he is a shareholder and is entitled to vent is anger at the way his company is being run at its agm.
Think he came across as a crackpot. Throwing eggs. One thing struck me yesterday. I'm sick of these people at these agms . They gambled they lost. welcome to the real world. We can’t cut old age medical cards, but we can close children’s wards in Crumlin. No blue rinse mark for the closed children’s wards.
I was asking a question not making a statement. I've never had an interest in investing in shares, and never had the money to need an investment advisor.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
His "piano wire" comment would raise serious questions about his political leanings!
He made the front page of the Sun
Anglo cost an extra €4bn first six months to the end of March. Just what did the Golden Circle have on FF, and who exactly are they? Why did Lenihan give the board indemnity when it was nationalised. Something feckin stinks about this - systemic importance me hole.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking30.htm
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Macy, I don't disagree with you. It should've been let fail. I've said that all along.
But the constant media references to "bailing out the developers" is infuriatingly inaccurate. The Government money is being pumped in to bail out the depositors (who at this stage are overwhelmingly individuals and SMEs, the interbank money is long gone). If Anglo was allowed to fail, it's the depositors that would lose. You'd actually increase the chance of the developers getting off unscathed.
On the Golden Circle, criminal charges HAVE to be coming. It's a clear case of share support and now the €300m has been written off these guys, along with Seanie, should be locked up. But given how long the DCC-Fyffes case took, I wouldn't hold my breath.
4 billion lose of 6 months is a staggering number. Not convinced that winding it up is even an option because of the state guarantee. Would need to see the numbers involved before committing to that.
I see the Director of Corporate Enforcement says he will be in a position to talk to the DPP later this year. He needs to get the finger out as it is in the National interest that any prosecutions are done as quickly as possible.
If Developers cannot pay their loans the bank needs to look at recovering the assets. Seems like some developers are willing to sit on their assets & wait for prices to turn around. AT least byb recovering the assets the prices would drop & maybe be sold.
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