The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

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14/11/2009, 3:58 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyDCFC

The last few pages of this thread have been crazy reading to say the least

DCFC were forced to leave the IL in the 70's and over thirty years later it would appear that there are some on here that are suggesting that we are forced back into the IL again

Depends on which club you are talking about. The existing Derry City or any possible new Derry City.
14/11/2009, 8:40 PM
Dodge

Apologies Kildareman

However Kildare's problems aren't the making of the FAi and ultimately Kildare made the decision not to carry on. Derry haven't made that decision

Yet
14/11/2009, 9:16 PM
SligoBrewer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

Surely this means that DCFC are out of the Setanta cup or will that be fudged as well I wonder..

Who cares?
14/11/2009, 10:38 PM
Kildareman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Apologies Kildareman

However Kildare's problems aren't the making of the FAi and ultimately Kildare made the decision not to carry on. Derry haven't made that decision
Yet

Neither are Derrys problems the making of the FAI but the FAI have chosen to help Derry as best it can.
It wasnt us who were caught cheating and possibly committing fraud.
Yet we are ignored.
I would be pretty sure the club would have accepted A League football for a clean bill of health.:mad:
15/11/2009, 12:21 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Depends on which club you are talking about. The existing Derry City or any possible new Derry City.

You seem to be confusing legal entity and trading name.

Per our membership of both the IFA and the FAI the club is Derry City FC. Always has been and hopefully always will be.
15/11/2009, 1:00 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kildareman

Neither are Derrys problems the making of the FAI but the FAI have chosen to help Derry as best it can.
It wasnt us who were caught cheating and possibly committing fraud.
Yet we are ignored.
I would be pretty sure the club would have accepted A League football for a clean bill of health.:mad:

The FAi haven't helped Derry at all. They still owe their creditors, and they've demoted them

How have the FAI helped Derry here?
15/11/2009, 11:09 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Depends on which club you are talking about. The existing Derry City or any possible new Derry City.

What difference does it make ? :confused:

If the existing DCFC is no different than the one that 'died' in 1972, only to ressurect 13 years later, then why would the current one be any different than a future one that stopped and instantly restarted as a different trading entity ?

Net - there's no diffference. Weak WUMming...
15/11/2009, 11:12 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kildareman

Neither are Derrys problems the making of the FAI but the FAI have chosen to help Derry as best it can.
It wasnt us who were caught cheating and possibly committing fraud.
Yet we are ignored.
I would be pretty sure the club would have accepted A League football for a clean bill of health.:mad:

I know that you and a lot of people won't like the cold hard reality of this staement, but reality is that some clubs are considered worth saving and some are considered more important/essential to our league than others.

Anyone who doesn't think that is the case is deluding themselves as to the economic and political realities of football. It'd be the same in any league in the world.

If you don't like that reality being typed on a screen, then don't have a go at me for being the one who points it out.

The football romantic and the democrat in me dislikes the fact that that's the way football is. But the realist in me can see and understand it.
15/11/2009, 11:40 AM
Kildareman

Oh please Dodge theres 85 pages on the orchestrated fudge here. Do you really need it repeated.

I totally agree with Steve. Derry and other high profile clubs especially those in a city will always have priority over clubs like ours.
I am really making the point that we didnt just decide to pack it all in at a whim. An effort was made to survive but the tentacles of support couldnt stretch as far as Kildare.
15/11/2009, 12:39 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kildareman

An effort was made to survive but the tentacles of support couldnt stretch as far as Kildare.

We have a group of local businessmen who again are likely to inject money to get the new club going and possibly to pay off the IL clubs if required.

Do Kildare have the same? All the FAI have said is that they will support us if we have the will and the cash to start from scratch and put a team on the pitch.

From what I've seen Kildare have neither the will nor the cash to keep a team going?
15/11/2009, 1:21 PM
Kildareman

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

We have a group of local businessmen who again are likely to inject money to get the new club going and possibly to pay off the IL clubs if required.

