Oui, c'est l'entente cordiale ;)
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Oui, c'est l'entente cordiale ;)
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:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
classy
There is - that's the long and the short of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo
Northern Ireland fans do not wish to see our International team disappear. Simple as that.
Fair enough and I respect that wish completely. There was nothing wrong with debating it though - the outcome of that debate being that we all accept that a proposed merging of both associations would not work/be accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Not Brazil is right Scooby, the vast majority of Northern Ireland fans would be against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
It is important, and only obvious, to note though that Northern Ireland fans are not in any way reflective of Northern Ireland as a whole. Indeed, I would estimate that the proportion of the Northern Ireland population who would class themselves as fans of 'Norn Iron' would be less than 50%. Obviously, the vast majority of the Nationaist population naturally support ROI, while a small minority of the Unionist population, (who, one would expect to gravitate towards the NI team), support England.
I'm not sure if many on foot.ie knew that last bit!
Ok, so any chance of changing your flag, anthem and ultimate mindset of unionist politicians who don't see themselves as 'Irish' ? Which are all entirely :rolleyes: British and imposed on the native Irish populace!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
And note no-one has put up a credible view, not it exists in reality, about how the wider unionist population suddenly becomes 'Irish'....have they run out of postage stamps then?
;)
And all these people who suddenly 'love' Henry, based on their own narrow bigotry, are also claiming to be 'Irish' ! :rolleyes:
Why? No right-thinking Irish person would do such a thing......
I was at an IFA Awards Dinner in the City Hall, Belfast last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
Jimmy Jones was there to pick up a "Legend" Award, and it was great to see him. Old and frail, but still with a story or two to tell. What a goalscoring record he had.
An emotional Jimmy Jones, commented, “I had a fantastic night and it meant a great deal to me and my family to receive a surprise award”.
The Belfast Celtic Historical Society had a table at the event.
Got any evidence for the strength of the relative supports?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
I think your research might be a bit wee faulty there, Fly. You seem to be downplaying those who support two or more teams, enjoy the game without favoring anyone in particular, or basically aren't interested in a bunch of crybabies whining about losing a bad refereeing decision.Quote:
Obviously, the vast majority of the Nationaist population naturally support ROI
Aye, bloody gloryhunters. But don't worry, the new Mrs Lampard will make sure her bloke doesn't score for England.Quote:
while a small minority of the Unionist population, (who, one would expect to gravitate towards the NI team), support England
Don't be daft, every football-supporting kid on the island knows that most fans support British club teams- and a minority (as you mention) the big neighbor that's most likely to win internationally.Quote:
I'm not sure if many on foot.ie knew that last bit!
My National Flag is the Union Flag (it even has a St Patrick's Cross in it;) ), and my National Anthem is God Save The Queen.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
No apology for that, whatsoever.
No, I won't be changing that.
I would be happy for a new "sporting" anthem to be employed at Northern Ireland games though.
I will not be denouncing my "Irishness", nor will I ever be conceding to your myopic view of what "Irishness" constitutes.
[QUOTE=Gather round;1280315] basically aren't interested in a bunch of crybabies whining about losing a bad refereeing decision.
GR, get off your high horse. It'll be a very long time before you and the rest of NI supporters will be close enough to a WC to feel such crushing disappointment after having a totally deserved ticket to the finals snatched away like that. When NI come close to achieving what Ireland did on Wednesday night then you can pontificate to us. Until then, toddle on back to Our Wee Country/mindset.
Hmm. Part 1 contradicts Part 2, FFS! Though at least you accept some middle ground!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
And you seem to think I'm somehow defining 'Irishness';no real Irish person, even the worst kind of Sun-reading 'west Brit' would ever accept a tribute to some detached member of the German aristocracy as their anthem....hardly 'my' myopia.
Just a well-established view that you do or, in your case, dont subscribe to!
Read-up on definitions of Irishness;they don't and by their definition, aren't ever going to include that tune or colour scheme. ;)
:rolleyes: Are you for real? Definitions of irishness?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
They are born on the island of Ireland therefore they are as Irish as anyone, regardless of your 'definition' of Irishness.
