Yes, it's been too long! We should start a campaign for a re-match?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
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Yes, it's been too long! We should start a campaign for a re-match?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Good luck with that.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
That's all well and good, but how does that doesn't really deal with the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
How, exactly, does the EL + The Blues and Glens signify the cure for all the problems with the domestic game on the island?
Regarding "bombarding people with it", could that not just apply to the two respective leagues...ie. the two leagues do more to market what they've respectively got?
Unfortunately, we've got too many Premiership, SPL etc fans on the island, who wouldn't set foot inside the ground of their local club. Getting them out of the armchair/bar to watch domestic football is a big ask. :(
I just don't think the answer to that is the EL + The Blues and Glens.
That's more to do with the quality of the 'product' being cr*p.
And the snotty-nosed attitude of fans on all sides.
First off Not Brazil TRY SOME POSITIVITYQuote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
It does not just have to be Linfield and Glentoran. There could be more clubs from NI if they could show that they would have something to contribute to the league. Clubs from the LOI would have to do the exact same thing. I just singled out Linfield and Glentoran as they are clubs with obvious potential.
Surely better clubs playing against one another must drive up standards. Better clubs competing against one another to obtain European places/league championships/better prize money has to produce a better product for the fan too watch.
Lets just say for a minute that I had a magic wand and I could give an all-Ireland league two champions league places and 3/4 Europa league places and much improved television coverage and better prize money for clubs doing well.
Do you think that this would create a greater interest in club football on the Island. Now I am not saying for a minute that these things can be achieved but if they are not aimed for they certainly will not be achieved.
With the clubs in England having the pick of the best young players from all over the world I worry that neither of the FAs will have enough young players developed in England in the future. If the clubs on this island do not get their act together where will young Irish players be developed in the future. (I am getting a bit negative myself here)
If we keep on doing the same old things in the same old way we will continue getting the same old results.
The status quo is broke.
Its time to open up our imaginations and come up with new solutions.
I am willing to listen to all constructive proposals.
seanfhear;Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
If you can manage to come with a viable proposal, I'm sure you'll get constructive responses.
But what the heck, here's my proposal.
I suggest that LOI clubs stop spending money they don't have. End.
Nothing wrong with that suggestion. This is a problem that FAs around the world have. Some wide boys for various reasons spend more money than clubs can afford. This has probably more to do with Company law and I suppose the same can be said of Companies in other "industries" as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
These wide boys know that they are not personally responsible for these debts and are happy to play fast and loose with club finances.
These guys are the kind of hucksters that will let a perfectly viable company go bust if there is more money to be made from letting it go bust.
There were a crowd of crooks running a club in North london approx 20 years ago and every bit of work or service that was done for that club was done at inflated prices so that certain people were looked after. These people did not care that they were bankrupting the club as they were not going to be resposible for the debt and were on some nice little earners.
Anyway to stop clubs spending more money that they have got you would have to reform Capitalism and the people that are partaking in it. Good luck.
Apologies for going way off topic
I would hope that many EL fans would agree with me, but I don't subscribe entirely to "the product is crap" mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
It might be "crap" in comparison to, say, Premiership football, but I have watched many excellent games involving clubs from both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
Have you watched some of the SPL stuff on TV? - it's brutal.
I believe that Sky are very happy with the audiences they get for IL coverage, and have been quite surprised at the "product" on offer.
I broadly support the concept of an AI "Premier" League - I just cannot work out the real benefits of it.
Would it really increase attendances?
Would it damage Clubs outside of it?
Would it place Clubs in even more financial peril?
How would European places be effected?
Just some of the questions I cannot answer.
We have TWO Champions League places on the island.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
We have at least four Europa League places available on the island.
We have regular coverage of live games.
coverage could and should be much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
It would be a big asset to an all Ireland league if we could retain all of these places from one league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Perhaps on the pitch, but the match day experience is very poor. The facilites are terrible, and the experience just isn't sexy enough. Perimeter fences, ramshackle stands, stadiums stuck at the end of pokey terraced streets, parking, sectarianism, dreadful websites, dog-tracks round the pitch, etc etc. The football can be decent enough, but the product is crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
There are signs of life, Crusaders proposals for the Grove for example, but will they ever get off the drawing board? They didn't even manage to rebuild the wall that blew over at the railway end. Just stuck up a bit of fence and left it.
There is plenty wrong with what some think is "sexy" elsewhere - but that's a whole different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
If you want your football "sexy", then the EL or IL is not the place to be.
