Trapattonti's lack of experimentation

**tetsujin1979** · 17/09/2009, 3:32 PM

One of the criticisms levelled against Trapattoni over the course of his reign is the lack of experimentation in the side. I've always felt this was slightly unfair, in part because of the time he's been in charge, and also the number of players actually available to him.
So I've done some investigation on this, turns out he's actually awarded nearly as many new caps in a little over a year than Brian Kerr did in his entire reign!
I've left the new caps awarded by Mick out of the equation because he was in charge for a significantly longer than time than any of the managers since him, so obviously he's given far more debuts.
Here's my findings:

Code:

Manager    Players                  First Cap  Home Team Result AwayTeam
Giovanni   Darren O'Dea     08 September 2009    Ireland   1-0  South Africa
Trapattoni Eddie Nolan            29 May 2009    Ireland   1-1  Nigeria
           Leon Best              29 May 2009    Ireland   1-1  Nigeria
           Kieren Westwood        29 May 2009    Ireland   1-1  Nigeria
           Sean St Ledger         29 May 2009    Ireland   1-1  Nigeria
           Liam Lawrence          29 May 2009    Ireland   1-1  Nigeria
           Kevin Foley            29 May 2009    Ireland   1-1  Nigeria
           Noel Hunt         19 November 2008    Ireland   2-3  Poland
           Keith Andrews     19 November 2008    Ireland   2-3  Poland
           Caleb Folan        15 October 2008    Ireland   1-0  Cyprus
           Wesley Hoolahan        29 May 2008    Ireland   1-0  Colombia
           Glenn Whelan           24 May 2008    Ireland   1-1  Serbia
           Damien Delaney         24 May 2008    Ireland   1-1  Serbia
Total new caps: 13
    
Steve      Darron Gibson       22 August 2007    Denmark   0-4  Ireland
Staunton   Peter Murphy           26 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Bolivia
           Joe Lapira             23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Joe Gamble             23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Andy Keogh             23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Alan Bennett           23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Stephen O'Halloran     23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Daryl Murphy           23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Alex Bruce             23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Colin Doyle            23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Darren Potter          23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Joe O'Cearuill         23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Stephen Gleeson        23 May 2007    Ireland   1-1  Ecuador
           Anthony Stokes    07 February 2007 San Marino   1-2  Ireland
           Stephen Hunt      07 February 2007 San Marino   1-2  Ireland
           Shane Long        07 February 2007 San Marino   1-2  Ireland
           Paul Mc Shane      11 October 2006    Ireland   1-1  Czech Republic
           Alan O'Brien        16 August 2006    Ireland   0-4  Holland
           Stephen Kelly          24 May 2006    Ireland   0-1  Chile
           Wayne Henderson      01 March 2006    Ireland   3-0  Sweden
           Joey O'Brien         01 March 2006    Ireland   3-0  Sweden
           Kevin Doyle          01 March 2006    Ireland   3-0  Sweden
           Stephen Ireland      01 March 2006    Ireland   3-0  Sweden
Total new caps: 23

Brian      Stephen Elliott   16 November 2004    Ireland   1-0  Croatia
Kerr       Jonathan Macken     18 August 2004    Ireland   1-1  Bulgaria
           Michael Doyle         05 June 2004    Holland   0-1  Ireland
           Aidan McGeady         02 June 2004    Jamaica   0-1  Ireland
           Clive Clarke           29 May 2004    Nigeria   3-0  Ireland
           Martin Rowlands        27 May 2004    Ireland   1-0  Romania
           Jonathan Douglas     28 April 2004     Poland   0-0  Ireland
           Jason Byrne          28 April 2004     Poland   0-0  Ireland
           Paddy Kenny          31 March 2004    Ireland   2-1  Czech Republic
           Liam Miller          31 March 2004    Ireland   2-1  Czech Republic
           Andy Reid         18 November 2003    Ireland   3-0  Canada
           John Thompson     18 November 2003    Ireland   3-0  Canada
           Joe Murphy       09 September 2003    Ireland   2-2  Turkey
           Alan Quinn           30 April 2003    Ireland   1-0  Norway
           Alan Lee             30 April 2003    Ireland   1-0  Norway
Total new caps: 15

While this isn't going to end the debate, I'd hope it goes some way towards proving he's not as inflexible as previously assumed
I'd also argue that more of the players awarded by Trapattoni have gone on to become mainstays in the squad, than either of his immediate predecessors.

PS feel free to check the facts, I'm not 100%

**gustavo** · 17/09/2009, 3:35 PM

Kerr was also noted for his lack of awarding new caps though AFAIR

**geysir** · 17/09/2009, 4:00 PM

On a competitive debut basis
Kerr : Elliot Miller A. Reid
Stan : Doyle, Hunt, Kelly, J OBrien, Ireland, McShane and McGeady
Trap : Gibson, Best, St Ledger, N. Hunt, Andrews, Whelan and Folan

Trap has experimented within the rigid system.
It is the rigidity of the system that it open to debate.

**Wolfie** · 17/09/2009, 4:10 PM

Lets not forget how bad a shape we were in before Trapp took over.

A rigid system was required to shore up the ship and to make us remotely competitive again.

