The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[Magicme]

Anyone got a link to it, didnt get any papers today.

[iceman]

Gloomy reading indeed

[thischarmingman]

From When Saturday Comes:

http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/4010/38/

[Mr_Parker]

What difference does it make ?

If the existing DCFC is no different than the one that 'died' in 1972, only to ressurect 13 years later, then why would the current one be any different than a future one that stopped and instantly restarted as a different trading entity ?

Net - there's no diffference. Weak WUMming...

You seem to be confusing legal entity and trading name.

Per our membership of both the IFA and the FAI the club is Derry City FC. Always has been and hopefully always will be.

I'm not confusing anything. I think you would need to check up on the current IFA regulations as they do not allow such an easy differentiation between the trading and legal entities.

[dcfcsteve]

I'm not confusing anything. I think you would need to check up on the current IFA regulations as they do not allow such an easy differentiation between the trading and legal entities.

We'll worry about that if the need arises, Mr Mooty McMoot.

What is it that they put in the christmas hampers of Irish League fans - 'Eau de Conjecture' or something.....?

[OneRedArmy]

I'm not confusing anything. I think you would need to check up on the current IFA regulations as they do not allow such an easy differentiation between the trading and legal entities.

Good job we're not planning to play in the IL so.

[pineapple stu]

Back on topic - is there any confirmation that the Radio Foyle reports are correct?

[OneRedArmy]

Back on topic - is there any confirmation that the Radio Foyle reports are correct?

What Radio Foyle reports, that we are going into Division 1 next season?

Off the top of my head, that would need:
1) Us to form a new legal entity and buy the trading name off the liquidator
2) Find a way to pay off the IL creditors within the rules of the law
3) Put together a licensing application
4) Get a team and manager
5) An FAI Board meeting to consider our application

Whatever way you look at it there's months of work before we know for sure.

[EalingGreen]

You think the FAI are bad?

Whatever you think of John Delaney, he has probably done more, personally, for the club than the IL/IFA have in the forty odd years since the first time they wouldn't let us play in the Brandywell, against Anderlecht.

They weren't overly worried about there being no senior football in Northern Ireland's second city. Coleraine are tolerated, because they're part of the furniture, while the 'big teams' would rather the likes of Dungannon, Limavady and Institute played somewhere else (too far to travel don't you know). And of course they let Omagh Town feck off wither and die.

A lot of woolly-minded, uninformed nonsense there, I think.
For one thing, when referring to "they", you blithely and incorrectly conflate the IL, IFA and "big clubs" in your determination to bad mouth senior football in NI.

More specifically, certain parties may not have been "overly worried" about DCFC having a place in senior football, but others were much more sympathetic - eg Glentoran assisting their efforts to join the LOI. Besides, things change over the decades, as demonstrated by another club from the second city, Institute, gaining a place at the top level.

As for Coleraine being "part of the furniture", what does that actually mean? That their presence a long distance from Belfast screws your other argument about "big clubs" not wanting to travel?

And as for Swifts, Limavady and Stute being "unwelcome" for being small or distant etc, that is patent balls. Otherwise why would the IFA/IL have adopted a pyramid system and licensing system etc, which allows for progression on footballing merit from Intermediate level via the Championship, to the top level, so long as minimum off-field standards are maintained?

Why would the IL Premier Division be 12 clubs, as opposed to 10 in the LOI? Why would a major provincial club like Portadown, reasonably close to Belfast, have had their Premier application rejected on a technicality, when clubs like Stute were in there? Why would a Belfast club like Donegal Celtic have been excluded, whilst a distant club like Swifts were accepted.

And as for Omagh Town, you clearly don't know the first thing about what went on at that club. Legal considerations prevent me from suggesting the real reasons for their demise (regretted by absolutely no-one, btw), other than to say that many feel their difficulties were more a matter for the RUC to investigate, than the IFA's to resolve.

And as for all the FAI/Delaney are doing for DCFC etc, that is a long way from what certain individuals at the very heart of the club were saying as recently as a week or two ago.

Things change, you know, even if they don't in the minds of certain other individuals...

[EalingGreen]

We'll worry about that if the need arises, Mr Mooty McMoot.

What is it that they put in the christmas hampers of Irish League fans - 'Eau de Conjecture' or something.....?

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know exactly which "DCFC" is applying to join (or renew with) them - there is the little matter of debts to other IFA Members clubs to consider, after all.