From what I've seen Kildare have neither the will nor the cash to keep a team going?

I took it that the clubs debts are carried by the outgoing directors and not the "new" Derry city (small 'c';)).
Investing in the new club is one thing but I doubt very much that a group of local businessmen are willing to pay off other directors debts??

It is amazing how the will can return when the cash appears..:D
15/11/2009, 1:24 PM
-lamb-

are 2 of those local businessmen also on the steering group and also own 60% of the wellvan/derry city shares between them?
15/11/2009, 1:34 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by -lamb-

are 2 of those local businessmen also on the steering group and also own 60% of the wellvan/derry city shares between them?

So you read the papers as well?
15/11/2009, 2:26 PM
-lamb-

not about derry city, no.
15/11/2009, 3:04 PM
thischarmingman

http://www.independent.ie/sport/othe...l-1944007.html

Quote:

We'd never seen anything like it. In the depressed Irish '80s, they were like visitors from another dimension. It was as though the League of Ireland had suddenly been transformed into a different competition altogether, for one Sunday and one Sunday only at your local ground
15/11/2009, 3:08 PM
Aaron

Quote:

Originally Posted by -lamb-

are 2 of those local businessmen also on the steering group and also own 60% of the wellvan/derry city shares between them?

Why ask that question here when I posted that on ILS;)
15/11/2009, 3:14 PM
Riddickcule

The Loi is well and truely ******ed...
15/11/2009, 4:08 PM
-lamb-

Quote:

Originally Posted by City till I Die

Why ask that question here when I posted that on ILS;)

hello aaron(?) :p
actually, nightmare partially dragged it out eventually.
but always best to double check. all derry city info needs confirmed elsewhere otherwise who knows what nonsense you might end up being suckered into believing. ;)
plus, it disseminates interesting info to parties who otherwise may not have known.
15/11/2009, 4:18 PM
Riddickcule

Did anyone read the long article about the state of the loi in the sunday times today?

It was in the business section, very thorough and many figures and facts.
15/11/2009, 4:35 PM
-lamb-

i'm just sitting down with the sunday times right this second actually.
15/11/2009, 5:07 PM
Magicme

Anyone got a link to it, didnt get any papers today.
15/11/2009, 6:19 PM
iceman

Gloomy reading indeed:rolleyes:
15/11/2009, 8:17 PM
thischarmingman

From When Saturday Comes:

http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/4010/38/
15/11/2009, 10:21 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

What difference does it make ? :confused:

If the existing DCFC is no different than the one that 'died' in 1972, only to ressurect 13 years later, then why would the current one be any different than a future one that stopped and instantly restarted as a different trading entity ?

Net - there's no diffference. Weak WUMming...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

You seem to be confusing legal entity and trading name.

Per our membership of both the IFA and the FAI the club is Derry City FC. Always has been and hopefully always will be.

I'm not confusing anything. I think you would need to check up on the current IFA regulations as they do not allow such an easy differentiation between the trading and legal entities. ;)
15/11/2009, 10:39 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I'm not confusing anything. I think you would need to check up on the current IFA regulations as they do not allow such an easy differentiation between the trading and legal entities. ;)

We'll worry about that if the need arises, Mr Mooty McMoot.

What is it that they put in the christmas hampers of Irish League fans - 'Eau de Conjecture' or something.....? :confused:
16/11/2009, 6:37 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I'm not confusing anything. I think you would need to check up on the current IFA regulations as they do not allow such an easy differentiation between the trading and legal entities. ;)

Good job we're not planning to play in the IL so.
16/11/2009, 9:21 AM
pineapple stu

Back on topic - is there any confirmation that the Radio Foyle reports are correct?
16/11/2009, 9:55 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Back on topic - is there any confirmation that the Radio Foyle reports are correct?

What Radio Foyle reports, that we are going into Division 1 next season?

