Hmm, the same player (in that position) who's been responsible for around half the goals conceded by Ireland in the last 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Like said previously, Ferguson or even Ian Harte could do better.
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Hmm, the same player (in that position) who's been responsible for around half the goals conceded by Ireland in the last 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Like said previously, Ferguson or even Ian Harte could do better.
Around half? Fine - go ahead and breakdown how Kilbane's been solely responsible for 10 goals in the last two years. I even did some of the work for you and narrowed it down to just goals conceded in games he's played in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
On the topic at hand, I'm sure Harte or Ferguson will be options but my view is throwing around words like liability is just lazy.
Kilbane has been responsible for every goal Ireland have ever conceded. Wait, no, that sounds dangerously like wild hyperbole.
Wild hyperbole - a lot more dangerous than the domesticated hyperbole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Kevin Kilbane is solely responsible for every goal conceded by every team throughout history in all sports, real or imaginary, in perpetuity throughout the universe in all known, and unknown, dimensionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
now, that's hyperbole
I'm bored. I'll do it. Competitive goals conceded in the last two years...
Bulgaria (a) - 1-1. Kilbane definitely at fault. Let a long ball go over his head.
Cyprus (a) - 2-1. Ball came in from O'Shea's side. Kilbane probably could have got tighter to the goalscorer, but it wasn't his man. Harsh to blame Kilbane.
Italy (h) - 2-2. Goals came from a corner, and a slip from St. Ledger. Was Kilbane supposed to be marking Camoranesi for the corner?
France (h) - 0-1. Huge deflection from a speculative shot when Ireland were otherwise defending solidly. Kilbane blameless.
France (a) - 1-1. McShane lost his man. Kilbane blameless.
Andorra (h) - 3-1. Freak volley. Possibly O'Shea's fault. Kilbane blameless.
Russia (h) - 2-3. Whelan mostly at fault for the first. Second came from our left, McGeady was more at fault - didn't track the full back who got the cross in. The goalscorer for the third - the holding midfielder - should have been closed down by the midfield. Harsh to single out Kilbane for that horror show.
Slovakia (a) 1-1. Header, corner. Kilbane blameless.
Macedonia (h) 2-1. A clearly unfit Dunne got turned easily. Kilbane blameless.
The only goal Kilbane was obviously at fault for was Bulgaria away. O'Shea's been directly responsible for more, as has Whelan. Our general defending from set-pieces and our closing down in midfield has been responsible for more goals conceded than any one individual.
I'd go along with that, no team on their own merits, deserved to score a goal against us :)
:) Good point geysir! However, it is worrying that we've conceded in all but three competitive games under Trap. For a game plan that's based on solidity and grinding out wins, we're making too many mistakes and conceding soft goals. I do agree that we need a more convincing left-back than a converted midfielder who is winding down his career, but replacing Kilbane wouldn't simply eliminate this problem. Defensive mistakes are coming from all of the back four.
Good analysis, the one other goal that I would apportion blame to KK, that is probably just outside the two year timeframe, is the one conceded in the home game with Bulgaria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
Nothing annoys me more than the ignorant "Kilbane ya donkey" chant from some idiot sitting in front of you at an Ireland game.
I challenge anyone to name a player that has been more committed to the Irish cause over the last 15 years. Whilst he may not have been the most gifted player to play for Ireland over that period, his workrate, dedication and unwillingness to give up surpass any player in that era. I know its just a mere aside, but it highlights the point; next time we play watch how many players sing the national anthem and watch English born KK belts out the lyrics with gusto. No one takes more pride in wearing the green jersey than him. Also by all accounts apparently he is an influential leader in the dressing room.
KK will always be up there with Denis Irwin and Steve Staunton for me as the most consumate professionals who wore the green jersey.
Also is I have heard this rumour do the rounds and was wondering could anyone verify it? KK was called up to England U-15 trials and went along wearing an Ireland jersey. He was promptly sent home. What a man!
Yes, that story's true. And appreciate his efforts when he's played.
However, regardless of any 'analysis' on here, it doesn't mean that's he's not mediocre at best in that position. Hence the SF suggestion.
KK's a liability in every game he plays there for Ireland.
With Shane Ferguson, Greg Cunningham and Marc Tierney coming through at left back, Kilbane's time should be up.
Did KK say that himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
By 'analysis', I hope you're referring to the posts where your ridiculous hyperbole was 'totally sunk'...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Not sure what you mean by SF either but, regardless, being mediocre (arguable) does not make him a liability. I think Kilbane's failings have been overstated. As SF pointed out, he's been as culpable as anyone else but has found himself on the end of a huge amount of criticism. Criticism on him should focus on his inability to support the left-winger and occasional (that's once in a while, not half the time he's on the pitch) lapses in concentration. And there haven't been many of those recently...