Of course, DCFC and the FAI may attempt to ignore such niceties and who knows, they might even get away with it, but it is exactly this unwillingness to face facts and respect rules which keeps getting both into difficulties.

Still, why bother about all that, when you can deflect attention from it by snide comments, personal abuse and smart-alec remarks?

[dcfcsteve]

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know exactly which "DCFC" is applying to join (or renew with) them - there is the little matter of debts to other IFA Members clubs to consider, after all.

Of course, DCFC and the FAI may attempt to ignore such niceties and who knows, they might even get away with it, but it is exactly this unwillingness to face facts and respect rules which keeps getting both into difficulties.

Still, why bother about all that, when you can deflect attention from it by snide comments, personal abuse and smart-alec remarks?

EG - I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Wait.

And.

See.

What.

Happens......

[John83]

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know...

[OneRedArmy]

And as for Omagh Town, you clearly don't know the first thing about what went on at that club. Legal considerations prevent me from suggesting the real reasons for their demise (regretted by absolutely no-one, btw), other than to say that many feel their difficulties were more a matter for the RUC to investigate, than the IFA's to resolve.

And as for all the FAI/Delaney are doing for DCFC etc, that is a long way from what certain individuals at the very heart of the club were saying as recently as a week or two ago.

Things change, you know, even if they don't in the minds of certain other individuals...

The same legal constraints don't seem to bother you in relation to Derry City.

One rule for one a different one for the rest. Usual story as far as the IFA/IL goes in relation to Derry City.

You seem to like to dish it out but don't like getting it back. You know where you can go if you don't like it...

[MariborKev]

And as for all the FAI/Delaney are doing for DCFC etc, that is a long way from what certain individuals at the very heart of the club were saying as recently as a week or two ago.

Things change, you know, even if they don't in the minds of certain other individuals...

The individuals who have departed the club with their reputations in tatters?

Why exactly would any store be placed in what they said.

The FAI raised the issue of the IL creditors last week at the meetings that were held. No one is ignoring anything. But sure you keep shouting away.

[dcfcsteve]

In that case, close down the entire forum; otherwise you'll have people posting on things like who's going to win the League next season, what clubs players are going to be signing for, how the ROI will do in Paris on Wednesday etc etc.

Thankfully no-one else has the same absurd propensity that you do for repeating themselves ad nauseum over what is currently a moot point. Hence why the rest of the website works just fine.

Put the Kleenex back in the box and let's all just wait a few weeks and see what happens.

Final post on this - I've been bored into submission.

[dcfcsteve]

There's no point arguing with DCFCSteve, he is one of them no f*ck all no it alls, who always thinks he's right.

I really wouldn't give much credence to what he posts and I sure as hell wouldn't bother having a sensible discussion with him as it really isn't possible, especially with his pedantry, smart a$$ remarks.

A "no f*ck all no it alls' .......!?

I certainly know more about spelling than you do anyway SB.

Thanks - that's cheered me up no end (and enabled me to temporarily break my desire to not post on this pointless arguement anymore).

Big kiss x

[Steve Bruce]

A "no f*ck all no it alls' .......!?

I certainly know more about spelling than you do anyway SB.

Thanks - that's cheered me up no end (and enabled me to temporarily break my desire to not post on this pointless arguement anymore).

Big kiss x

I forgot to mention when your not getting your way, you move onto spelling and grammar.

[John83]

... no actual provision in the IL Rules to deny a club "inheriting" membership in such circumstances!..

I wouldn't be so certain that the IL would even have you back...

..."DCFC2010" may not be permitted by UEFA to play in the LOI, or even 'A' League, for jurisdictional reasons.

... any new entity which replaces Wellvan may find it difficult to justify playing in the ROI or gain a licence for the IL.

...Any professional club has to be a Member of the Association within whose boundaries it is situated...

Therefore, if the IFA is of a mind to, I suspect it could either draw the new teams intention to apply to the LOI to the attention of UEFA for an adjudication, or possibly even prevent it altogether, since unlike 1985, any objection might not be considered unreasonable.

There are no longer any extraordinary reasons which would prevent them participating in the IL like every other NI club; therefore the principle that clubs should ordinarily compete in a League within their own National Association's jurisdiction should prevail (imo).

