Bloody clueless. This is what we have to put up with in Ireland. A League of Ireland legend but he's still so comfortable in his job he doesn't bother watching players.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Bloody clueless. This is what we have to put up with in Ireland. A League of Ireland legend but he's still so comfortable in his job he doesn't bother watching players.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Ha, I am also reading this without knowing the result, as was travelling back to Basel last night. Let me guess 6-1?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Well that was embarrassing.
Few of our crosses nearly went out for throws.
Seemed every time they were in the final 3rd, they found the back of the net. Didn't even think they looked that impressive, apart from one quality move. Ronaldo hardly influenced the game.
End of season friendly, some B teamers, but still depressing this new element we've added to our game in the last couple years of losing by 4-5 goals.
Question. If we ask nicely, will FIFA just remove us from their rankings altogether?
We've had that in the past too tbf, not that it's happened that often. But it does rather feel as if the wilderness years have started early...Quote:
Originally Posted by boysingreen
Looking at the team, why wasn't a fully fit SSL in the squad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Wasn't it mentioned in the media that SSL had told MON he was fit?
Wilson isn't a CB, if MON doesn't bring back SSL and Richie for the qualifiers, then he can forget his Honeymoon as we will be calling for his Divorce.
I thought he took note of Pearce's name from the back of his shirt, presumably to look for him later to swap with?? That was my theory anyway. I doubt Roy Keane was too enamored by that though. What was it he once said about players being more interested in swapping tops? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I had to get up again myself fairly early, but I did get a decent enough rest having managed to drift off to sleep after the game pretty quickly. Instead of counting sheep, I just counted Portuguese goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Edit: Actually, on second thoughts, I think that was a nightmare. I'd been wondering why I had a dull headache this morn...
Looking at the last few games, Ireland remind me of Sunderland under MON. No creative spark, dull out-dated tactics and a team that look knackered after 60mins.
Did he say that? I thought he gave him and Meyler credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
The first half was the worst performance i think ive ever seen from ireland, hoolohan about the only one coming out ok.
Portugal were italy with a will to win and took the game to us, they scored and won 5-1. Very similar midfield etc but got nowhere near them. Thats exactly why i didnt pay any heed to the Italy game.
Ward is god awful. first 4 touches of the ball and 1 creates a goal.
Fleming saying Forde was slow to come out for the 5th. He was, but i also think he was very poor for a few of the goals, and you cant be unlucky 3 times in a row fleming said that too after mcintyre kept saying it. He missed some good saves.
I mentioned around the time of the Italy game, that the point(the real point of what you can take from them) of these friendlies is very little other than understanding and consitency but that its very disappointing to have players pulling out, now we have a whole load of different players who wont be playing together and no real cohesion or understanding amongst a first team. Its a shame.
I'm very worried for us if any of the first 11 are injured/missing.
I don't really get that, Kerr did the Italian match and praised Hendrick. He did make some reference to Hendrick not being great in that U21 game I think and wasn't as glowing in his recognition as Andrews or Kilbane. In Hendrick's defence, he wasn't long back from injury for that U21 game. He's better offensively than defensively too, maybe being one of the two holding players isn't his best role? I remember he was ineffective there when Leicester hammered Derby a few months back also. Obviously either himself or Meyler are only keeping that spot warm for James McCarthy anyway and possibly Gibson also. I'd like to see Hendrick as part of the attacking three at some stage with less defensive responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I write a lot of posts on mobile on here now, its a balls the phone doesnt change the spelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think that's the worst we've been since the infamous night in Cyprus under Stan and it runs that pretty close. I know we lost badly to the Germans at home, but IMO that German team was a fair bit better than the Portgual team last night. To put it into context Portugal haven't had a better result in the last 2-3 years. In that time they've played teams like Gabon, Luxembourg, Panama, Poland, Azerbaijan and Greece and haven't been able to win by such margins (some of those games they have even drawn). The only result on a par with last night is their 5-1 home win over Cameroon three months ago.