Off the top of my head, that would need:
1) Us to form a new legal entity and buy the trading name off the liquidator
2) Find a way to pay off the IL creditors within the rules of the law
3) Put together a licensing application
4) Get a team and manager
5) An FAI Board meeting to consider our application

Whatever way you look at it there's months of work before we know for sure.
16/11/2009, 11:15 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by A N Mouse

You think the FAI are bad?

Whatever you think of John Delaney, he has probably done more, personally, for the club than the IL/IFA have in the forty odd years since the first time they wouldn't let us play in the Brandywell, against Anderlecht.

They weren't overly worried about there being no senior football in Northern Ireland's second city. Coleraine are tolerated, because they're part of the furniture, while the 'big teams' would rather the likes of Dungannon, Limavady and Institute played somewhere else (too far to travel don't you know). And of course they let Omagh Town feck off wither and die.

A lot of woolly-minded, uninformed nonsense there, I think.
For one thing, when referring to "they", you blithely and incorrectly conflate the IL, IFA and "big clubs" in your determination to bad mouth senior football in NI.

More specifically, certain parties may not have been "overly worried" about DCFC having a place in senior football, but others were much more sympathetic - eg Glentoran assisting their efforts to join the LOI. Besides, things change over the decades, as demonstrated by another club from the second city, Institute, gaining a place at the top level.

As for Coleraine being "part of the furniture", what does that actually mean? That their presence a long distance from Belfast screws your other argument about "big clubs" not wanting to travel?

And as for Swifts, Limavady and Stute being "unwelcome" for being small or distant etc, that is patent balls. Otherwise why would the IFA/IL have adopted a pyramid system and licensing system etc, which allows for progression on footballing merit from Intermediate level via the Championship, to the top level, so long as minimum off-field standards are maintained?

Why would the IL Premier Division be 12 clubs, as opposed to 10 in the LOI? Why would a major provincial club like Portadown, reasonably close to Belfast, have had their Premier application rejected on a technicality, when clubs like Stute were in there? Why would a Belfast club like Donegal Celtic have been excluded, whilst a distant club like Swifts were accepted.

And as for Omagh Town, you clearly don't know the first thing about what went on at that club. Legal considerations prevent me from suggesting the real reasons for their demise (regretted by absolutely no-one, btw), other than to say that many feel their difficulties were more a matter for the RUC to investigate, than the IFA's to resolve.

And as for all the FAI/Delaney are doing for DCFC etc, that is a long way from what certain individuals at the very heart of the club were saying as recently as a week or two ago.

Things change, you know, even if they don't in the minds of certain other individuals...:rolleyes:
16/11/2009, 11:24 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

We'll worry about that if the need arises, Mr Mooty McMoot.

What is it that they put in the christmas hampers of Irish League fans - 'Eau de Conjecture' or something.....? :confused:

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know exactly which "DCFC" is applying to join (or renew with) them - there is the little matter of debts to other IFA Members clubs to consider, after all.

Of course, DCFC and the FAI may attempt to ignore such niceties and who knows, they might even get away with it, but it is exactly this unwillingness to face facts and respect rules which keeps getting both into difficulties.

Still, why bother about all that, when you can deflect attention from it by snide comments, personal abuse and smart-alec remarks?
16/11/2009, 11:25 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know exactly which "DCFC" is applying to join (or renew with) them - there is the little matter of debts to other IFA Members clubs to consider, after all.

Of course, DCFC and the FAI may attempt to ignore such niceties and who knows, they might even get away with it, but it is exactly this unwillingness to face facts and respect rules which keeps getting both into difficulties.

Still, why bother about all that, when you can deflect attention from it by snide comments, personal abuse and smart-alec remarks?

EG - I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Wait.

And.

See.

What.

Happens......
16/11/2009, 11:37 AM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know...

http://trinitypastor.files.wordpress...ken_record.jpg
16/11/2009, 11:49 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And as for Omagh Town, you clearly don't know the first thing about what went on at that club. Legal considerations prevent me from suggesting the real reasons for their demise (regretted by absolutely no-one, btw), other than to say that many feel their difficulties were more a matter for the RUC to investigate, than the IFA's to resolve.

