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Originally Posted by Geysir
You do not see any difference to the "stand up for the Ulstermen" chant? Taken in context with all the trappings, the indications are that it is a team followed primarily by the Protestant/Unionist people
No, I don't see a difference. 'Ulstermen' scans and in any case anyone interested knows that most of the fans are likely to be unionists. They don't sing 'Ulstermen' to show how unionist they are.
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Originally Posted by Not Brazil
PS. Wasn't Jake Burns of SLF a big Northern Ireland fan - appearing on TOTP once upon a time in his Northern Ireland shirt? Maybe I'm mistaken
Burns was and is a big NI fan. He was in town the other day for a book launch. A muso mate of mine went along, hoping that now-Minneapolis-based and Crues-supporting guitarist Henry Cluney would show and buy a drink for the first time since 1983. He didn't, alas.
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Originally Posted by BYC
I think you will find it has gone on long before the 80's. I agree re 1993, the Ole Ole's were shocked to find a hostile atmosphere and locals who didn't buy into the 'best fans in the world' rubbish
Most would accept that the atmosphere at NI games is better now than it was in the 80s or 70s. I'm less bothered about before that time, I wasn't going. It's pretty much ancient history.
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I disagree. The two largest and most successfull clubs from Irelands two largest cities is going to have a spark most other games won't
Up to a point. Arsenal v Rangers (ie the two largest and most successful clubs from Britain's two largest cities) doesn't have that spark, largely because it isn't a derby.
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Originally Posted by Dan the Man
FAI scouts will rightly appear more and more in the north. OWC fans need to let that go. The Gentleman's agreement never had any relevance
The FAI can scout where they like. We need a new mutual agreement that prevents either side picking players who have already appeared for the other as adults.
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If there was an All Ireland team, noone in GB would blink. Most would probably favour it...It does not affect Wales/Scotland fans in any way
I think you were right the first time, most British fans would be indifferent, it wouldn't directly affect them. I see no reason that they'd be particularly in favor. But you're daydreaming, it isn't going to happen without mutual support in Ireland. Which doesn't exist.
But to dwell for a moment on Wales and Scotland (as you have). You can't on the one hand cite FIFA/ the rest-of-the-World's supposed opposition to Britain's having four international sides as evidence of the inevitable push to an all-Ireland side (as many on the thread have done), and then blithely assume the Scots and Welsh will back you. One doesn't follow from the other, in fact they directly contradict.
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NI is a place apart in all things, including football
More empty cliche. NI has many singular and unique traits to those of us from there, but your persistent assumption that the rest of UEFA are particularly engaged by them doesn't follow. They aren't bothered. They've been playing for us for a century and plan to keep doing so.
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The IFA should issue a statement that they are stopping opposition to letting the future Darren Gibsons playing for the ROI, no apology needed for their behaviour just lets move on
See above and the need for a new mutual agreement.
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There is no onus on the FAI to change anthems or flags as none are contentious. The issues are all up north
OK, I've no problem with the South's anthem or flag and I'd like a new anthem at NI games. We disagree about the extent to which it's a hot issue.
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Anyone who brings a UJ to Windsor Park should be thrown out
Slight over-reaction, eh?
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I totally disagree with them when they say they have to consider the views of fans who wish to keep it
Point taken. Resistance from those opposed to change needn't always be pandered to, of course- if what they were defending was some horrible racist ditty, say. But it isn't. So evolution rather than revolution (although I'd prefer us to install Gloria or Alternative Ulster as the new anthem tomorrow).
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The people of NI have a right to know why this is not the case, not just NI fans
If you're that bothered, take it up with your assemblyman/ woman. And s/he'll say, quote "I'd love to help Dan, but there's no chance of a vote".
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As stated, only England and NI do not have their own anthem. And only NI's is contentoius...Playing a UK anthem while campainging against a UK team is a bit silly no
I understand why you think it silly, but it's easily explained. We'd prefer both to remain part of a united Britain (as for centuries) while having a separate NI team (as for a century). No contradiction there, and actually your interest looks a bit obsessive.
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It is very relevant NI and ROI are not foreign under UK law. I'll not explain again
Fine, don't. It was irrelevant the first time. Everyone recognises there's a border.
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The FAI was forced to be set up after the bigotted IFA made life impossible for the Dublin clubs
For God's sake man, get over it, it was 90 years ago! Nobody forced the FAI to do anythng, it was their choice.
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NI and the ROI merging are no the same as Germany and China merging. Only a loyalist bigot would make such a stupid analogy, ffs grow up
Equally, try not to be so excitable, and don't assume everyone who disagrees with you is loyalist bigot. There's no chance of the two merging, so to that limited extent at least there's a parallel.
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Saying the IFA are orange tinted is hardly inaccurate. Their chairman is an Orangeman. He was elected by people who knew the image that would send out. This hardly looks good if they are trying to implement a FFA campaign. Saying it is orange tinted and nearly there are hardly contradictions either. The IFA used to be very orange now its somewhat orange. One day it may be neutral? Not difficult to grasp
I've no time for the Orange Order and (separately) I think Raymond Kennedy is a bit lacklustre. It doesn't follow that the IFA is orange-tinted any more than Delaney's antics mean the FAI and their team's followers are deluded fantasists.
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Linfield have sorted themselves out, but when that deal is gone we can move on
We're moving on already.
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The OWC website is much less open to debate than this one. The tern taigs is not used, but beggars is
They're equally open to debate. Without wanting to trade too much 'whataboutery', we're on a 1000 post thread full of people who want to abolish another country's team for what can't be more than vindictive reasons. What sort of a debate is that?
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Ironic for a state maintained by the public sector (ie English taxpayer)!
Ha ha. And the relevance of that being what exactly? Look, I don't like and don't use the term beggars. It's relevance to British government finance generally is a bit limited, no?
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The NI fans group is mainly a closed shop. The have a section for "mainlanders" ffs!
It isn't; so what? That's where they (including me) live. Spare us the pretend surprise/ outrage.
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Their £5 donation goes straight to the UVF
Well I laughed. But you need to work on some of the other material.
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There is a strong, separate, case for an AIL. One club e.g Linfield should not be able to stop this should the clubs desire it
If Linfield don't want to join it, it almost certainly won't happen as Glentoran and other NI clubs wouldn't join either.
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I presume you are suitably thankful to the Free State for sending ambulances & fire engines etc. to save Belfast and to Dev for persuading Hitler to stop bombing our people there (since the RAF couldn't be arsed defending them
Yes, the people of Belfast were grateful then and since. I remember it being mentioned after the Stardust nightclub fire in Artane in 1981, when the Belfast brigade drove South to help their Dublin colleagues.
De Valera wasn't entirely successful in persuading Hitler not to bomb Dublin, btw.
