Lisbon Treaty

[mypost]

I have little time for Andrew Duff, but here is his guide to the political "consequences" in the EU for the government's failure here to get it's way.

http://thegovmonitor.com/world_news/...rope-6862.html

Laughable stuff.

[Angus]

I think it's clear this is going to pass.

But every single one of you voting yes need to consider at what point you will say enough. I am generally not one for worrying about "where you draw the line" but in this case, we at least need to have a sense of the stage or a rough idea of the point at which you call stop to this inexorable move to a USE.

The campaign on both sides is a joke, so there is little chance of any proper debate on our future in europe. Nobody serious argues our future is outside europe - the debate needs to be what that europe looks like.

And let's ackowledge - the political elites want more political integration but the people don't. Leaving aside re-runs, european treaties referenda have a zero percent success rate - and there is a reason for it.

People don't want it.

So, by all means let's vote yes and delay the inevitable when integration goes too far and you will have yourselves to blame

[don ramo]

i see no problems with how europe is working, so why change it, its a great economical tool for all the countries within it, i look at like we have had 20 years of boom boom boom, its like a forest overgrowing, theres gonna be an ineveitable fire, were currently in the fire, and its not that europe stopped working, its beacuse its ineveitable,

its suppose to be the european economic commision the EEC, not what it will become the united states of europe, with most laws coming from one source, and each state being allowed set a few laws themselfs,

also this president busuiness, how the hell does someone attain the status of the president of europe without ever having to enter an election, and also the fact why do you need a president, we already have one that does f**k all anyway, why the hell would ya want 2,

i see no valid reason to vote yes, its worked without a constitution for half a century with hugh success, and the 200,000 jobs lost in the last 18 months are gone, there not gonna magically come back when we vote yes, there gone,

[mypost]

I think it's clear this is going to pass.

Whatever the polls say, those of us on the No side won't give up until Saturday afternoon. If the result goes against us, no blame can be put on our door when the other side realise that signing away our constitution and voting with the government on this, didn't lead to the land of milk and honey after all, but dragged us deeper into the dirt instead.

By then, it'll be too late, and we'll be a province of the EU, rather than an independent Republic.

[don ramo]

tommy tiernan to be the first man arrested and thrown in prison for denying the holocaust, what kind of odds will paddy power give me on that,

[bennocelt]

Checklist

Cowen and Harney want us to vote Yes V Higgins for a NO vote

RTE/Harris and the meeja/ V Browne, J Kerrigan and B ARnold

Robbie Keane V The fella in the Corrs

Do it for the good of the country V been told to do it

undemocractic V democracy and exercising our rights

or am I wrong!!!

[Angus]

I think I agree Bennocelt but this campaign is so feeble, aligning oneself to a particular vote because of who is advicating a yes or no, kind of goes out the window in this instance.

I am, I would suggest, older than most of you - and I don't mean any disrespect by that - but in 30 years of watching politics, I have never seen a campsign as bad as this - for completely ignoring the issues

[don ramo]

people sould make up there own minds, its not that easy for some, but others just follow there parties for some unknown reason, you dont have to read the whole thing and understand it, i think if you can find 5 good thing and 5 bad thing about it, then that will help make your decision easier, there probably 100 reasons to vote yes and 20 to vote no, but make sure you understand what the reasons to vote no are, just cause there 5 times more reasons to vote yes doesnt mean you should vote yes, those no reasons could be hugh,

just find out 5 reasons to vote YES and 5 reasons to vote NO


and then vote NO

[Mr A]

I see loads of Libertas posters have appeared equating a Yes vote with the death of Irish and European democracy.

It really has been a strange campaign. The only ones coming out with any real credit to me are the referendum commission.

[OneRedArmy]

I see loads of Libertas posters have appeared equating a Yes vote with the death of Irish and European democracy.

It really has been a strange campaign. The only ones coming out with any real credit to me are the referendum commission.

I agree, its been a disgusting campaign on both sides.

It really fits with my view on where the country is going in general.

[BohsPartisan]

I see loads of Libertas posters have appeared equating a Yes vote with the death of Irish and European democracy.

The scared little girls are hilarious. I can't wait for their zombie apocalypse poster.

[apo11o]

Ganley called RTE, radio Lisbon, nice one.

[Mr A]

He also called Proinsias De Rossa a 'f***ing traitor'. Classy guy.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...w-1898172.html

[Sheridan]

De Rossa is a f***ing traitor, but not for the reasons Ganley would adduce.

[Angus]

OK, in the mini world of foot.ie's current affairs thread, I will proffer a deal.

You give me a guarantee that there is no further plans for more european integration, and that, in essence, all power that is intended to be centralised has already been centralised and that there is no more planned - and this treaty will be passed by 100% to nil.

[dahamsta]

You should probably add: "...and it has to be a legislative guarantee, not written on the back of a fag packet like the current lot."

[dahamsta]

It's deja vu all over again.

Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin said there was no back-up plan if voters throw out the controversial charter on Friday. "There are no contingency plans," he said. "The bottom line is if Lisbon doesn't go through I think it puts Europe into a crisis position because we do believe, all of us involved in the European Union, that the reforms which are quite modest actually in the Lisbon Treaty are necessary to enable Europe to play a more effective role on the world stage."

[mypost]

Europe won't be in crisis. Brussels administration will be in crisis. Despite the fact that it has worked perfectly well since enlargement came.

These people along with bankers, and businessmen around the EU have ruined millions of people's lives in the past 2 years. It's time they suffered now. They must understand what refusal and rejection means, and be taught that however successful you are, you can't get your own way all the time. No only means No, and nothing else.

[OneRedArmy]

These people along with bankers, and businessmen around the EU have ruined millions of people's lives in the past 2 years. It's time they suffered now. They must understand what refusal and rejection means, and be taught that however successful you are, you can't get your own way all the time. No only means No, and nothing else.

Probably a valid point, but absolutely nothing to do with Lisbon. The biggest connection to banking is Odey Asset Management's funding of Libertas.

At this stage, having seen this mornings Ryanair ad, I think Michael O'Leary is probably the No camps best asset.

[osarusan]

Probably a valid point, but absolutely nothing to do with Lisbon.

Spot on. The idea that we should vote No to "punish" bankers or government is ridiculous.

Vote on the treaty based on whether you think it is a good thing or not. However you vote, at least vote on the treaty. Don't use it to make an example of any particular group, no matter how sickening they are.