And as for all the FAI/Delaney are doing for DCFC etc, that is a long way from what certain individuals at the very heart of the club were saying as recently as a week or two ago.

Things change, you know, even if they don't in the minds of certain other individuals...:rolleyes:

The same legal constraints don't seem to bother you in relation to Derry City.

One rule for one a different one for the rest. Usual story as far as the IFA/IL goes in relation to Derry City.

You seem to like to dish it out but don't like getting it back. You know where you can go if you don't like it...
16/11/2009, 11:56 AM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And as for all the FAI/Delaney are doing for DCFC etc, that is a long way from what certain individuals at the very heart of the club were saying as recently as a week or two ago.

Things change, you know, even if they don't in the minds of certain other individuals...:rolleyes:

The individuals who have departed the club with their reputations in tatters?

Why exactly would any store be placed in what they said.

The FAI raised the issue of the IL creditors last week at the meetings that were held. No one is ignoring anything. But sure you keep shouting away.
16/11/2009, 11:57 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

In that case, close down the entire forum; otherwise you'll have people posting on things like who's going to win the League next season, what clubs players are going to be signing for, how the ROI will do in Paris on Wednesday etc etc.

http://i4.bebo.com/047a/16/medium/20...859573140m.jpg

Thankfully no-one else has the same absurd propensity that you do for repeating themselves ad nauseum over what is currently a moot point. Hence why the rest of the website works just fine.

Put the Kleenex back in the box and let's all just wait a few weeks and see what happens.

Final post on this - I've been bored into submission.

:ball:
16/11/2009, 12:00 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

There's no point arguing with DCFCSteve, he is one of them no f*ck all no it alls, who always thinks he's right.

I really wouldn't give much credence to what he posts and I sure as hell wouldn't bother having a sensible discussion with him as it really isn't possible, especially with his pedantry, smart a$$ remarks.

A "no f*ck all no it alls' .......!? :D

I certainly know more about spelling than you do anyway SB. :o

Thanks - that's cheered me up no end (and enabled me to temporarily break my desire to not post on this pointless arguement anymore).

Big kiss x
16/11/2009, 12:03 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

A "no f*ck all no it alls' .......!? :D

I certainly know more about spelling than you do anyway SB. :o

Thanks - that's cheered me up no end (and enabled me to temporarily break my desire to not post on this pointless arguement anymore).

Big kiss x

I forgot to mention when your not getting your way, you move onto spelling and grammar.;)
16/11/2009, 12:07 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

... no actual provision in the IL Rules to deny a club "inheriting" membership in such circumstances!..

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I wouldn't be so certain that the IL would even have you back...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

..."DCFC2010" may not be permitted by UEFA to play in the LOI, or even 'A' League, for jurisdictional reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

... any new entity which replaces Wellvan may find it difficult to justify playing in the ROI or gain a licence for the IL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

...Any professional club has to be a Member of the Association within whose boundaries it is situated...

Therefore, if the IFA is of a mind to, I suspect it could either draw the new teams intention to apply to the LOI to the attention of UEFA for an adjudication, or possibly even prevent it altogether, since unlike 1985, any objection might not be considered unreasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

There are no longer any extraordinary reasons which would prevent them participating in the IL like every other NI club; therefore the principle that clubs should ordinarily compete in a League within their own National Association's jurisdiction should prevail (imo).

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If I understand you right, are you saying that DCFC do not have to transfer their membership of an Association from the IFA to the FAI?

If so, then that much is true, for I'm pretty certain that any club which is located in NI has to be a Member of the IFA, whether or not they participate in an NI League. This explains why, for instance, Cardiff C and Swansea C are still both members of the FAW.