If you want relatively few overpaid prima donnas, no alice bands, no prawn sandwiches, relatively little gamemanship, and to watch guys giving their all primarily for the love of the game (rather than fortunes)...I think it's ok.
Plenty of progress with stadia being made in Northern Ireland - not finished yet, but it going in the right direction.
Sky's coverage of IL games has been excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
More of the same please....
I just love your positivity!!!! So refreshing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Precisely why would decent facilites, good catering, or toilet blocks that don't smell like something died in them a couple of years back stop the players giving 100%?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
I don't see how something Roy Keane cited as an example about 70,000 people not making much noise applies to the debate when we are talking about teams who get a couple of hundred people through the gates most weeks :rolleyes:
And what is so evil about prawn sandwiches? Why does wanting to buy a prawn sandwich and a cappiacino (sp) at half time make someone less of a fan than the guy who brings a bag of crisps and a can of coke? Fact is they both pay through the gate, but Prawn sandwich man is currently happier sitting in the house watching Gilette Soccer Saturday, or cutting the grass.
There is actually more commercial opportunity for IL/LOI clubs through catering and other secondary sales than through gate receipts. No one will ever pay EPL ticket prices, but the profit margin on a prawn sandwich is the same at Old Trafford as it is at the Oval or Shamrock Park.
Why is it that when people finish a statement with "end" or "end of" there are usually dozens of possible counters or additions that the poster seemingly doesn't want to listen to?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
I've an open mind on an AIL. Years ago the Longford Town goalkeeper was interviewed on foot.ie and he said that there were good players in Ireland, but not enough to be spread around all the teams in the top league. So fewer teams with more good players per team is needed. An AIL could improve the average playing standard in a 10-12 team top flight - same number of teams but the playing population is increased.
My instinct is that a wholesale restructuring of European football, or its competitions, may be the answer. I'm considering focusing on this topic for a degree dissertation I have to submit next year.
With regard to the two associations merging, I don't think NI fans should be made to accept a 32 county national side if they don't want to. Nor should ROI fans for that matter. It's a bit of a goofed up situation where a state / country (Britain) has 4 international teams and a tiny island has 2 but that's the way it is I guess.
I always wondered when Keane made that remark if he appreciated that attracting that type of customer was part of the reason he got paid so much. MUFC could charge less for tickets and pay their players less accordingly, but I'm sure RK wouldn't have liked that either.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
Perhaps the poster is distracted by the pie in the sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
If we look at the current country ranking for European leagues, the LOI is ranked 29th and the IL 49th out of 53 leagues. Merging the LOI and IL would be the equivalent of the LOI merging with the Dutch league (currently ranked 9th in Europe). Yes the playing population would be increased if the LOI joined with the Dutch but would the average playing standard also increase? LOI clubs would certainly benefit from playing against higher quality Dutch opposition but would the playing standard of Dutch clubs improve from playing LOI sides? I wonder did Digger O'Brien consider that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
While that may seem the logical "equivalent" when you add or subtract 20 to the LOI's ranking to get 9 or 49, I don't think the gap between LOI and IL is the same as the gap between the Dutch league and LOI. I don't think you think that either.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
I just used that to highlight that there is a gap in standard between the two leagues that (a) would need the IL clubs catch up fast, or (b) LOI clubs to come down to IL level or (c), the most likely, IL club standards to increase with LOIs standard decreasing to meet somewhere in the middle. If we are talking purely about playing standards, merging is not of benefit for LOI clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Though I don't think that any AIL has ever been about playing standards.
Well that's the problem. Football isn't the motivation behind AIL calls. That's why I'm against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
What's the motivation so then? Surely more promotion & more interest creates more money which in turn increases the standard of football.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
More promotion? Assumption or factQuote:
Originally Posted by galwayjames
Assumption or fact. Consider Setanta Cup attendances and ask yourself are matches against Institute, Dungannon and Lisburn Distillery of more interest to a Galway public than matches against Sligo, Athlone and Limerick.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayjames
Again assumption or fact. The only certainty is that it will increase expenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayjames
Not for LOI sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayjames
I would only be in favour of an AIL if all the clubs were involved and not this "super league" nonsense
GJ is right, playing v. a wider variety of teams can only help general standards, including our brethren in N.E.Ulster.
The benefits of an AIL can be seen in rugby, but it probably won't happen in soccer, more for reasons of political paranoia than any sporting ones.
