Totally unrealted to the above, but this is a very interesting article on the gun argument in America (which is front and center of every debate when there is a mass shooting).
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I am sure impeachment / Ukraine etc. will be all the rage on the news channels in Ireland over the next few weeks. A bit of perspective on what really happened
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mark - dumping YouTube videos into a thread isn't the same as making an argument.
What point are we supposed to take from those videos?
(Not interested in a "Watch it yourself and make your mind up" reply because that to me is the marker of someone who generally thinks a YouTube video equates to a solid argument, even if the video is nonsense. Sum up the key points in a few lines for us please)Comment
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Agree with Stu. Haven’t watched the videos. My only take on this is that it will blow up in the Dems faces again just like their previous efforts to take Trump down.
The main question I have is that, even if there was a quid pro quo request made by Trump and it doesn’t appear that there was, and even if that is wrong (and I don’t know that it is), why on earth are we not applying the same standards to a) the Biden video where he brags about withholding the $1.5bn from Ukraine until they fired the Burisma prosecutor that his son was sitting on the Board of and b) Obama administrations efforts to pressure Ukraine into releasing information on Trumps 2016 campaign manager. The double standards being applied here are just nutso to me.I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.Comment
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From what was released so far, there's nothing that will get Trump in trouble. Maybe later releases will have something.
Anyway, I don't think many party members on either side would actually give much of a sh!t about the actual principles of it all. The Dems would piously attack, the Reps would prevaricate and play down and muddy the waters, and some time in the not-too-distant future something similar will happen under a Democrat president, and everybody will play the political game again, except with roles reversed, making the same arguments they all had such contempt for previously.
Nothing matters really, except for getting your champ in the white house and then keeping them there. Anything is fair game when it comes to that.
I'm sure this is what the impeachment is about also.Comment
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Really interesting Stu that you say this because I would much prefer making my point in a few (or not so few) lines. I have done this in the past but have been called out for not providing sources. Damned if I do and damned if I don't.
But since you ask the attached videos speak about the actions of Joe Biden and the payoff his son got from the Ukrainians while working for an energy company (the son had no exprience in that field but got a 600k pay off). Joe Biden then goes and threatens the Ukrainians to remove a prosecutor who was looking into his son's activities. Biden threatens to withold US government aid from them if the prosecutor is not fired. He was promptly fired. And then the Dems go and accuse Trump of wrongdoing for looking into this. The non fake news is saying that AG William Barr and the Inspector General (Durham) are extremely close to blowing the lid on the corruption which led to the Russian collusion debacle, and this impeachment drive from the Dems is a diversion to keep the eyed of the world off them.Comment
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From what I've read, there is consensus that the prosecutor, Shokin, was fired for failure to prosecute corruption charges against oligarchs in Ukraine, not because he was going after Biden's son, with Joe Biden merely expressing US Government policy at the time. There appears to be no evidence that Hunter Biden was, or should have been, under investigation for illegal activity at the time.
Meanwhile Fox News' legal advice indicates that simply asking President Zelensky to investigate Biden's son alone was a crime, regardless of whether the withholding of aid is to be considered part of a quid pro quo or worse, a bribe
Last edited by samhaydenjr; 01/10/2019, 2:15 AM.Comment
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Just to be clear, Hunter Biden was not under investigation. The corruption being investigated predated his time on the Burisma Board. That’s where a lot of people are getting confused. However, he was sitting on the Board of a company that was under investigation by the government of the time. And Joe used his position as an elected official to exert pressure on this foreign government to fire the prosecutor of the company. And that Ukraine wouldn’t get their $1.5bn until this happened.
Hunter was earning $50k per month. Bear in mind this guy was completely unqualified for such a position and was discharged from the army for cocaine addiction. The guy is nothing short of a car crash and most companies that you or I would be aware of wouldn’t entrust governance into someone with that kind of track record. It’s fair to assume that daddy Biden had something to do with Hunter getting this sweet gig.
It’s also fair to conclude that, at best, there was a serious conflict of interest here and funds withheld based on a clear quid pro quo. We won’t give you money unless you fire a prosecutor we don’t like. It’s actually a far more obvious and straightforward a violation than what the transcript sets out against Trump, in my opinion. The Hunter connection is somewhat irrelevant other than to make it an ethical violation on top of “bribery”.
If nothing else, as I say above, it’s a woeful double standard that’s being applied.
Transcript: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-documentLast edited by SkStu; 01/10/2019, 3:45 AM.I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.Comment
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I give you: President Donald TrumpThe guy is nothing short of a car crash and most companies that you or I would be aware of wouldn’t entrust governance into someone with that kind of track record.Comment
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I don't engage with Trumpists, find someone else to validate your ridiculous opinions.Comment
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