Your President speaks a lot of sense on the issue - backwoodsmen like our friend from Ardee should wake up.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Interesting piece here - sorry if it veers away from the football, but it will challenge the myopic mindset of some here.
It is written by a former political spokesman for the Ulster Defence Association (UDA).
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...337390922.html
Fair enough NB. I for one would not expect you to change it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Also, the Union Jack does indeed have the St. Patrick's Cross in it. However, it was not put there out of benevolence but through empire-building and conquest.
Indeed NB, not one should subscribe to any myopic view of what constitutes Irishness. However, a person from Ireland who holds a Unionist position or Unionist views/beliefs is less Irish than someone who does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
I totally disagree...but this is neither the time or the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
I'm not "second class" Irish.
Interesting piece NB but i wonder, and i'm just being the devil's advocate here, is the notion of dual identity not more likely to be adopted by solely the unionist population more so than the nationalists who i would imagine would describe themselves as 'purely Irish'? I am not trying to get a rise out of anyone here, merely genuinely interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
How has this gone on for seven pages?!
Are you for real also? Ask the average unionist politician and they won't be emphasisng the 'I'-word! Need to come out of whatever Indo-like bubble yer inhabiting.....Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
However, to NB. Interesting piece;which is as much about interpetation as facts.
Accepting that alone, If you want to be considered 'Irish', the unionists have to lose some of their many British symbols and whilst you may be willing to do this, suspect the majority don't or won't. And moderating your tone about flags and anthems if you want to be taken seriously as being 'Irish'. Which ultimately won't happen.
So it's not a question of 'backwoods', but plenty of engrained views on both sides.....
Totally deserved? You went into the game needing to either a) score at least two goals or b) win the lottery of a shoot-out. You couldn't manage the first- and Gallas's goal didn't actually add to the target, 2-1 would have been as good as 2-0- and no-one knows what would have happened during penalties. So get a sense of perspective, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo
When you stop stirring it- over and over again on this thread alone- I'll gracefully dismount and stop pontificating (not that I'd started, but I realise you may be a bit tired and emotional). See you at the Euro 2012 draw for more analysis.
Amazing. Plenty of competition on the thread, but that takes the prize for sectarian halfwitted comment of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
There are a lot of stirrers and wind-ups about...Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
Why do you keep mentioning politicians? Next you'll be telling us all FF voters are like Brian Cowen.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
A politician will emphasise whatever they feel gets them elected, that does not mean that individuals dont consider themselves irish, as the Unionist posters on here have already told you.
Politicians don't define Irishness, and neither do you.
Pathetic attempt at generalisation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You're jsut funny at this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Taken seriously as Irish :D :rolleyes:
taught this was a football forum?:confused:
Hmm. Of which you're one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
But more seriously, all we wanted on Wednesday night was a level playing field. which we didn't get. And suspect we wouldn't have had, regardless.
It's in the interest of the politicians in the DUP, the UUP, Sinn Féin (and to a lesser extent the SDLP) to preserve the Irish - British dichotomy in Northern Ireland. In my opinion these parties have nothing to them apart from claiming to represent one of the two ethno-national communities. Therefore it's in the interest of the DUP to play the British identity card as it's in the interest of Sinn Féin to play to their Irish constituents. If a plural Northern Irish identity developed in the province, and with it normal politics - political parties fighting over normal issues - then the likes of Adams, Robinson, McGuinness and Dodds are out of a job. If the DUP, UUP and SF were abolished in the morning and Adams, Robinson and the others were running on Labour or Conservative tickets I'm sure they wouldn't be too slow about reaching out to voters on the other side.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
More BNP like ramblings.:rolleyes:
I'll not be losing anything, thanks.
If your idea of "Uniting" anything is to continue espousing this sort of bigotry, you will be sorely disappointed.
But, sure, keep banging your head....
Surely the last phrase is an apt description for your good self.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
But if there's no political will to change the leaders stance of the last 40 years or so, then I rest my case. If you chose to ignore that, more fool you!