It's the Celtic league that has transformed playing standards in Rugby and enabled us to win Heineken Cups, Grand Slam and beat Springboks etc. It would require a similarly radical solution to make "proper" club football viable in Ireland. An AIl i nitself would achive very little. we simply have too many teams with inadequate support bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Aye, but it had to have a base somewhere. As in where above started from.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
And Congrats to Ireland beating the World Champions and narrowly failing, via Messrs.McDowell & McIlroy to make us, Ireland, World Champions in the golf!
Better luck next time lads!
Erin Go Bragh!
Article in the Irish Times by Michael Walker
Ireland should have one league and one team
Good article, but the down side is it's going to :rolleyes: generate another 500 posts from our paranoid friends....who're opposed to any sort of, er, 'unification'.
They ridicule our Finals record, but it's been the best part of a quarter of a century since they last qualified and will be that maybe again before they come close again?
I'd say the above is more likely to generate the 500 posts. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Anyway, 1 down....................
Too right Ireland should have one league and one team, works in all other sports, so why not football i ask ?
It would only benefit everyone, we'd be more competitive, have access to more players, no more arguments if a lad from Derry wants to go south but then the nordies have a bloody tantrum about it coz technically he's Northern Irish...B*ll**ks.
Nordies complaining coz they'd have to travel down to Dublin every time, you kidding? It's motorway all the way it takes 2 hours, it'd be worth it going to Lansdowne instead of that bog Wind****e Park.
Club football certainly needs the competitive edge that bringing the stronger teams on the island into regular league competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
In reality I suppose there is the fear that the fans of some of the clubs might take this competitive edge too far. If this issue could be dealt with then bigger clubs competing against one another regularly on a league basis could only improve club football on the Island.
How often is it that stuff that makes sense does not happen on this Island.
I am not fussed about merging the International sides as there is really is a defacto All-Ireland team after the last FIFA regulations regarding players playing for ROI.
If an All-Ireland teams happens in the longer term then so be it.
If the clubs on both sides of the border do not get their acts together then the quality of players available to both sides may detierate as with the pick of the best young players from all over the world how much longer can either International side rely on English clubs to develope their players.
How, exactly, would it "benefit" the vast majority of Northern Ireland players and supporters?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickcule
Northern Ireland supporters have absolutely no desire to watch our International football in Dublin.
I repeat, if Northern Ireland fans were minded on being "more competitive", in the context of a merger, they'd be supportive of an all UK team.
PS. In answer to your opening question, once upon a time there was one....
Don't worry. We'd be happy to play all the games in Beal-feirste. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Though you'd need to build a :rolleyes: a decent stadium.
Hear that site at the Maze is still free....
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately it crashes my computer- obviously some f*n**n ploy to prevent any angry replies from nasty orange bigots- but luckily Ardee Bhoy lent me his paper copy down the pub, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Er, both players do- they have a choice. Both teams do, up to a point- the pool of potential players is increased. And most importantly, the fans do. They get to see a team that genuinely represents them, rather than an unwelcome hybrid which doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Walker Irish Times
No they won't. They'll be disappointed and maybe annoyed (given that Duffy has already played regularly for our u-19 and u-21 teams), but neither those teams nor the senior squad will be marginalised. They'll still exist, they'll still be competing in the World and European championships, and for the time being they'll still be third-ranked (third-rate if you prefer), just like the South.Quote:
NI supporters will see [any decision by Duffy to declare for the South] as another small step towards the marginalisation of their squad and team
The Republic of Ireland can't afford to pay its civil servants, faces massive unemployment for years to come and is struggling to mop up with large areas of its major cities under water after recent flooding. They're in no position to give Bohs, Shels and Cok- let alone Derry, Linfield and Glentoran- millions to spunk on an unsustainable vanity league.Quote:
There should be if necessary government money put behind [an all-Ireland league]
Actually, it DID fall apart. World War One saw millions die, then many powerful countries collapse and others rise in their stead, including the Irish Free State. They wanted their own football team, and got it. What's the problem?Quote:
Ireland has had one international team before and the World didn't fall apart
Er, the teams that knock them out, dear. That's how competitive sport works. Northern Ireland may not qualify- we certainly won't be favorities to do so- but we'll give it a go. I expect the South will do likewise.Quote:
If both Irish sides fail to qualify for Euro 2012, whose purpose will be served?
What's this guy on? If NI qualify, it'll obviously be brilliant. If the South do too, that's great, look forward to seeing you there.Quote:
or the opposite?
