Lisbon Treaty

[Macy]

I don't know anymore. What this country needs most is FF out. No to FF, No to NAMA, No to Lisbon? If they do one of those surveys again post a second "No", they can come out with the conclusion that it was all an anti Government vote as a reason to go again.

A yes to Lisbon will be seen as a victory for Cowen and they'll limp on.

[mypost]

Probably a valid point, but absolutely nothing to do with Lisbon. The biggest connection to banking is Odey Asset Management's funding of Libertas.

Don't get too excited, their "funding" was one bloke's donation to their UK European Election campaign. I'm sure you're aware how successful it was.

Which also has nothing to do with Lisbon.

[Mr A]

Sinn Fein- always good for a laugh. Attacking Labour for being on the same side as FF and FG while SF are on the same side as UKIP, the conservatives and the BNP. Surely somebody from Labour will take advantage of this open goal?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking54.htm

[mypost]

Most opposition from political parties over the Treaty, stems from the Nationalist parties around Europe, and who want their states to be fully independent. Most of those backing it are centre parties who think we all need "ever closer union."

What we need is cooperation, not a "one size fits all" policy.

[bennocelt]

Sinn Fein- always good for a laugh. Attacking Labour for being on the same side as FF and FG while SF are on the same side as UKIP, the conservatives and the BNP. Surely somebody from Labour will take advantage of this open goal?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking54.htm

well are they not 100% right in this? Gilmore has gone back on his word when he said he would respect the vote ofthe Irish people

[dahamsta]

Did he actually say that? I just got spammed by that maggot, despite telling them to stuff their membership where the sun don't shine and specifically telling them to stop spamming me at the same time. Can't stand Gilmore. I'll take Rabbitte or Quinn over that weasel any day.

(I asked for and got a refund. Shocked and stunned I was.)

adam

[BohsPartisan]

Did he actually say that?

Yep. Nearly sure Kenny backed him when he said it too.

Edit, some stuff here on p.ie
http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty...ml#post2032111

[mypost]

Coir back in the news again:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...255526131.html

[superfrank]

Although Cóir are an unbearable pain in the backside, I actually agree with this particular idea.

[mypost]

Sean Quinn's employees have the gun put to their head:

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/s...n-1900194.html

Meanwhile, looks like the No side have taken the early lead in the first votes cast:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...GEV3viLndgvvzQ

Donegal recorded a high No vote last time. As those with 60% verdicts then are probably going to record the same Yes/No verdict, it's the marginal constituencies last time where the battle will be won and lost.

[thischarmingman]

"Did our priests fight the feminists for this?"

[BohsPartisan]

"Did our priests fight the feminists for this?"

[37Beour]

I have only read the last couple of pages on this thread because I would be here til after Friday reading it

But this is my few cents worth....

I have thought about the two sides, Yes and No. I voted No in Lisbon 1 and I am going to vote No again on Friday. My reasons being Irish people had spoken in the first vote and we should not be asked to vote again in order for the goverment to get what they want. This can seem a little bit childish or ridiculous given that Lisbon is changed somewhat compared to the original but its my firm belief it shows the crookidness in Irish politics and my stance will not change.

Secondly I am an Irish person first and foremost then a European....if Lisbon goes through I feel not only will we lose our individuality but I think it will have major drastic effects on the way we live and the way we conduct our in house politics. People may not neccessarily think this is a bad thing but give me a Brian Cowen every day of the week rather than someone in Brussels calling the shots. I feel the main aim of this Treaty is for certain members of EU parliament to get more power and this does not sit very well with me at all. Too much power is never ever a good thing. People can argue that this isn't what its about or as the ad on tele says the 'Irish Goverment will still control taxes, laws etc' but I firmly believe this is a stepping stone for something greater to come.

I am going to vote no even though it does not sit well with me that Sinn Fein of all the parties are on the No side. I think they are on the no side for the reason that Ireland has previously been occupied and they don't want the same to happen again. I am not saying we will be invaded thats laughable but what I am saying is they currently have a slight foothold in Irish politics and they don't want to give it up which will gradually occur if EU assumes a certain degree of control.

The point that cemented my no vote was the one that out of all the nations we are the only nation to vote on it. Not only is this extremely strange it is also wrong. The fact that goverments openly admitted they did not put it to referendum in their respective nations because they knew people would reject it says it all about this Treaty.

For the Yes-ers...we all know why the goverment want it in and Michael O' Leary for the Aer Lingus coup. However I don't think its right for people to vote to get rid of the current goverment because after all we did vote um back in! Bottom line though everyone has the right to exercise their vote the way they please for the reasons they want.

Thats all Im saying...laugh if ye want

[mypost]

Canvassing

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...y-1901142.html

With a document as incomprehensible as this, it's little wonder that the campaign has descended the way it has.

[bennocelt]

For the Yes-ers...we all know why the goverment want it in and Michael O' Leary for the Aer Lingus coup. However I don't think its right for people to vote to get rid of the current goverment because after all we did vote um back in! Bottom line though everyone has the right to exercise their vote the way they please for the reasons they want.

what? everybody? No, 2/5 of the electorate are insane

[37Beour]

what? everybody? No, 2/5 of the electorate are insane

Obviously not everyone but majority rules and they voted them back in. Voting against the Lisbon Treaty to get them out isn't the right way about it as this Treaty will have long lasting effects for the Irish people

[eamo1]

A couple of Czech politicians are lodging an appeal to their own court to have a second vote of the treaty in their parliment.If they succeed it could potentially sink the treaty as it will delay it being passed in the Czech Rep until June when the British general election will take place where the conservatives are favourites to win and have said they wont ratify the treaty.So if Britain doesnt pass it then it wont be adopted as all countries need to pass it for it to be adopted.
So IF Ireland does vote yes the treaty could still sink.
Article was on front page on the Irish Times.


"If given the opportunity 95% of Europeans would vote NO to this treaty"-Charlie Mc.Creevy,Hotpress Magazine,December 08.

[Angus]

Obviously not everyone but majority rules and they voted them back in. Voting against the Lisbon Treaty to get them out isn't the right way about it as this Treaty will have long lasting effects for the Irish people

Sorry to be pedantic but:

Nobody voted in any election, ever, for Cowan to be Taoiseach

Nobody voted in any election, ever, for a FF / Green government

FF got 41% of first preference votes - even if you include the Greens, that number gets up to 46%, which I think you will find is less than a majority. Incidentally, including the PD's still leaves you less than 50%

SF out polled the Greens by 50%, yet the Greens are in government

I know what you are saying - that the government was elected democratically - and you are of course right - all I am saying is that more people voted against this government than for it

[dahamsta]

the British general election will take place where the conservatives are favourites to win and have said they wont ratify the treaty.So if Britain doesnt pass it then it wont be adopted as all countries need to pass it for it to be adopted.

This cropped up somewhere else yesterday: didn't Parliament already ratify it?

[Mr A]

yeah. The Tories just promised a referendum if we voted No I think.

Although I'm not sure that makes sense.