If I understand you right, are you saying that DCFC do not have to transfer their membership of an Association from the IFA to the FAI?

If so, then that much is true, for I'm pretty certain that any club which is located in NI has to be a Member of the IFA, whether or not they participate in an NI League. This explains why, for instance, Cardiff C and Swansea C are still both members of the FAW.

The issue in DCFC's case is twofold however (imo). Since the old DCFC/Wellvan is no more, then its membership of the IFA must presumably also have ceased to exist.
Therefore, any new club setting up in NI, regardless of the background circumstances of its incorporation, must presumably have to apply to the IFA for membership.

Thereafter, assuming that membership was approved, they presumably would have to seek permission, either from UEFA or the IFA (or both), in order to participate in a League outside the jurisdiction of their own Association.

Whether that permission is a mere formality, or would have to be substantively justified, I'm not sure. In principle, however, I feel it ought to be the latter.

So what you are saying is that the IFA and FAI should both turn a blind eye to the regulatory, even legal, status of the successor to DCFC?...

So you need only make good your obligations to those entities which may have the power to prevent you going merrily along your preferred path?
I guess it must be "To Hell" with any other small creditor who isn't in a position to object...

The topic of debate is a prospective football club which will be based in NI, playing its home games in NI and which it seems likely will have to be a member of the IFA in NI.
Meanwhile, it hopes to play its League football in another jurisdiction, which situation is ordinarily not allowed, so that it seems it should be obliged to receive at least an acknowledgement by UEFA/the IFA that it may do so in succession to the former DCFC, if not a brand new authorisation all of its own.

...I would not suggest that the IFA force DCFC to rejoin the IL "or else", at least without good reason.
But neither do I accept that they should just ignore what is going on at one of their (former?) Member clubs, either...

For if we really are talking about a new club, then the onus should not be on the IFA to show why it (club) may not play in another jurisdiction, rather it should be on the new club to show how/why it may.

If (either) DCFC is to play in the LOI next year, they have to be a member of their "home" National Association - in this case, the IFA.

And the IFA are liable to want to know exactly which "DCFC" is applying to join (or renew with) them - there is the little matter of debts to other IFA Members clubs to consider, after all.

You've made your point. Repeating yourself over and over and over to provoke a reaction is trolling.

[EalingGreen]

The same legal constraints don't seem to bother you in relation to Derry City.

If I posted what I (ahem) "strongly suspect" to be the case as regards Omagh Town, it would risk getting this forum closed down.

Where have I ever posted anything regarding DCFC which could be considered even remotely actionable?

One rule for one a different one for the rest. Usual story as far as the IFA/IL goes in relation to Derry City.

How so?
The IL didn't want DCFC in the IL back in the 1980's, so they weren't voted back in. Similarly, the IFA/IL didn't want OTFC*, in any shape or form, back in the IL, so no effort was made to get them back in.
You might have mentioned Portadown's application for membership of the Prem being rejected by the IFA solely for being submitted 29 minutes late, or Donegal Celtic's application being outscored by other clubs considered less "attractive"/"justified".
How is any of that "one rule for one a different one for the rest"?

You seem to like to dish it out but don't like getting it back.

Dishing "what" out, exactly? Snide personal remarks? Refusing to answer direct questions? Don't think so, somehow.
As for "getting it back", I am not the one who keeps avoiding the issues in my posts.

You know where you can go if you don't like it...

Who's the one "who can't take it" now, then? Classy, real classy.

Anyhow, one of the reasons I like this forum is that it is well moderated; if I post anything which is out-of-order, it will be the Mods who direct me elsewhere, not some aggrieved poster who seemingly cannot bear to be reminded of certain uncomfortable truths about the team he supports.

* - Whatever point ANMouse was trying to make in his garbled post, his reference to OTFC made no supporting sense at all.

[EalingGreen]

The individuals who have departed the club with their reputations in tatters?

Why exactly would any store be placed in what they said.

The FAI raised the issue of the IL creditors last week at the meetings that were held. No one is ignoring anything. But sure you keep shouting away.

Note to DCFC Steve, ORA and others:
The above is an answer to a point which has been raised, whether it be a good reply or otherwise. It is such responses which allow for proper discussion on a message board.
Refusing to answer direct questions and choosing instead to make sarcastic remarks, or accusing the questioner of being repetitive or disruptive etc, even though he is merely trying to elicit a reply, does not.