Kilbane's done fairly well at left-back on many occasions, but it's been overshadowed by a couple of poor mistakes that people like to bang on about as if they happen in every game.
Arn't you getting ahead of yourself? Ferguson's an NI player and Cunningham's crocked. Don't know much about Tierney, is he the Norwich player and does he qualify? Again though, these guys arn't exactly coming into contention next month. And that post could've been written last month with Ciaran Clark in mind but Kilbane ended up in credit over him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
All this isn't to say I'm not against someone emerging, there are options. I'm still keen to see what O'Halloran will do, hope he goes on the US tour.
I believed Kilbane confirmed that himself in an issue of YBIG. Sam Allardyce pressured him to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by French Toasht
Yes I am, which is why I highlighted both Ferguson & Tierney. Is the US Tour definitely going ahead?Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Your right. The quote is on page 6. http://www.ybig.ie/uploads/file/YBIG_iSSUE_19_web.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by theworm2345
Also another rumour I've heard is that when we played Brazil in the 0-0 draw back in 2004, that at the final whistle apparently Ronaldo ran half the pitch to swap jerseys with Kev Kilbane. Anyone able to verify that?
Theres only Zinedine Kilbane!
OK, good to see people are sticking their head in the sand on this one. Been going to football long enough, to spot a 'square peg in a round hole'.
Apart from anything else, he's playing out of position compared to where he's been playing for Huddersfield, where he did very well in the game I saw recently. I don't care if he has a 1000 caps, he's no left-back.
Apart from anything else, he's one-footed and has no pace. Fundamental failings at this level, in that position.
And that's where he gets shown up in every international he plays.
Hence my suggestion re.Shane Ferguson. He might be young, but at least he's playing in the PL. Which KK won't be gracing again....
Goalposting moving like a champ - think we'd all agree on the 'square peg' even though you're somehow convinced otherwise...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Mostly fair enough, some arguable...talking of which...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
When was he shown up against Slovakia? Or France home and away? Or Macedonia? If you're talking about a few errors, which player in the team has committed no errors? Wildly OTT comment - again. Anyone can sling out a few of those. For instance, I could say ArdeeBhoy is the biggest supporting of Irish partition since Edward Carson but it doesn't mean much if I don't back it up with anything except vaguely muttering something about an erroneous vote two years ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Has Ferguson even started a Prem game yet? And what part of his game makes you think he could immediately step in for a guy who has over 100 caps and can still compete, even in a more limited capacity, at that level?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Fair nuff. Thought they were still planning on it, I hope it happens think it would be a far more useful exercise than in the Staunton era. Could be Ferguson's first call-up too if he declares in time...Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
What are you, his agent??
:rolleyes:
If I was I'd probably agree with you - seriously diminishing 10% returns.
no he's not, see the post above from Supreme FeetQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Ciaran Clark is playing far more regularly than Ferguson, and I still wouldn't play him ahead of Kilbane, given his performance against Uruguay which came 3 days after Kilbane was far better against MacedoniaQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Everything you say about Kevin is true, French Toast. And for that matter I would like to see him up there on day as an assistant manager in the Irish team or something of that nature. He clearly is devoted to the cause more than many others who wore the green. I wish him all the best for the future as I'm sure most Irish fans do. But he is just not up to it anymore and it's laziness on the part of the manager that he keeps picking him. I also agree with the poster who said that there is plenty of blame to go around the back four for the goals we concede. But let's start fixing the problems rather than just turning a blind eye every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by French Toasht
Yes but he's needed more in the centre. Be it defence or midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
One game v.Uruguay proves nothing, though given he regularly plays in the EPL clearly proves he's better than KK who doesn't even play left-back any more, two divisions lower....
Personally I'd go with Ian Harte for the remainder of this campaign, with Ferguson (or one of the other youngsters mentioned) as a longer-term replacement.
Though more important, is Trap's intransigence, hinted by mark above. One guarantee is we won't qualify for any Finals with people of the quality of KK playing international football for Ireland. And yes, we all know the rest of the squad are fallible....
To me there's only one person really putting his hand up to take Killer's place and that's Harte. And surely given his age, time away and previous limitations, we can all understand why he's not a slam dunk (though I would certainly be happy to see him called up).
Thing is way though way people talk about KK, and Trap, it's like we have a half a dozen top class left backs queuing up to play. We don't. Delaney was the solution, then Cunningham, then Clark - now it's Ferguson or whoever. For me it's about the next big game against Macedonia and Kilbane's rightly in line to stay in the team. That could change soon and definitely should change in the medium term, but until then it's worth recognising that KK has not be playing nearly as bad as has been suggested.
