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I'm not worried in the slightest.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You play your games wherever you like.
We'll be playing ours at a re-developed Windsor Park.
The Maze site may be still free, but it will not be hosting Interntional football matches.
No need - it'll continue to be called Northern Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You still haven't answered his point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
If all they wanted was an improved chance of qualifying then their best bet would be wanting an all UK team, not an AI one. So again what's in it for them?
Im from Munster, but Id have no interest in an All Munster football team, Im sure neither would Limerick or Waterford. Why would being Irish mean they'd want an AI team.
We know you'd prefer an AI team, and apparently improving the chances of winning is the only thing that matters, but to some THEIR team is precious and they aren't going to give it up to make you, or anyone down here, happy.
There's absolutely nothing in it for them and yet you continue to imply that it's wrong of them not to want it.
Very strange logic.
But they keep telling us they're 'Irish'.
If anyone's logic is :rolleyes: strange, it's being in 'denial' about that.
Surely an 'increased chance of qualifying or Finals participation' is worth the leap of such 'logic'.
As pointed above, which you and others continually ignore, AI teams are now making an impact on the world stage.
And has anyone asked their fans, who'd they prefer if it comes to it? Us or a Brit.XI which would be a 'de facto' England team....
Again, you miss micls's point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Northern Ireland fans are not interested in merging with EITHER the Republic Of Ireland or the rest of the UK.
Your question simply does not arise, and nor will it be arising for the foreseeable future.
We know :rolleyes: you're not, but no reason why we can't hypothesize though.
And whilst you claim it's going to last for 'hundreds of years' I reckon those :rolleyes: 'nice' people at FIFA might well ultimately see it differently.
;)
What's the point in Northern Ireland fans hypothesizing about something that they don't want?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
We've much more important things to hypothesize about.
Luckily for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
There are bound to be Northern Ireland fans who would consider an all-Ireland team and I'm fairly sure that there is a sizeable section of Northern Ireland society that would also like to see an all-Ireland team - these people should surely hypothesize. Of course, as has been pointed out previously, some of Northern Ireland's greatest players have been advocates of the idea too and I reckon there's a chance some of their current players may also be advocates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Very few fans Predator - amongst our block bookers, I would reckon that figure would be <5%. Either way, nowhere near a majority, or even a meaningful minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Northern Irish society can hypothesize all they like - it'll not make a button of difference.
Indeed, a few of our "greatest players" have been advocates of the idea - I think most of our journeymen (ie. the vast majority) would not have been so keen - they would have lost out on an International career.
I would be struggling to think of any advocates in the current squad - I say that on the basis that only three or four of our players would be in a combined squad, and, of those, I don't think any would be advocates.
Furthermore, there is an All Ireland team - anyone in Northern Ireland who wishes to play for it, is welcome to do so.
You seem very sure of this. Even if 5% thought it was worthwhile, it's worth discussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Not sure if a majority of Irish people on here would be, but a majority of active Ireland fans would be overall.
Why do we always need to go political about it?
For football's sake on this island it makes sense to have an AIL and an AI National team.Better pool of talent, greater access to Capital funding, yeah sure the economies in the ****s now but it'll recover in time, in short time.
Look at rugby, we're one of the worlds best teams....Ireland! up there with the best.
Irelands call is always majestically roared out in Croker, and soon to be Lansdowne.
I would be pretty sure of it...I said < 5%.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You keep discussing it all you like...there is nothing in it at all for the IFA or the overwhelming majority of supporters of the Northern Ireland International team.
You'd be better served just getting on with supporting your All Ireland team, instead of trying to engage in hypothetical nonsense.
I dare say if a lot of Northern Ireland fans were to look at your comments on the issue here, it wouldn't serve to persuade them.:D
I'm not being "political" about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickcule
I simply don't wish to see a team I've supported passionately for a lifetime disappear - that would be the view of the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland supporters.
For the umptenth time, you have an All Ireland National team.
Why can't you just accept the choice of those who support a different Irish team to have nothing to do with it?:confused:
For rugby?Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickcule
So what?:confused:
Imagine that in football, it'd be class.Look Not Brazil i respect your views i really do but in footballs sake i mean do you not agree that on the international front we could progress far further than both sides currently do now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
If you say so. But it's not nonsense and while there's a potential to do so, we'll be carrying on discussing. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
If you don't like it, why even come on here if it's so painful to contemplate?
