I have little time for Andrew Duff, but here is his guide to the political "consequences" in the EU for the government's failure here to get it's way.
http://thegovmonitor.com/world_news/...rope-6862.html
Laughable stuff.
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I have little time for Andrew Duff, but here is his guide to the political "consequences" in the EU for the government's failure here to get it's way.
http://thegovmonitor.com/world_news/...rope-6862.html
Laughable stuff.
I think it's clear this is going to pass.
But every single one of you voting yes need to consider at what point you will say enough. I am generally not one for worrying about "where you draw the line" but in this case, we at least need to have a sense of the stage or a rough idea of the point at which you call stop to this inexorable move to a USE.
The campaign on both sides is a joke, so there is little chance of any proper debate on our future in europe. Nobody serious argues our future is outside europe - the debate needs to be what that europe looks like.
And let's ackowledge - the political elites want more political integration but the people don't. Leaving aside re-runs, european treaties referenda have a zero percent success rate - and there is a reason for it.
People don't want it.
So, by all means let's vote yes and delay the inevitable when integration goes too far and you will have yourselves to blame
i see no problems with how europe is working, so why change it, its a great economical tool for all the countries within it, i look at like we have had 20 years of boom boom boom, its like a forest overgrowing, theres gonna be an ineveitable fire, were currently in the fire, and its not that europe stopped working, its beacuse its ineveitable,
its suppose to be the european economic commision the EEC, not what it will become the united states of europe, with most laws coming from one source, and each state being allowed set a few laws themselfs,
also this president busuiness, how the hell does someone attain the status of the president of europe without ever having to enter an election, and also the fact why do you need a president, we already have one that does f**k all anyway, why the hell would ya want 2,
i see no valid reason to vote yes, its worked without a constitution for half a century with hugh success, and the 200,000 jobs lost in the last 18 months are gone, there not gonna magically come back when we vote yes, there gone,
Whatever the polls say, those of us on the No side won't give up until Saturday afternoon. If the result goes against us, no blame can be put on our door when the other side realise that signing away our constitution and voting with the government on this, didn't lead to the land of milk and honey after all, but dragged us deeper into the dirt instead.Quote:
I think it's clear this is going to pass.
By then, it'll be too late, and we'll be a province of the EU, rather than an independent Republic.
tommy tiernan to be the first man arrested and thrown in prison for denying the holocaust, what kind of odds will paddy power give me on that, :D
Checklist
Cowen and Harney want us to vote Yes V Higgins for a NO vote
RTE/Harris and the meeja/ V Browne, J Kerrigan and B ARnold
Robbie Keane V The fella in the Corrs
Do it for the good of the country V been told to do it
undemocractic V democracy and exercising our rights
or am I wrong!!!:D
I think I agree Bennocelt but this campaign is so feeble, aligning oneself to a particular vote because of who is advicating a yes or no, kind of goes out the window in this instance.
I am, I would suggest, older than most of you - and I don't mean any disrespect by that - but in 30 years of watching politics, I have never seen a campsign as bad as this - for completely ignoring the issues
people sould make up there own minds, its not that easy for some, but others just follow there parties for some unknown reason, you dont have to read the whole thing and understand it, i think if you can find 5 good thing and 5 bad thing about it, then that will help make your decision easier, there probably 100 reasons to vote yes and 20 to vote no, but make sure you understand what the reasons to vote no are, just cause there 5 times more reasons to vote yes doesnt mean you should vote yes, those no reasons could be hugh,
just find out 5 reasons to vote YES and 5 reasons to vote NO
and then vote NO:D
I see loads of Libertas posters have appeared equating a Yes vote with the death of Irish and European democracy.
It really has been a strange campaign. The only ones coming out with any real credit to me are the referendum commission.
I agree, its been a disgusting campaign on both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
It really fits with my view on where the country is going in general.
The scared little girls are hilarious. I can't wait for their zombie apocalypse poster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Ganley called RTE, radio Lisbon, nice one.
He also called Proinsias De Rossa a 'f***ing traitor'. Classy guy.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...w-1898172.html
De Rossa is a f***ing traitor, but not for the reasons Ganley would adduce.
OK, in the mini world of foot.ie's current affairs thread, I will proffer a deal.
You give me a guarantee that there is no further plans for more european integration, and that, in essence, all power that is intended to be centralised has already been centralised and that there is no more planned - and this treaty will be passed by 100% to nil.
You should probably add: "...and it has to be a legislative guarantee, not written on the back of a fag packet like the current lot."
It's deja vu all over again.
Quote:
Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin said there was no back-up plan if voters throw out the controversial charter on Friday. "There are no contingency plans," he said. "The bottom line is if Lisbon doesn't go through I think it puts Europe into a crisis position because we do believe, all of us involved in the European Union, that the reforms which are quite modest actually in the Lisbon Treaty are necessary to enable Europe to play a more effective role on the world stage."
Europe won't be in crisis. Brussels administration will be in crisis. Despite the fact that it has worked perfectly well since enlargement came.
These people along with bankers, and businessmen around the EU have ruined millions of people's lives in the past 2 years. It's time they suffered now. They must understand what refusal and rejection means, and be taught that however successful you are, you can't get your own way all the time. No only means No, and nothing else.
Probably a valid point, but absolutely nothing to do with Lisbon. The biggest connection to banking is Odey Asset Management's funding of Libertas.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
At this stage, having seen this mornings Ryanair ad, I think Michael O'Leary is probably the No camps best asset.
Spot on. The idea that we should vote No to "punish" bankers or government is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Vote on the treaty based on whether you think it is a good thing or not. However you vote, at least vote on the treaty. Don't use it to make an example of any particular group, no matter how sickening they are.