We looked all over the place in terms of defensive organisation, I didn't think we could ever look worse at ball retention (by our defenders) than the games at the Euros under Trap, but kudos to MoN, he's surpassed that level - some miracle worker. There is no real attacking invention despite having a squad with a good degree of experience and reasonable talent. Keane and McGeady have played quite a few CL/EL games, McClean played in the EL this season, Walters scored in the EL (against Besiktas?) a few years ago, Meyler and Hoolahan are proven premier league players. I'm not saying these players are world beaters, but they have played football at fairly high level for many years, some of them playing in Europe, some in domestic cup finals; they should be able to better than going down 5-1 to Portugal or, more worryingly, score more than 3-4 goals (and not that many chances) in the Turkey, Portugal, Costa Rica, Italy and Serbia games. When they said the football would improve and we'd see slick passing moves under Trap's successor I didn't think they were talking about the opposition. To say the honeymoon period is over is an understatement, our remaining matches this year are:
Oman (H Friendly)
Georgia (A Qual)
Gibraltar (H Qual)
Germany (A Qual)
Scotland (A Qual)
If we take Oman out of the equation as it's a friendly (and one which in all honesty we should win), how many points do we think is a reasonable target from those remaining 4 games? I'd hope for around 7 (W,W,L,D) or if we were unlucky 6 (W,W,L,L) but after all the recent results under MoN I think we may be looking at 3 (L,W,L,L) or 4 (D,W,L,L) which would leave us struggling for third place. Less than 3 points and I'd fear we would have Stan Mk2 on our hands.
Italians?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
He looks like a serial killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I think two or 3 players are becoming indispensable, including both our first choice full backs.
Kerr made a very good point last night. We don't need to be able to stand toe to toe with the likes of Portugal. Qualification depends on being better than Scotland and Poland. With our best players available we do still have enough quality to have a good chance of doing that.
Anyway, off the top of my head here's my squad assessment after these 4 games:
Goalkeepers: we can only hope the confident Forde of Stockholm and Cologne turns up, or Westwood gets properly fit again.
Full backs: Coleman and Wilson indispensable. Kelly not good enough, Ward positively dangerous. A real shame Clark never got a run out at left back.
Centre backs: O'Shea a shoo in. Dunne likely to be needed. Delaney has secured his place in the pecking order. SSL must get a good club. Wilson needed at LB. Clark still has much to prove. Pearse has time to improve. Keogh is game but will be exposed by good opponents. McShane still deserves a place on the bench if fit.
Midfield: McCarthy is main man. Meyler and Hendrick benefited from these games. Gibson likely to enhance options. Whelan has gone sideways in the pecking order, maybe a step back (does he do anything else?:) ). Wes is essential. Reid will also have something to offer.
Wide men: McGeady is playing well under O'Neill and is a nailed-on starter. Pilkington is a find. McClean is what he is, and will remain close to the first XI. Brady has everything to play for.
Forwards: I think Doyle was the clear winner. Long must fight hard. Robbie will be a bench option in the main. Cox and Sammon will struggle for selection. Walters to remain as a sub. McGoldrick might have a chance.
System: 4231 with Wes in the team seems better than 442.
Manager: hard to tell. It'd be ridiculous to start asking questions. He's trying new players and new things. The qualification results will be the evidence.
In fairness what did you really expect from last night. Portugal playing their last warm up game with the World Cup one week away against an Irish team many whose better players are on holidays and those very average players that played last night thinking of their holidays. It's totally irrelevent that Portugal beat Ireland by more than they beat the likes of Gabon and Luxembourg. We'll be competitive in the qualifiers and in the mix but I think we may have to wait awhile before we qualify for another Euro or World Cup. No matter what way you look at it we have a very average squad and you hope O'Neill and Keane can work on other factors i.e. organisation/fight/spirit to give us a chance in the Euro qualifiers.
