Attendances 2019

[Ezeikial]

I'm not in denial at all, dundalk fans were left standing for 20 minutes under cover of a nice roof. It's a shocking indictment that could easily have led to people having to bunch up into a three people for every 2 seats situation. Close shave....irony or what

You really think a 'nice roof' is in some way relevant?

It was a safety issue not simply one of comfort. The aisles and stairways were packed with people trying to get in to a stand section that was already full.

You seem to have very little appreciation for the safety issues involved in stadium overcrowding, but then that's also what I thought about those responsible for the inertia and mismanagement on the night.

Most of the tragedies listed here involve the consequences of overcrowding or mismanagement of crowds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Stadium_disasters

[sbgawa]

Exaggerate much? If people had been pushed up against the orange netting anything could have happened

[sbgawa]

I've been googling but can't find any specific numbers for away support for Derry in the late 80s, but I'd suspect they were the biggest certainly over a season or two.
I suppose if you go back far enough into the 50s and 60s the crowds were far higher.
Rovers had a couple of thousand for the final game in bray in 2011....Given bray were taking tenners at the gate with no tickets anything is possible crowd wise .

For a normal league match I'd say if bohs or pats get 1500 into the east stand it will b e a modern record.

[Eminence Grise]

Look who cares about this my dick is bigger than your Dick garbage.

Not you, sir, and I salute you for it! Good of you to take the lower case and be, ah, the bigger man.

[Ezeikial]

Exaggerate much? If people had been pushed up against the orange netting anything could have happened

[RathfarnhamHoop]

There's an awful lot of ****e posted on this site but I think claiming figures from a clubs official ticket office are neither relevant nor credible probably takes the biscuit.
It's actually impossible for the figure to not be relevant as they were posted just in case any Dundalk fans were interested in the official number and not in relation to any conversation that might have been going on in your own head Ez. Claiming they're not credible on the basis of not believing the poster is one thing but claiming they're not credible on the basis the ticket office itself is wrong is laughable, especially when the game was an all ticket event and the number is roughly what multiple estimates have put it at and what has been taken on here as the number.

Now if the conversation is now (back) on the issues of the night there's actually a few things you're leaving out Ez. Mainly that it may have taken 20 minutes to open the next section but a while before that the netting at the front of the stand started to get moved but it was decided due to the rain to stop that and see about opening the next section so that fans could stay dry, trying to keep away fans under shelter, if only every set of away fans could be treated so well.

Was the over crowding acceptable? No. It was a learning curve though and not deserving of being brought up again to such an extent out of nowhere.

[dundalkfc10]

Dalyer and Oriel are the grounds that i often hear fans say they will not go to. Pats behind the goal is crap as well but you have a decent chance of a stand ticket in Richmond if you are in early enough. Sligo is fine imo, Finn park tbh its a long time since i was there.

You can pay into the Stand in Oriel and have an excellent view!

[Asterix]

You can pay into the Stand in Oriel and have an excellent view!

Not sure excellent is the word I'd use, better perhaps. I'd expect at least a clear view for €20.

[sbgawa]

We should have a predict the crowd competition as a separate bonus point in the predictions league ( humble suggestion Sirs )....
I feel sure this would be a good thing for me.

[Nesta99]

There's an awful lot of ****e posted on this site but I think claiming figures from a clubs official ticket office are neither relevant nor credible probably takes the biscuit.

Ah come on RH, under declaring ticket sales is as old as the hills and as much a key LoI business practice as spending money ye dont have hoping to make money. Maybe not in this case and I dont dispute the figures but it will be a while yet before I take all declared ticket sales and announced attendanes anywhere at face value. Its not that long ago that we were given cloakroom tickets at United Park eg. If there are hand held scanners used than people can slip through occasionally without their ticket scanned. That can be reconciled with ticket sales to some extent. I wasnt at the game so cant comment at the level of risk, precieved or real, but it is not unknown for crowd congestion entering league grounds. I hate when there is a delayed response to a developing situation (in general as Im aware of how things get very bad very quickly) even if there was no risk this time, the next time there could be with larger numbers if a proper debrief isnt done to improve decision making on the move - especially with Na Gardaí who will be dealing with huge crowds and need to act quickly to avert injury or worse.

[El-Pietro]

Why would a team under declare attendance? The ticket sales are not taxed (with the exception of Derry). What possible reason could teams have for under reporting? If anything over reporting makes more sense to try and impress sponsors and encourage more fans to attend in future.

[Lim till i die]

Why would a team under declare attendance? The ticket sales are not taxed (with the exception of Derry). What possible reason could teams have for under reporting?

This is asked every couple of months on here and the innocence warms the cockles of my heart.

As for impressing sponsors, there are no sponsors in the LoI, just charitable donors.

[sbgawa]

Underdeclaring the crowd allows some clubs to pocket the cash paid at the gate to pay some bills/players in cash.

