The Budget Thread

[pete]

(on a semi-related theme see the Govt. slipped decentralisation "deferred" out in the middle of the budget news)

Possibly the only topic that public & private sector will agree on as an absolute disaster.

Obviously we need a public sector to delivery services such as health & education but how did we survive before without all the quangos (estimated at 1000) like the consumer agency telling me how to insure my car?

When the Minister decided to call the new income tax increase a levy I doubt he predicted it would be called the Lenihan levy.

[cheifo]

What really needs to go hand in hand with a tough budget IMO is for the Gov to let us know what plans they have for the economy.
What is bing done to safeguard the Multinationals staying here?

What are we doing to attract inward investment?

Now that Manufacturing doesn't seem to have a future what sectors will we be relying on for exports and to provide employment?

In other words there does not seem to be a plan to turn the economy so we come out of recession?

[Billsthoughts]

What struck me was the measures to help the pubs. I mean how blatant are these lads?

[Dodge]

What struck me was the measures to help the pubs. I mean how blatant are these lads?

My favourite was the €500 increase on all alcohol licenses, except for public houses. Excise duty up on everythign except beer and spirits.

[mypost]

The Dáil is debating the Budget, which was announced by Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan yesterday.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen defended the move telling TDs that hard decisions had to be taken if further services were not to be cut

Before the budget debate resumed this morning Leader's Questions was dominated by the measures announced yesterday.

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny described the Budget as 'one of the most swingeing and savage' in years.

He said every single person in the country will have to pay for the Government's mistakes.

Labour leader Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach which of the '39 taxes and charges' he was most embarrassed by.

The Taoiseach said that if Labour contended that there should be no tax cuts then it would have to cut spending by €5.5bn.

There were also angry exchanges about the withdrawal of the medical card for people over 70 years of age.

The Taoiseach has also told the Dáil that in the coming weeks he will announce details of public sector reform that will include a 'rigorous appraisal of staffing levels'.

With ministers roaring their support Mr Cowen acknowledged that people would be worse off, regretted that his Government had to make hard decisions, but insisted that if they had not other services would ultimately have to be cut.

Last night, a late night sitting saw the Government comfortably win a series of votes on measures including an income levy, a VAT increase, and higher excise duty on petrol, cigarettes and wine.

Increases on cigarettes, wine and petrol, came into force immediately.

The VAT increase applies from December, while the income levy and motor tax increases will operate from the start of next year.

[Billsthoughts]

www.irishtimes.com carrys piece on Lenihans stint on PK show this morning. worth reading.
BL - tough decisions were needed due to current circumstances.
PK - its not like the gov arrived from mars. you are responsible for this.
BL - eh stop being so negative..

[brendy_éire]

Personally, I'm a bit disgusted with the airport tax. We're effectively being punished for living on an island. It's all well and good taxing flights between France and Germany or even Britain and Belgium, for example, but when we went to go anywhere on the continent (except if you live on the south coast and want to go to France), flying is really the only option.
It's not like we can hop on a train to Paris or Frankfurt. If we were getting a boat it would take days.
Also, the Govt subsidises flights from Dublin to various regional airports, but then charges us €2 extra actually use the service. Genius. And with this extra €2 they'll get from these flights, they're reducing funding for regional airports by €2 million.

And another thing. Lenihan was onto the media whinging about southerners shopping in the north because it's cheaper. Yet, despite the fact that the entire population of Derry City and every other town/village within 20/30 minutes or more of the border buy their petrol/diesel in the south, he somehow came up with the idea of sticking an extra 8c on fuel duty. That effectively means that an average saving from the northern motorist buying their petrol in the south, filling up their tank, is now £3.50 (€4.40). Somehow I don't think that'll be enough of a saving to entice people to drive a bit further to get their fuel. Cue dozens of petrol station closures in Donegal, Leitrim, Monaghan, Cavan and Louth, with hundreds of jobs lost, aswell as the duty gained from fuel bought by northern motorists. Maybe I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Not that I'm against increasing the cost of motoring (and there are other ways to do that), but if you're going whinge about prices in the north being cheaper, don't make the one the thing that is cheaper in the south effectively the same price as it is in the north. Idiot.
There's currently 3 petrol stations left in Derry (the rest closed over 10 years ago), and their business is close to nil. I'll keep an eye out for more opening in the near future.

[Billsthoughts]

what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?

[jmurphyc]

what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?

Surely the extra 8 cents on petrol is partly a disincentive.

[Magicme]

What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.