Maybe Dunne and potentially Doyle returning to the PL is a bigger boost than we felt at the time. Dunne, in particular, could be vital for us yet. Great that O'Shea and Sunderland stayed up too really. Keogh and Pearce could possibly do a job on a given day but it's been a massive step up for both and we certainly won't get away with both playing at the same time against decent opposition.
Lots of excuses on here in an attempt to paper over what was an awful team performance.
Players losing the ball in the middle of the pitch.
Our defence all over the place, I don't buy into this "it's a new back four, they need to get used to each other"
Yes you need to work as a unit, but these are professional footballers who should at least be able to do the basics of defending.
Take QPRs player of the season Keogh, constantly out of position, not watching his man, getting attracted to the ball, when he should be tracking his man and getting himself into a position to win the ball.
Pearce, Ward and Kelly guilty of this too.
Portugal are a decent side, but if you are organised and do your job you have a chance.
Mr Trapattoni's organisation made us competitive, with a chance of being successful.
Admittedly the last campaign was one too many as teams worked us out.
But at any level you need to be organised and players need to at least do the basic things well.
Let's all go away over the summer, drink beer, kiss women, watch the World Cup and come back ready and fired up for the Euro campaign.
COYBIG
Who said that? I think the general consensus was that "it's a poor back four, hopefully we won't need them to get used to each other".Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Norm Iron looked better organised with players of not much better standard, if at all.
Regardless of what Paul says, Italy was definitely positive. Costa Rica and Turkey were good in parts I suppose. The face-saving aspect of Portugal is that there is just no chance we'd have to field such a weak side in any competitive game. Even if we're unlucky with injuries we have better players to come back in.
Doc, apart from trying to kiss girls, will you be featuring in the transfer gossip sections anytime soon?
Surprised at some of the quasi-vitriol on here. Despite the score I thought we looked pretty handy in midfield without ever threatening. 5 in the middle gave us plenty of the ball but of course isolated Walters who, somewhat ironically (since I see him as a more of a target man), became sort've redundant. If only Wes had been playing the last five years, he's like having two players compared to whelan's .5
When it went 442 in the second half the writing was on the wall. Ostensibly more of an attacking threat from us (never materialised - Robbie dove looking for a push in the back free and it was 5-1) but huyuuuge spaces through a tiring midfield. Tough muggy conditions for paddies to boot. In short I'd rather watch ten of these friendly to kings than a string of trap nil alls
I thought it was about a 3-1 game but the chaotic substitutions effectively turned it into a drubbing for Ireland, especially the ones before Portugal's 4th, the subs made had transformed us into a shapeless mess. I would have expected better from O'Neill to have an idea how to make the changes and keep a reasonable effective shape, especially when he says he was keen to reduce the deficit.That for me was the most disappointing aspect and brought up an old failing from O'Neill to rear its ugly head.
When asked on 2 occasions what we should do, Curtis Fleming (co commentator) suggested 'we should get stuck in'. Thankfully we are still trying something different, playing football for an hour against a finely tuned classy team and persisted despite the string of poor mistakes. For an hour we didn't lump it, put up the barricades and depend upon heroic performances from the centre halves. Instead we matched Portugal for passes made, where Hoolahan was relentless, a dynamo, taking up good positions, making himself available. Other players will come in to the team and maybe Wes will last long enough for the qualifiers.
I heard that Ward was drafted in from his holidays to replace an injured Wilson.
The goals from last night are here.
Geysir, when was the awful trip to Trinidad and Brazil? Did it immediately precede the more than respectable WC82 campaign?
I agree. I don't think we should be getting hysterical. The team we had out last night for the last 15 minutes was quite literally nuts. I'm confident that if was anywhere near a competitive match we'd give a much better account. I actually think we were much worse against Costa Rica.Quote:
Originally Posted by ken foree
The only worrying thing is momentum and confidence. People can moan about Trap, but he used friendlies to drill 'the system' and was happy with 0-0 draws because the team were boosted by not losing and not conceding. It gave the defence confidence. We need that back asap.
True, but lest we forget we had some pretty poor reverses in Trap's friendlies too. Australia stands out.