I will concede that Zinedine's best performances for us were on the left wing, in fact he was that good, that Brian Kerr used to choose him in that position over Chelsea's Damian Duff at the time, deciding to put Duffer up front with Robbie, in order to accomodate KK in the team. And I do believe that this qualification campaign will be his last as an automatic starter.
But like several posters have stated, we are at a pivotal stage in this qualification campaign and for the next competitive match against Macedonia (the graveyard of Irish football) it's simply not the time for experimentation. I would feel far more at ease having KK in there as opposed to an untested rookie. By all means try out future alternatives to the left back position in the NI and Scotland games and the numerous friendlies we will have at the end of the campaign (hopefully in preparation for the Euros) but not in matches of the importance of Macedonia/Slovakia/Russia.
I have always found KK has been scapegoated for all our failings throughout the years and it genuinely has baffled me that the player that seems to get singled out for criticism more than any other is the player who has given more to the green jersey than any other.
I'd play O'Shea in the middle before Clark, remember Dunne + O'Shea was Trapattoni's starting centre half partnership until St Ledger came into the pictureQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
If he can't cut it in a friendly, he doesn't deserve to be given a chance in a competitive game. I think Clark will start at least one of the Carling Cup games, but if he doesn't improve on the showing against Uruguay then he won't play against Macedonia.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Clark isn't playing regularly, he hasn't started a game for Villa in nearly two months, his only appearance since then was when came off the bench in the game against West Brom last SaturdayQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Harte's playing at centre half for Reading. Personally I think Cunningham is the long term replacement at left full.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I dealt with Trappatoni's so called intransigence/stubbornness more than 18 months ago: http://foot.ie/threads/124532-Trapat...xperimentationQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
We have already qualified for a finals with Kilbane in the side:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Not to mention Kilbane's role in Paris, even playing a large role in the goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Kilbane, despite his critics, remains our number one option in this area. The other options remain under the heading of emerging and hopefully are used soon on tour - O' Halloran, Clark, Cunningham and the one I am highlighting as another option - Chris McCann. Another alternative needs to emerge soon as Kilbane is getting older and is playing League One.
Except as we all know, O'Shea is even more versatile than Clark, as in he can play anywhere in the back four....Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Maybe he could be the compromise?
He may well have done, but it's mainly been at left-full.Quote:
Harte's playing at centre half for Reading. Personally I think Cunningham is the long term replacement at left full.
It's hardly news then. But it's irritating it still prevails.Quote:
I dealt with Trappatoni's so called intransigence/stubbornness more than 18 months ago: http://foot.ie/threads/124532-Trapat...xperimentation
Though take the point Trap is unlikely to make any drastic changes. But it's almost enough to 'hope' one or two people get crocked in the play-offs to force his hand.
Like about a decade ago. And Harte was even more clearly the better option then at left-back!!!Quote:
We have already qualified for a finals with Kilbane in the side
:rolleyes:
And am referring, er, to the near future, which I suspect you knew anyway.
Worm, presumably you don't recall, what happened next....
Try as I may to block it out, I do recall. But to blame Kilbane for that would just be daft. He was ever-present (for better of for worse) throughout that campaign which saw us reach the doorstep of South Africa. It wasn't his poor finishing or his handball (or his man) who slammed that door shut. I don't see how any other left back playing throughout that campaign, Irish or otherwise, would have seen us through either.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Regarding your decade ago comment, you did say any Finals
Gareth Bale would have won us the World Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by theworm2345
Beacuse he's left footed? I don't see him as anything other than a central midfielder myself, but would be delighted to be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Delaney should be considered as a stop gap IMHO. Clark looked very vulnerable against Uruguay. Delaney steadied things.
Tets, are you sure Harte is playing CB at Reading? I think he is worth a look in May.
Harte's been playing left back for Reading any time I've seen him. I think he started in the centre and was shifted out wide due to an injury.
No, because McCann is mobile, tall and strong in a tackle. Please keep in mind that our current no. 1 in this position - Killer is in fact a midfielder!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Friend of mine tried t convince me once that Stephen Quinn should be given a chance at left full, simply because he's left footed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
sorry, no, I'm wrong. According to football-lineups.com - http://www.football-lineups.com/footballer/5915/ - it was Carlisle at the start of the season where he was playing at centre half and has only played for Reading at left fullQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...296001006.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by irishtimes
Another one so. Would like to see Kenny back in the squad though.
Republic of Ireland chief scout Don Givens has also confirmed former United captain and Irish legend Mick Martin had held talks with Ferguson.
Ferguson told the Chronicle: “I cannot really say much about it.
“I am just focusing on my club football at the minute, and whatever happens with internationals is a bonus.
“If I keep doing well for Newcastle, the rest will take care of itself.”
From http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newca...#ixzz1LNlxfFGG