Third level education no longer a fee

[OneRedArmy]

A couple of points more central to the original post:
1) Primary and secondary education can't self-fund through research
2) Primary and secondary education can hardly be described as free. There is a strong minority fee-paying structure and for those that are nominally "free" parents and teachers effectively fund a sizable part of the operating budget through donating time and money.
3) The idea that an argument could be made as equally for primary and secondary education as could for tertiary is, frankly, absurd. For one, it ignores the indisputable fact that different levels of education are not independent. Tertiary education requires completion of primary and secondary education. It also ignores the fact that a base level of education (we can dispute where that level is, but it doesn't change the point) is a public good.

[John83]

My last post has been criticised on several valid grounds. However, I did not intend to make a full and consistent argument with it, but rather to ridicule the argument I quoted.

A couple of points more central to the original post:
1) Primary and secondary education can't self-fund through research
2) Primary and secondary education can hardly be described as free. There is a strong minority fee-paying structure and for those that are nominally "free" parents and teachers effectively fund a sizable part of the operating budget through donating time and money.
3) The idea that an argument could be made as equally for primary and secondary education as could for tertiary is, frankly, absurd. For one, it ignores the indisputable fact that different levels of education are not independent. Tertiary education requires completion of primary and secondary education. It also ignores the fact that a base level of education (we can dispute where that level is, but it doesn't change the point) is a public good.

Interesting post.

1) Neither can universities.

• If you want research that pays for itself, you'll have to shut down the humanities and, well, everything except for the sciences, medicine and engineering. The point of university research is that it's not forced to be commerically motivated. Fundamental research is vitally important to technological progress, but it rarely brings in much money. The work the humanities researchers do is hardly financially viable, but it's valuable in other ways.
• Universities are already very research focussed. Making it even more so would hurt the amount of time lecturers can devote to teaching.
• The universities already do bring in funding from their research - anything that gets commercialised, they have a stake in. It offsets costs, but it doesn't pay for everything.

2) I'm not sure what point you're making here? No, primary and secondary education are not entirely free. They are heavily subsidised.

3) I never said it could be made as equally. In fact, I said, "I know there are some points, but they should be debated on. "

So, let's try that one. How about we start with this: Describe please what general good the public funding of the Leaving Certificate cycle does. Describe why it is deserving of public funding on the assumption that third level is not.

[NeilMcD]

Im guessing you live in Dublin with the Luas, the Dart, Dublin bus along with a host of private operators in which case a car is far from an essential. But if you live outside of Dublin you have none of these.If you live in a smaller city you only have access to a terrible bus service. If you live in the country side your on your own. So to a large % in the country a car is very essential.



The registration fee this year will be close to 2 grand alone and you have to pay for Rent, Bills, food, books etc etc. ( a room in a student apartment near UL is 80 euro a week !! add 20 to that for bills then another 50 for food etc just a very quick sum shows 40 weeks at 150 is 6 grand so thats 8 grand and we still havent paid the college fees if they come in at 3-5 grand then its well over 10 grand a year ) and thats the bare minimun.

I cycle for the reasons it is healthy and good for the environment and cheaper.