Whatever about the actual number of all-Ireland team advocates in the current set of NI fans, surely Northern Irish society should have a big say? After all, the IFA and the NI team purport to represent Northern Ireland (and by extension, obviously its people... and strangely, according to the Anthem, England :p) on the international stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Granted, there are players that would likely miss out on an international career, but leaving aside the implications on current and past squads, I'd say some players might promote such an idea for the future generations of footballers on the island, since there are a fair few possible positives in it.Quote:
Indeed, a few of our "greatest players" have been advocates of the idea - I think most of our journeymen (ie. the vast majority) would not have been so keen - they would have lost out on an International career.
I would be struggling to think of any advocates in the current squad - I say that on the basis that only three or four of our players would be in a combined squad, and, of those, I don't think any would be advocates.
Somehow I don't think NI fans would welcome people from NI deciding to play for the 'All Ireland team'... :eek:Quote:
Furthermore, there is an All Ireland team - anyone in Northern Ireland who wishes to play for it, is welcome to do so.
Technically of course, the FAI can choose players from anywhere on the island, but while there will be players from the North who decide to play for the Republic, there will also be players who don't wish to play for the Republic (due perhaps to their backgrounds). This situation doesn't exactly help NI's chances of retaining the best players within their boundaries, as you well know. You're obviously aware of the possible positive implications of an All-Ireland team and it would not simply mean the end of a team for you (and other people from Northern Ireland) to support. Could you truly not bring yourself to roar on a team containing a few lads from Belfast, Derry and Newry, as well as lads from Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Galway? Is it that abhorrent?
I welcome your and GR's input. It's important that both sets of fans discuss such things. I've read some threads on OWC though, that are disheartening, in that they simply ridicule the idea and deny it any space to develop, but for obvious reasons I understand.
This is the problem. Sure it's a generalisation, but it seems the majority of NI supporters see a Whole of Ireland team as the loss of something, whereas the the majority of ROI supporters would see it as the gaining of a (potentially) better team that would have a better chance of advancement in European Championship and World Cup qualifiers, even if it meant the team known as "The Republic of Ireland" no longer existed. We could live with that. I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Would it be so bad if the team was called, say, The Republic and Northern Ireland, or some variation/combination? It seems to work for Bosnia and Herzegovina.
I would think I speak for the majority of ROI supporters in saying that "getting one over" on NI supporters, or somehow trying to "abolish" their team is not the motivation here.
We could probably "progess" more as part of an All UK team, but I'm equally unsupportive of such a move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickcule
I'm a Northern Ireland supporter - for better, or worse.
Please, carry on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Discuss all you like.
As the (hypothetical) question directly involves the future of theteam I support, I think it reasonable that I contribute my views on the matter.
It's not a case of being "painful", it's just that it's not happening.
Firstly, the team represents the Irish Football Association (A Company, and member of FIFA). It's the IFA, it's International team supporters, and FIFA who have the say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Sainsbury's may wish they could be merged with Tescos - many consumers might like that too. However, the Management of Sainsburys and Tescos are the decision makers on the issue.
Secondly, I would much rather support a team consisting of players from (or eligible to play for) Northern Ireland. I have little or no affinity with players from Dublin, Cork, Galway, or Donegal.
It, therefore, is not something I could passionately "roar on".
Again, I ask why can't you respect the choice of those who wish to play for/support Northern Ireland?
Why not just keep two teams, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - teams that we're equally as proud of and passionate about?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ramondo
But as keeps being mentioned and you seem unwilling/ unable to grasp, there's already an effective united Ireland side, one that can and does choose players from all across the 32 counties, not to mention Glasgow, Lancashire, Nottinghamshire and Birmingham. So in practice no-one needs to hypothesise. It'd be like hypothesising about it raining in Aughnacloy next week. Given that, there's no reason to get rid of the existing NI side. You'll struggle to find a single current player in favor of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
International football is necessarily political; you can't get much more politically provocative than calling to abolish the NI international side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickule
If you want a bigger pool of talent, pick even more Brits in your team and stop whining? Or daydream, like you're doing about economic recovery short-term.Quote:
For football's sake on this island it makes sense to have an AIL and an AI National team.Better pool of talent, greater access to Capital funding, yeah sure the economies in the ****s now but it'll recover in time, in short time
If you love rugby union so much, watch it instead.Quote:
Look at rugby, we're one of the worlds best teams....Ireland! up there with the best. Irelands call is always majestically roared out in Croker, and soon to be Lansdowne
No, I think we'd still be mediocre in the mid- to long-term. Look at the records. NI had an excellent squad in the early and mid 80s, you ditto for a longer period from the mid 80s to mid 90s. Both teams have been decidely third rate for much of the time since, and arguably for decades beforehand. A notional team with six million population and one or two part-time leagues to call on isn't necessarily going to see off Norway, Scotland or Switzerland in European qualifiers, let alone the really big teams.Quote:
in footballs sake i mean do you not agree that on the international front we could progress far further than both sides currently do now?