The issue in DCFC's case is twofold however (imo). Since the old DCFC/Wellvan is no more, then its membership of the IFA must presumably also have ceased to exist.
Therefore, any new club setting up in NI, regardless of the background circumstances of its incorporation, must presumably have to apply to the IFA for membership.

Thereafter, assuming that membership was approved, they presumably would have to seek permission, either from UEFA or the IFA (or both), in order to participate in a League outside the jurisdiction of their own Association.

Whether that permission is a mere formality, or would have to be substantively justified, I'm not sure. In principle, however, I feel it ought to be the latter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

So what you are saying is that the IFA and FAI should both turn a blind eye to the regulatory, even legal, status of the successor to DCFC?...

So you need only make good your obligations to those entities which may have the power to prevent you going merrily along your preferred path?
I guess it must be "To Hell" with any other small creditor who isn't in a position to object...

The topic of debate is a prospective football club which will be based in NI, playing its home games in NI and which it seems likely will have to be a member of the IFA in NI.
Meanwhile, it hopes to play its League football in another jurisdiction, which situation is ordinarily not allowed, so that it seems it should be obliged to receive at least an acknowledgement by UEFA/the IFA that it may do so in succession to the former DCFC, if not a brand new authorisation all of its own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

...I would not suggest that the IFA force DCFC to rejoin the IL "or else", at least without good reason.
But neither do I accept that they should just ignore what is going on at one of their (former?) Member clubs, either...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

For if we really are talking about a new club, then the onus should not be on the IFA to show why it (club) may not play in another jurisdiction, rather it should be on the new club to show how/why it may.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know exactly which "DCFC" is applying to join (or renew with) them - there is the little matter of debts to other IFA Members clubs to consider, after all.

You've made your point. Repeating yourself over and over and over to provoke a reaction is trolling.
16/11/2009, 12:18 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The same legal constraints don't seem to bother you in relation to Derry City.

If I posted what I (ahem) "strongly suspect" to be the case as regards Omagh Town, it would risk getting this forum closed down.

Where have I ever posted anything regarding DCFC which could be considered even remotely actionable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

One rule for one a different one for the rest. Usual story as far as the IFA/IL goes in relation to Derry City.

How so?
The IL didn't want DCFC in the IL back in the 1980's, so they weren't voted back in. Similarly, the IFA/IL didn't want OTFC*, in any shape or form, back in the IL, so no effort was made to get them back in.
You might have mentioned Portadown's application for membership of the Prem being rejected by the IFA solely for being submitted 29 minutes late, or Donegal Celtic's application being outscored by other clubs considered less "attractive"/"justified".
How is any of that "one rule for one a different one for the rest"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

You seem to like to dish it out but don't like getting it back.

Dishing "what" out, exactly? Snide personal remarks? Refusing to answer direct questions? Don't think so, somehow.
As for "getting it back", I am not the one who keeps avoiding the issues in my posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

You know where you can go if you don't like it...

Who's the one "who can't take it" now, then? Classy, real classy.

Anyhow, one of the reasons I like this forum is that it is well moderated; if I post anything which is out-of-order, it will be the Mods who direct me elsewhere, not some aggrieved poster who seemingly cannot bear to be reminded of certain uncomfortable truths about the team he supports.

* - Whatever point ANMouse was trying to make in his garbled post, his reference to OTFC made no supporting sense at all.
16/11/2009, 12:26 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariborKev

The individuals who have departed the club with their reputations in tatters?

Why exactly would any store be placed in what they said.

The FAI raised the issue of the IL creditors last week at the meetings that were held. No one is ignoring anything. But sure you keep shouting away.

Note to DCFC Steve, ORA and others:
The above is an answer to a point which has been raised, whether it be a good reply or otherwise. It is such responses which allow for proper discussion on a message board.
Refusing to answer direct questions and choosing instead to make sarcastic remarks, or accusing the questioner of being repetitive or disruptive etc, even though he is merely trying to elicit a reply, does not.

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