I don't know anymore. What this country needs most is FF out. No to FF, No to NAMA, No to Lisbon? If they do one of those surveys again post a second "No", they can come out with the conclusion that it was all an anti Government vote as a reason to go again.
A yes to Lisbon will be seen as a victory for Cowen and they'll limp on.
Don't get too excited, their "funding" was one bloke's donation to their UK European Election campaign. I'm sure you're aware how successful it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Which also has nothing to do with Lisbon.
Sinn Fein- always good for a laugh. Attacking Labour for being on the same side as FF and FG while SF are on the same side as UKIP, the conservatives and the BNP. Surely somebody from Labour will take advantage of this open goal?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking54.htm
Most opposition from political parties over the Treaty, stems from the Nationalist parties around Europe, and who want their states to be fully independent. Most of those backing it are centre parties who think we all need "ever closer union."
What we need is cooperation, not a "one size fits all" policy.
well are they not 100% right in this? Gilmore has gone back on his word when he said he would respect the vote ofthe Irish peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Did he actually say that? I just got spammed by that maggot, despite telling them to stuff their membership where the sun don't shine and specifically telling them to stop spamming me at the same time. Can't stand Gilmore. I'll take Rabbitte or Quinn over that weasel any day.
(I asked for and got a refund. Shocked and stunned I was.)
adam
Yep. Nearly sure Kenny backed him when he said it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Edit, some stuff here on p.ie
http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty...ml#post2032111
Coir back in the news again:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...255526131.html
Although Cóir are an unbearable pain in the backside, I actually agree with this particular idea.
Sean Quinn's employees have the gun put to their head:
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/s...n-1900194.html
Meanwhile, looks like the No side have taken the early lead in the first votes cast:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...GEV3viLndgvvzQ
Donegal recorded a high No vote last time. As those with 60% verdicts then are probably going to record the same Yes/No verdict, it's the marginal constituencies last time where the battle will be won and lost.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...f783406&ref=mfQuote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
I have only read the last couple of pages on this thread because I would be here til after Friday reading it :p
But this is my few cents worth....
I have thought about the two sides, Yes and No. I voted No in Lisbon 1 and I am going to vote No again on Friday. My reasons being Irish people had spoken in the first vote and we should not be asked to vote again in order for the goverment to get what they want. This can seem a little bit childish or ridiculous given that Lisbon is changed somewhat compared to the original but its my firm belief it shows the crookidness in Irish politics and my stance will not change.
Secondly I am an Irish person first and foremost then a European....if Lisbon goes through I feel not only will we lose our individuality but I think it will have major drastic effects on the way we live and the way we conduct our in house politics. People may not neccessarily think this is a bad thing but give me a Brian Cowen every day of the week rather than someone in Brussels calling the shots. I feel the main aim of this Treaty is for certain members of EU parliament to get more power and this does not sit very well with me at all. Too much power is never ever a good thing. People can argue that this isn't what its about or as the ad on tele says the 'Irish Goverment will still control taxes, laws etc' but I firmly believe this is a stepping stone for something greater to come.
I am going to vote no even though it does not sit well with me that Sinn Fein of all the parties are on the No side. I think they are on the no side for the reason that Ireland has previously been occupied and they don't want the same to happen again. I am not saying we will be invaded thats laughable but what I am saying is they currently have a slight foothold in Irish politics and they don't want to give it up which will gradually occur if EU assumes a certain degree of control.
The point that cemented my no vote was the one that out of all the nations we are the only nation to vote on it. Not only is this extremely strange it is also wrong. The fact that goverments openly admitted they did not put it to referendum in their respective nations because they knew people would reject it says it all about this Treaty.
For the Yes-ers...we all know why the goverment want it in and Michael O' Leary for the Aer Lingus coup. However I don't think its right for people to vote to get rid of the current goverment because after all we did vote um back in! Bottom line though everyone has the right to exercise their vote the way they please for the reasons they want.
Thats all Im saying...laugh if ye want:D:p
Canvassing
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...y-1901142.html
With a document as incomprehensible as this, it's little wonder that the campaign has descended the way it has.
what? everybody? No, 2/5 of the electorate are insaneQuote:
Originally Posted by 37Beour
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Obviously not everyone but majority rules and they voted them back in. Voting against the Lisbon Treaty to get them out isn't the right way about it as this Treaty will have long lasting effects for the Irish people
A couple of Czech politicians are lodging an appeal to their own court to have a second vote of the treaty in their parliment.If they succeed it could potentially sink the treaty as it will delay it being passed in the Czech Rep until June when the British general election will take place where the conservatives are favourites to win and have said they wont ratify the treaty.So if Britain doesnt pass it then it wont be adopted as all countries need to pass it for it to be adopted.
So IF Ireland does vote yes the treaty could still sink.
Article was on front page on the Irish Times.
"If given the opportunity 95% of Europeans would vote NO to this treaty"-Charlie Mc.Creevy,Hotpress Magazine,December 08.
Sorry to be pedantic but:Quote:
Originally Posted by 37Beour
Nobody voted in any election, ever, for Cowan to be Taoiseach
Nobody voted in any election, ever, for a FF / Green government
FF got 41% of first preference votes - even if you include the Greens, that number gets up to 46%, which I think you will find is less than a majority. Incidentally, including the PD's still leaves you less than 50%
SF out polled the Greens by 50%, yet the Greens are in government
I know what you are saying - that the government was elected democratically - and you are of course right - all I am saying is that more people voted against this government than for it
This cropped up somewhere else yesterday: didn't Parliament already ratify it?Quote:
Originally Posted by eamo1
yeah. The Tories just promised a referendum if we voted No I think.
Although I'm not sure that makes sense.