Yeah, imagine respecting others right to be a different kind of Irish than I am. Madness.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
What case? You mean your claim that because politicians use their britishness to win votes means none of them are Irish? As I said, laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
[QUOTE=Gather round;1280377]Totally deserved? You went into the game needing to either a) score at least two goals or b) win the lottery of a shoot-out. You couldn't manage the first- and Gallas's goal didn't actually add to the target, 2-1 would have been as good as 2-0- and no-one knows what would have happened during penalties. So get a sense of perspective, eh?
When you stop stirring it- over and over again on this thread alone- I'll gracefully dismount and stop pontificating (not that I'd started, but I realise you may be a bit tired and emotional). See you at the Euro 2012 draw for more analysis. [QUOTE]
I feel i've been pretty reasoned in my arguments and have accepted and taken yours on board throughout this discussion. My last post was in response to your bitter and totally unnecessary comment about what happened Ireland last week. You're in the minority (of world football supporters) if you think that Ireland don't deserve to be at the world cup. And you haughtely dismiss other posters as sh!t stirrers (admittedly there are some) while coming out with a statement like a 'bunch of crybabies'. Get off the pot son.
Exactamundo. But that pluralist identity won't happen in the short-term. Though maybe could send a message to the bunkers in Belfast &, er, Cork (well one person)to tell them so....Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
You should have kicked up an almighty stink when the play offs were "seeded". Disgraceful.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
The ref (and officials) made a mistake on Wednesday. A ref made a mistake when awarding you a penalty against Georgia - and against Spain in 2002.
Refs make mistakes all the time - throughout the world. They are human beings.
A ref and linesman made a big mistake when we played France in Spain in 1982 - but, hey, I'm over it.
**** happens - it will continue to happen.
Some you win, some you lose.
Who has said differently? Once again, what a politician says does not equal what a voter is/wants. If you think it does then you mustn't have much of an opinion at all of People from ROI.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Clearly you are rather simple in this respect. Read up what Unionist politicians say about the nature of 'Irishness' and as I said earlier to everyone, let me know if you ever find anything!Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
The reason they are continually mentioned and until, as HS says, there's a groundswell for a different sort of politics in the North those people will continue as for the last century or so to represent the unionist constituency......
We did. So bring in video replays. And yes. But there's already a hundred other threads about that. I'm talking about an All-Ireland team, not indulging you about FIFA's f*ck-wittery.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
It is true - Unionist politicians do not subscribe to your, myopic, view of Irishness ie. "pure" Irishness, Gaelic Irishness, Republican Irishness.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Doh, it's the same for voters anywhere. Read up about the North before you claim to know about it, at least.....the politicians there are setting or acting on agendas determined by those who vote or are politically active!Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Check out John Coakley (2007) 'National identity in Northern Ireland: stability or change?' or the Northern Ireland Life and Times Surveys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo
In 1999, 40% of Catholics (not the same as nationalists I know) identified 'strongly' as Northern Irish with a further 32% 'weakly' and the remainder 'not at all'. 73% identified 'strongly' as Irish. You can obviously feel both Irish and Northern Irish, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.
Sorry - I was responding, directly, to YOUR post about Wednesday.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
The "All Ireland" team thing is now done to death. You have one. There is another international team on the island - Northern Ireland.
We'll be around for many years to come.
Good luck with yours.
Because they don't subscribe to any notion of such.....:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Which is fair enough as they keep telling everyone about their other more 'well-known' identity. At least they're consistent.
Read then up when I have time HS. Interested to see their surveying technique but met very few Northern nats.who would accept themselves as 'Northern Irish', though bizarrely one or two would would support the team, to 'dilute' what they saw as a more malevolent influence on itn elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
Am guessing a little of it, as being 'northern Irish', would come out of the siege mentality which people of all identies saw themselves under in the North.....
I've no doubt thats true. Come to think of an example of my own family, i've cousin from Newry who supports the ROI national team and also buys NI shirts. I asked him why he has both and he simply replied that he lived in NI and felt part of both. Which is fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
But good post Holiday.