Many of us here highlighted how many of the team didn't know their role or what was expected of them under Staunton.

We're creatively limited - but we're organised, competitive and relatively difficult to break down.

Its not ideal - but its a hell of an improvement.

**Acornvilla** · 17/09/2009, 4:39 PM

just be glad your not from san marino

**paul_oshea** · 17/09/2009, 4:51 PM

well said wolfie, and if we qualify i hope the friendles expand the boundaries of that system, increasing the diamater of those boundaries everytime. If not and Trap stays on then I hope 2 years of being competitive and organised will allow for us to be more creative and not stuck to the one rigid system.

**NeilMcD** · 17/09/2009, 5:08 PM

Why cant we be Spain, why the hell did Trap not turn us into Spain, I want the money back. Sack him now.

**The Legend** · 17/09/2009, 5:51 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Why cant we be Spain, why the hell did Trap not turn us into Spain, I want the money back. Sack him now.

You're right, Paddy O' Torres and Mick Fabregas would have played under Stan!

**geysir** · 17/09/2009, 6:27 PM

Are all things so cut and dried?
The criticism that Tets answered has already been examined in another thread after the Cyprus game. Here he maps out definitively that Trap has experimented.

Is there no room for debate without being sarcastic that any question means Trap is cráp?

Is there reasonable confidence that we have all the players we need to play the game to get the results in the upcoming games, especially considering how play off games can go?

**briancool21** · 17/09/2009, 7:44 PM

i think the main problem is ireland play as dull as **** but i'd rather this than playing attractive football and being smashed by cyprus

**mypost** · 17/09/2009, 8:10 PM

If we won 5-0 in Cyprus, there'd be "pundits" whinging why we didn't win 6.

Trap has turned a bunch of Ragball Rovers into World Cup contention in just over 18 months. So what if it's "turgid", "rigid", and hard on the eyes? We haven't qualified for anything since 2002, playing so-called "better" football.

Just be grateful that we are where we are, and not in Bulgaria's position.

**tricky_colour** · 17/09/2009, 8:47 PM

To play attractive football you have to take risks, and that means you usually end up on the losing side unless you have exceptional players. Boring but safe usually beats attractive and and risky.

**Stuttgart88** · 17/09/2009, 9:12 PM

I think it's great to see a commonsense consensus here. It ain't pretty but it's pretty effective. That'll do for me after the last few years.

**Crosby87** · 17/09/2009, 11:11 PM

How much experimenting can he do? There is so much pressure on every game. And I am starting to see friendlys do not mean anything on any level especially evaluation.

But anyway I hear in the 60s Trap lived in Berkeley and did quite a bit of experimenting. Maybe that was enough.

**SkStu** · 18/09/2009, 4:12 AM

theres a difference though if you ask me. You have to really look into the depth of talent that was available at each stage. About 10 or more players in Stans list should never have been even contemplated for the squad, let alone a cap. Kerr, as well as getting Roy Keane back, had a bit more talent to choose from previously but he also had a healthy chunk of experienced pro's and talent already there.

Arguably the pool of talent is wider for Trappatoni and i feel he hasnt looked seriously at enough of it. This is my qualm with Trappatoni. He hasnt always debuted the best players we have and took too long to call up a couple of players. Also he has been too quick to drop a decent player who loved playing for his country for, lets be honest, a minor incident.

I admire the stability and togetherness that he has brought to the team and it is great to feel the buzz of possible qualification in the air again but, i just dont like watching his team and the way it plays.

I dont think its unreasonable to question his decisions and selections, it provokes good debate. I dont want him sacked (you cant argue with the state of Group 8) its not an agenda or vendetta, people have just got to get a little less sensitive about the questions that are asked.

**jbyrne** · 18/09/2009, 7:24 AM

Originally Posted by briancool21

i think the main problem is ireland play as dull as **** but i'd rather this than playing attractive football and being smashed by cyprus

not always. the match in bari, half the match away to bulgaria, away to georgia and montenegro were all occasions were we played decent football

**dr_peepee** · 18/09/2009, 7:46 AM

The stats don't show Trapp not knowing Delap was Irish last year. Or his lack of a presence at club football (until recently enough and I'd say that was down to pressure).

The problem is Trapps rigid windows of oppertunity for me.

Cappello has the balance of continuity and scanning just right I think.

**Acornvilla** · 18/09/2009, 7:57 AM

well hore capello so!

**RogerMilla** · 18/09/2009, 8:06 AM

Originally Posted by briancool21

i think the main problem is ireland play as dull as **** but i'd rather this than playing attractive football and being smashed by cyprus

or not playing attractive football and being smashed by cyprus

**RogerMilla** · 18/09/2009, 8:11 AM

Originally Posted by SkStu

Also he has been too quick to drop a decent player who loved playing for his country for, lets be honest, a minor incident..

i actually think this is a cultural thing , we see it as a minor incident as might alex ferguson( who came to get roy keane out of jail!) stephen kenny or even jack o'connor but to trap a fella not heading to bed and allegedly being abusive when he is repeatedly told to might be just far too unprofessional for him to want to have to deal with going forward.. and as i have said before. it sent a message.. reids career sleeps with the fishes..