Good if fringe player for club and country. Parents possibly can't spell?Quote:
We need to talk about Darron
OK, from another of Walker's columns on Saturday but it does show his wider understanding of the game.Quote:
Leeds too good for the third division
Go away and stop stirring.Quote:
Ireland should have one league and one team
Hang on- you (RoI fans generally) criticise and even ridicule your recent qualifying record; you hardly need us to do it for you. The record just isn't very good. One finals of the last eight tournaments- Slovenia, a much smaller country has been to three in the same period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardee Bhoy
NI came respectably close to Euro 2008- we were still able to qualify at half time in the last game of 12. Even this time we were only three points behind the eventual runner up going into the last game. With 24 Euro finalists in future (albeit a crazy idea in my opinion) our chances of qualifying, like everyone else's are obviously increased.
Er, it doesn't work in all other sports, as I detailed up-thread. There isn't an all-Ireland cricket league. The island's two best players play for er, England. Many Irish sportsmen and women represent Northern Ireland and/ or Britain in international competitions such as the Olympics and Commonwealth games. Gaelic games and their all-Ireland teams commemorating paramilitarism and the rest only work to the extent that barely anyone in any other country plays them. I don't follow rugby union but if I did wouldn't be enthused by an Irish team which represents the South in all but name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickule
A-ha ha. You've some nerve accusing any other country's fans of throwing tantrums- for the last three weeks many of yours, along with players, your management, your FA, your minister for justice and your leading pop vocalist have been throwing the toys to the extent that they're a laughing stock for many both outside and within the country...Quote:
no more arguments if a lad from Derry wants to go south but then the nordies have a bloody tantrum about it coz technically he's Northern Irish...B*ll**ks
We're complaining because you- along with all the other stirrers, halfwits, cartoon provos and lazy journalists on this thread are trying to abolish our football team. It's got nothing to do with motorway maintenance between Dublin and Belfast.Quote:
Nordies complaining coz they'd have to travel down to Dublin every time, you kidding? It's motorway all the way it takes 2 hours, it'd be worth it going to Lansdowne instead of that bog Wind****e Park
So you're in favour then?
wrt an All-Ireland league, Walker says it'd improve things but doesn't say how. Personally I'm in favour but I'd like to see reasoned argument supporting his assertion.
Paranoia is alive and, er, 'well'. Just because one of your 'own' suggests an AI soccer team or League, you think it automatically means 're-unification' ?? Some great 'logic' there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
And how can us in Ireland be 'southern' when it contains the most northerly county and geographical point in Donegal & Malin Head?? Maybe re-name the North as North-East Ulster ??
It's been said that the AI teams in cricket, golf, hockey and rugby union/league are 'unsuccessful'. Hmm, to the extent that they've all recently made a mark in their own World Championships or equivalent.
And that's despite the likes of 'Ingle-land', in certain instances, trying to poach anyone who's half-decent....
Respectable performances and finishing position in that group, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Qualify at half time in the last game? in theory yes.
Probably a 1-500 chance to qualify at half time in that last game.
You were still able to qualify on the hour mark, probably a 1-1m chance.
I think we're broadly agreed- NI were respectable overall and had a nominal chance almost to the bitter end.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Going into the last game, I recall the bookies suggesting a 10% chance we'd beat Spain (beat them for a second time in the group, so the likelihood was hardly infinitesimal). Apply a similar figure of 10% to the Sweden- Latvia game, and you've got 1% for a combination of both the results we needed. A significantly higher likelihood than that of FIFA replaying any qualifiers or increasing the number of teams in South Africa, I reckon.
It hasn't as far as I've heard (as you suggest, Irish rugby union, cricket and golf have rarely if ever been more successful), but so what? It doesn't mean Robbie Keane and Aaron Hughes would lift Euro 2012 by playing together. And even if it did, NI fans are not interested. However much you want to celebrate two guys from Portrush and Holywood coming second in a golf tournament, or three blokes from the Republic making the 15 man squad for the cricket World cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Not saying they would, but a bigger pool of players would improve our chances of at least qualifying. Even with 24 teams, yours must be virtually :rolleyes: non-existent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
And don't understand your last sentence;who else would they support?
'Ingle-land', Scotland ?? ;)
Well you keep telling us everyone from the N-E Ulster is 'Irish, so why wouldn't we not want to see a UI team do well....Quote:
However much you want to celebrate two guys from Portrush and Holywood coming second in a golf tournament, or three blokes from the Republic making the 15 man squad for the cricket World cup.
By half time that 1-100 chance, one could argue that it became a 1-500 chance. As compared to half time in Paris where we were clear favourites with the bookies to win the game. But I wasn't making that comparison:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round