I'd say it is "mostly" in the past as most clubs issue numbered tickets and sell online where there is a paper trail.
That match i mentioned earlier in Bray when Rovers won the league i paid a tenner cash on the gate to a guy who waved me on when i put my hand out for a ticket.
The crowd declared on the night escapes my addled memory but i do remember laughing at the number at the time.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Ah come on RH, under declaring ticket sales is as old as the hills and as much a key LoI business practice as spending money ye dont have hoping to make money. Maybe not in this case and I dont dispute the figures but it will be a while yet before I take all declared ticket sales and announced attendanes anywhere at face value. Its not that long ago that we were given cloakroom tickets at United Park eg. If there are hand held scanners used than people can slip through occasionally without their ticket scanned. That can be reconciled with ticket sales to some extent. I wasnt at the game so cant comment at the level of risk, precieved or real, but it is not unknown for crowd congestion entering league grounds. I hate when there is a delayed response to a developing situation (in general as Im aware of how things get very bad very quickly) even if there was no risk this time, the next time there could be with larger numbers if a proper debrief isnt done to improve decision making on the move - especially with Na Gardaí who will be dealing with huge crowds and need to act quickly to avert injury or worse.

The argument for under reporting of attendance only really has any grounds when there's cash at the gate with no physical ticket involved (which can be hidden away with no paper trail) or complimentary tickets which fall in a bit of a grey zone it seems to count or not to count (personally think it should be, its attendance not tickets sold). Now I doubt Rovers were giving complimentary tickets away for the away end and Tallaght is an all ticket stadium so there goes both those possibilities. Also the fact this isn't a declared or announced number, it's just someone asking a mate in the ticket office to have a look at how many away tickets were issued for away fans for them so there's absolutely no reason for it to be incorrect, other than that it's tickets sold so the actual attendance could be lower but couldn't be higher.

All that's before you get into the ridiculousness of calling a standalone statement that wasn't trying to be relevant to anything other than attendance numbers which it does quite well irrelevant. This conversation was also had and concluded immediately after the game and brought up by one poster as part of their weird obsession with Rovers for no real reason.

[Ezeikial]

There's an awful lot of ****e posted on this site but I think claiming figures from a clubs official ticket office are neither relevant nor credible probably takes the biscuit.
It's actually impossible for the figure to not be relevant as they were posted just in case any Dundalk fans were interested in the official number and not in relation to any conversation that might have been going on in your own head Ez. Claiming they're not credible on the basis of not believing the poster is one thing but claiming they're not credible on the basis the ticket office itself is wrong is laughable, especially when the game was an all ticket event and the number is roughly what multiple estimates have put it at and what has been taken on here as the number.

Now if the conversation is now (back) on the issues of the night there's actually a few things you're leaving out Ez. Mainly that it may have taken 20 minutes to open the next section but a while before that the netting at the front of the stand started to get moved but it was decided due to the rain to stop that and see about opening the next section so that fans could stay dry, trying to keep away fans under shelter, if only every set of away fans could be treated so well.

Was the over crowding acceptable? No. It was a learning curve though and not deserving of being brought up again to such an extent out of nowhere.

The argument for under reporting of attendance only really has any grounds when there's cash at the gate with no physical ticket involved (which can be hidden away with no paper trail) or complimentary tickets which fall in a bit of a grey zone it seems to count or not to count (personally think it should be, its attendance not tickets sold). Now I doubt Rovers were giving complimentary tickets away for the away end and Tallaght is an all ticket stadium so there goes both those possibilities. Also the fact this isn't a declared or announced number, it's just someone asking a mate in the ticket office to have a look at how many away tickets were issued for away fans for them so there's absolutely no reason for it to be incorrect, other than that it's tickets sold so the actual attendance could be lower but couldn't be higher.

All that's before you get into the ridiculousness of calling a standalone statement that wasn't trying to be relevant to anything other than attendance numbers which it does quite well. This conversation was also had and concluded immediately after the game and brought up by one poster as part of their weird obsession with Rovers for no real reason.

For a lad who is complaining about this being brought up, you seem fairly determined to keep bumping it with similar successive posts.

My final thoughts on this:

I don't believe that the 798 number posted by Asterix is accurate, but whether it is or not is hardly the issue. You have acknowledged the overcrowding issue, which presumably means that you recognise there were insufficient seats allocated for the number of people admitted. Whether this is due to a wrong ticket count, ticket admin c**k-up or just that nobody could count the number of seats correctly is anyone's guess (although presumably will be known within the Shamrock Rovers club).

The incredibly slow response to the overcrowding safety problem that inevitably developed is also a worry: the netting was removed from a small number of rows in one section only about 5 minutes into the match. This was a belated and inadequate response to a problem that was obvious to those in the stand for quite some time before that. It took another 15 minutes to open the adjacent unoccupied section of the stand.

The overcrowding clearly presented safety issues - if there was a goal scored or another incident that sparked a crowd surge, the consequences could have been more serious than just mild discomfort for 15 minutes

I sincerely hope that that club officials, AGS, and SDCC safety officers are not as blasé about dismissing this as you and others here.