I expected us to at least compete with them, I'd have been more than happy with a draw and I wouldnt have been too upset if we'd lost by the odd goal - we lost 2-0 to Spain in America a few years ago. I really hoped we wouldnt crumble like that - we were made to look like rank amateurs against a team that didn't even top their qualification group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto
They didn't beat Gabon they drew 2-2. That's the point Robbie, this Portugal team, while good, is on fairly indifferent form and hasn't steam-rolled teams like say Spain or Germany have, yet they steam-rolled us.Quote:
Portugal playing their last warm up game with the World Cup one week away against an Irish team many whose better players are on holidays and those very average players that played last night thinking of their holidays. It's totally irrelevent that Portugal beat Ireland by more than they beat the likes of Gabon and Luxembourg.
I fear we won't be competitive and think we will be lucky to get third and then might need to get lucky in a play-off. There is a slight paradox in your post Robbie, you say we will "be competitive and in the mix", yet we also "may have to wait awhile before we qualify for another Euro". The thing is we are in a group of 6, if we finish 1st or 2nd we'll qualify, if we finish 3rd we may qualify directly (best 3rd place) or then we have a 50:50 play off against another 3rd placed team. 60% of the teams will make at least a playoff and 40% will make the actual tournament, there has never been an easier time to make a tournament, if were in any way "competitive and in the mix" we will make it, but on current form I cant see that happening.Quote:
We'll be competitive in the qualifiers and in the mix but I think we may have to wait awhile before we qualify for another Euro or World Cup. No matter what way you look at it we have a very average squad and you hope O'Neill and Keane can work on other factors i.e. organisation/fight/spirit to give us a chance in the Euro qualifiers.
No historic straws to clutch, that tour happened around the Falklands war 1982 and just before the 1984 qual campaign which fizzled out early in Oslo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Surely you are not comparing this summer tour to that one?
They wern't all consistent, granted, but Trap never ended a game with four strikers either. He treated friendlies fairly seriously but the scope for experimentation was limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
That's something none of us liked about Trap, but here we are with a manager who is pretty much throwing a kitchen sink at friendlies. I know we'd all like to tow a line between experimentation and getting humped, but that's what going to happen sometimes. Clearly that's just MON's way. It remains to be seen whether it's a good idea or not but without it, there's no way Wes Hoolahan would have had the chance to play himself into our starting XI.
Australia was pretty bad, 3-0 from what I remember, but to a degree (at the time) it was isolated - we didn't lose another match that year which included competitive games against Italy (a), Montenegro and Bulgaria (a). The worry is we haven't looked like winning a game since Serbia and we've looked a bit naive. It's worth pointing out we had some good friendly results under Trap too, beating Italy in Liege, beating Colombia (neutral) and then beating Paraguay just before they got the QFs of the World Cup (and gave Spain their biggest scare), beating Bosnia as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Me?? Probably not!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88;
SSL? Done deal, very good club
Doc, do you think it is even ethical for fans to watch this world cup?
"If it's not the Saint, it's not morally reputable." - L Doc Hubbard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
----------------Westwood-------------
Coleman-----O'Shea---Dunne-----Wilson
----------Gibson------McCarthy--------
---Hendrick----Hoolahan----McGeady---
------------------Long-----------------
Probably Keane instead of Long for the easier looking games but I'd say this would be our best side.
You would want cox in there next to long.
Was that the 7-0 against brazil trip?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
If only long could finish consistently - decent looking side all the sameQuote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
But I fear greatly our striking options without keano
At first, I wasn't sure about Hendrick in that position because he's not necessarily a winger but it makes sense from the perspective that Coleman would be directly behind him, providing plenty width and allowing Hendrick to tuck in and push Hoolahan further forward (Gibson too if he fancies it).Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Few decent options off the bench in Meyler, Keane, Doyle, Delaney, McClean and Pilkington on the basis of that side.
Lest we forget about Robbie Brady too. He should be at full throttle come August and he showed glimpses of real quality in his first (half-) season in the Premiership. Still only 22.