As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.

[John83]

what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?

The Times just says "tax incentives". Nothing else seems to go into any more detail. Maybe this is just a spin on the petrol hike!

[Dodge]

what were the measures brought in to encourage people to cycle to work?

Cycle to work scheme
From 1 January 2009, the provision of bicycles and associated safety equipment by employers to employees who agree to use the bicycles to cycle to work will be treated as a tax exempt benefit-in-kind. The exemption may only apply once in any five year period in respect of any employee. There will be a limit on the value of such purchases of €1,000 for each employee. The scheme may also be implemented via salary sacrifice arrangements, whereby an employee agrees to forego part of his/her salary to cover the costs associated with the purchase of the bicycle and associated safety equipment. Where such salary sacrifice arrangements are implemented, they must be completed over a maximum period of twelve months.

The estimated cost of this scheme is €0.2 million in 2009 and €0.4 million in a full year.


http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html

[jmurphyc]

What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.

As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.

I didn't realise that! That really is shocking.

Perhaps its my personal bias as I am a smoker myself, but (and perhaps I'll be slated for generalising) the 50 cent extra on cigarettes is disgraceful too. I know that they've done this in previous years and that it is an attempt to stop young people from smoking, but I would think that poorer people generally smoke more, making the extra 50 cents a tax on the poor. If you don't have much money 8.05 is a LOT of money to be spending on cigarettes each day. I just don't know how the vulnerable in society are supposed to cope with the pressures that this budget has brought.

[Billsthoughts]

As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.

Mmmm. For me personaly the 1 per cent levy is not going to be the end of the world and in tough times everyone has to take a hit. The airport tax as well is not that much considering the amount of times I will ever be flying out in a year. I appreciate that for people with families its different story tho.

My concern would be that they will just waste the extra revenue. They p*ssed away billions in the good times. Tax increases should be done in conjunction with reforms to combat waste and inefficiency. I dont really see them.

The Times just says "tax incentives". Nothing else seems to go into any more detail. Maybe this is just a spin on the petrol hike!

I was wondering how they would prove you were actually cycling to work? Maybe cheaper bikes and actual bike lanes that are not on the roads so as your life is not in danger might help.

[John83]

What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.

As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.

The levy is the most regressive idea I've ever seen implemented by a minister for finance. If you live on the breadline, you still pay it. It's either a retarded attempt at PR by raising income tax without increasing the rates or a cynical decision to tax the poorest people in the country. I've been struggling to decide which is more likely from a FF government.

[OneRedArmy]

Not only does it bring in the 1/3 of the working population that don't currently pay tax (which is wrong, wrong, wrong), its also levied on absolute gross income, before any deductions, therefore its effective rate is significantly higher than a corresponding increase in the income tax rates would be.

Sneaky.

[Dodge]

Don't forget that the "levy" is taken on gross wages (so no tax credits etc apply) so it effects even those not surrently being taxed

EDIT; ORA got there before me

[anto1208]

What got me about the airport tax is how they looked after their rich mates again by not making it apply to planes with under 20 seats. Stupid stupid stupid.

As a struggling single mum who barely scrapes through, were am I gonna get the €300 levy I will be paying a year? I know its not a lot but may be the difference between heating my house for a few weeks or not. Will have to do the cavan man stunt and show my kids Santa's grave.

are you sure that's right ?

300 euro means you are earning 30 grand a year if you have say 2 kids you ll get 5 or 6 grand extra for them . i find it hard to imagine someone can class themselves as struggling on 36 grand a year. if your struggling then im screwed coz i dont earn anywhere near that much.

[dahamsta]

I don't mind paying extra tax*, however I do mind paying it to economic buffoons that weren't able to spend money wisely when they had it coming out their ears. It needs to stop. These guys need to be hunted out of government now. Not in 3 years when they'll be firing goodies at the morons that voted them back in the last time, but right now this minute. With shotguns, preferably. I'll meet you at Dail Eireann.

adam


* Don't get me wrong, it'll be tough, but I do think we all need to pay our way if we can.

[Dodge]

are you sure that's right ?

300 euro means you are earning 30 grand a year if you have say 2 kids you ll get 5 or 6 grand extra for them . i find it hard to imagine someone can class themselves as struggling on 36 grand a year. if your struggling then im screwed coz i dont earn anywhere near that much.

Yeah, and the kids don't eat, go to school or wear any clothes. And where are you getting 5 or 6 grand extra for the kids?

Shocking lack of real world experience exposed there anto...