Why not test it yourself? Stand for Derry City Council/ Stormont/ Westminster/ Dail Eireann via Donegal NE/ the European Parliament on a single issue 'let's abolish the NI team' ticket. You'll romp home, I don't think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
There are no postivies in it for us (NI fans), and no need for you (RoI fans, including players within that group). Ergo there's no realistic likelihood of it happening.Quote:
I'd say some players might promote such an idea for the future generations of footballers on the island, since there are a fair few possible positives in it
Come on Pred, you can do better than that. It's about YOU wanting to effectively abolish our team, not our unwillingness to embrace players from the South. Go back up-thread and you'll see that as a cricket fan I support an Ireland side recently including three players from Dublin, as well as others originally from Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan ;)Quote:
Could you truly not bring yourself to roar on a team containing a few lads from Belfast, Derry and Newry, as well as lads from Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Galway? Is it that abhorrent
I'm ridiculing it here, it's ridiculous, irritating and mildly offensive.Quote:
I've read some threads on OWC though, that are disheartening, in that they simply ridicule the idea and deny it any space to develop, but for obvious reasons I understand
The team would be called Ireland, just as you call yours now. It would play almost all games in the South, with tricolors waving and the Soldiers' Song played every time your president attended. Many of your fans, media etc. would regard it, quite logically as a takeover of our team losing your team nothing. For the 42nd time on this thread alone, we're not interested!Quote:
Originally Posted by ramondo
I've no idea what proportion of RoI supporters agree with you, but whatever it is you are simply wrong. There's no other plausible explanation for getting rid of NI's team when a perfectly adequate all-Ireland-plus-numerous-diaspora-from-Britain side already exists.Quote:
I would think I speak for the majority of ROI supporters in saying that "getting one over" on NI supporters, or somehow trying to "abolish" their team is not the motivation here
Here here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Why do you keep "digging" at the fact that the ROI picks 2nd and 3rd generation Irish? It has nothing to do with the discussion re: merging the two associations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I'm digging to answer your (plural) digging, and because it IS relevant to the point. If you're claiming that the main motivation is to have a united Ireland team with access to a 32-county plus diaspora playing pool (as opposed to just stirring to irritate NI fans), then I'm merely reminding you that your current team has three Englishmen, a Scot and a guy from Derry in it. You don't need to merge any associations to maintain- or even increase- that proportion.Quote:
Originally Posted by boovidge
Actually Taylor doesn't claim to be third generation (or any generation at all) Northern Irish. He and the IFA exploited the rules as they were then.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
But there's a huge difference. I'm not arguing to abolish the RoI team just so we can bring in Joe Murphy or Kieren Westwood when Taylor and Given retire.
The 'inordinate power' is just your opinion. The IFA has a vote in FIFA and UEFA, just like Liechtenstein or Andorra. And like the English, Scots and Welsh we have an ex-officio place on the international board (basically a committee that reviews the laws of the game and the like). There's no inherent reason for this perk continuing and I'd have no problem if it disappeared tomorrow. But you're mising- perhaps deliberately- the point; the IFA and NI side will continue to exist because that's what 100% of its fans want. It has little to do with the blazers- although if it did, the argument would presumably apply equally to your own blazers in the FAI?Quote:
the fact the IFA are a 'home nation' with inordinate power for their size means the blazers in Belfast will never give up their perks, and why would they
I'm not really interested in the political side of an AIL (which I think is the vast majoriy of the desire for it), but I'm not convinced it would do much to imporve the standard of football (or more to the point, there are lots of other things far more feasible that would have a better impact on the standard of LOI football).
The NI fans on here (mostly) don't want to merge with the FAI, or indeed, anybody. I can't see any real reson to make them.
I'm in favor of the Setanta cup or similar (it would be a shame if it petered out before Crusaders' recent mini-revival). If it attracted sustained interest (large crowds, new sponsors and the rest) over say five years, then we could consider expanding it into a league structure. Until then, as you say, let's concentrate on improving the existing leagues.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Each to their own.Quote:
Secondly, I would much rather support a team consisting of players from (or eligible to play for) Northern Ireland. I have little or no affinity with players from Dublin, Cork, Galway, or Donegal.
It, therefore, is not something I could passionately "roar on".
I do respect the choice of those people, but that does not preclude me from discussing a hypothetical situation, however ridiculous it might seem to some.Quote:
Again, I ask why can't you respect the choice of those who wish to play for/support Northern Ireland?
As I've said, I acknowledge that there is an effective united Ireland team, but it's not the same as having one international football entity, as you obviously know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Ha, it would probably be a first! Seriously though, I still think it's an issue which should see the consultation of the population of Northern Ireland (as well as the Republic) as they are all prospective fans.Quote:
Why not test it yourself? Stand for Derry City Council/ Stormont/ Westminster/ Dail Eireann via Donegal NE/ the European Parliament on a single issue 'let's abolish the NI team' ticket. You'll romp home, I don't think.
There are no positives in it for NI fans who are not in favour of a united Ireland team, but for those NI fans (including prospective NI fans) who are in favour, there are positives.Quote:
There are no postivies in it for us (NI fans), and no need for you (RoI fans, including players within that group). Ergo there's no realistic likelihood of it happening.
True, there would be an effective abolition of two teams in favour of one team in this proposition, but that is obviously not solely the issue for some fans. Not Brazil says he would find it difficult to cheer on a united Ireland team as passionately, since he feels little to no affinity to the Republic of Ireland. You don't have that problem though ;)Quote:
Come on Pred, you can do better than that. It's about YOU wanting to effectively abolish our team, not our unwillingness to embrace players from the South. Go back up-thread and you'll see that as a cricket fan I support an Ireland side recently including three players from Dublin, as well as others originally from Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan ;)
Lots of things have been labelled ridiculous in the past, they weren't all necessarily so!Quote:
I'm ridiculing it here, it's ridiculous, irritating and mildly offensive.
42 times huh?! Jaysus. I think it's clear that such a scenario could be avoided if there was an equal amount of input from the IFA and NI fans, but of course, it could be avoided altogether if it wasn't given any credence whatsoever, which is what you and NB have been doing. Then again, maybe it will happen eventually and the lack of input from NI fans would encourage the 'takeover' attitude.Quote:
The team would be called Ireland, just as you call yours now. It would play almost all games in the South, with tricolors waving and the Soldiers' Song played every time your president attended. Many of your fans, media etc. would regard it, quite logically as a takeover of our team losing your team nothing. For the 42nd time on this thread alone, we're not interested!
I still don't see why English and Scottish born players are relevent to the discussion. Any possible merger of the FAI and IFA would not have any bearing on eligibility rules regarding these players whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I'm not in favour of an all Ireland team btw.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what positives could a fan of NI see in the disappearance of NI (as opposed to ROI or a united Ireland team) as a football team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
This is going on the assumption that there are a small number (Not Brazil says under 5%) of NI fans who would be perhaps in favour of an all-Ireland team.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
That would be to say that greater than 95% of Northern Ireland fans OPPOSE any merger with anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I've been a supporter of the Setanta Cup - unfortunately, it has not harnassed anything like the degree of interest some would have thought it might.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Whether that's the set up of the competition, I don't really know.
However, it does nothing to suggest that a LOI + two or three IL Clubs will be the saiour of Club football on this island.
Best to concentrate on improving the existing leagues as you, quite rightly, say.
Except no-one has ever put your equivocal statement to the test....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
And there's no reason why we can't try to re-educate them.
As you keep telling us they're :rolleyes: 'Irish'. Except the majority would say they're not.
This is at the crux of the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Why do you wish to trample all over the desire of the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland fans' to see our International side retain it's autonmomy, especially against a background of the FAI having the pick of the 32 Counties players?
Can you see that this can be perceived as an aggressive attitude, which completely disrespects the right of choice?
A team that represents them and qualifies for Finals periodically. As opposed to once a generation or less. And there should be a mutual benefit hopefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
You put it to the test all to the test all you like - why don't you organise a survey of Northern Ireland block bookers?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Rather than use wee winky smilies (as if I haven't got the mood of Northern Ireland fans bang on the money on the issue) would that not be more practical, and, perhaps, prove me wrong?
You can try and "re-educate" all you like - I would respectfully suggest that attitudes like that expressed in the very first post on this thread, and your subsequent labelling of Unionists (and by your inference, Northern Ireland fans) isn't going to do much "re-educating".
To correct you, I have stated that I'm Irish (and British) - how others amongst the Northern Ireland fan base identify themselves is a matter for their choice.
I refuse to denounce my Irishness because of the myopic view of what that means, espoused by some - I am, afterall, a supporter of the IRISH Football Association's International representative teams.
I would much rather Northern Ireland never qualified again, but still competed as Northern Ireland, than disappear.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I am wholly represented by a team called Northern Ireland - no tweaking of that neccessary, thanks all the same.
Looks like you'll get your wish then. ;)
Though I'm glad you speak for the whole population of N.E. Ulster. They would be very :rolleyes: proud.