Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Tuesday, 7th September 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[pineapple stu]

I did say "that's not to say Arter should start", and indeed there's a case that we've said for others (McGeady) that League One isn't really a suitable standard and I wouldn't be too bothered if Arter weren't in the squad. I'd be quite happy in fact to leave our all our third tier players until they were at a decent level. But we are where we are.

But Conor Coventry has started five league games ever, and they were in the third tier 18 months ago, and he was subbed off in two of those. Kilkenny has started four league games ever. Are they really worth an inclusion over Arter? Are they really viable alternatives? I don't think they've shown anything to indicate they are.

Yes, that means that - given we have really few options elsewhere - I'm arguing Arter is still worth a call-up. That's an indication really of just how bad our squad is. Putting in worse players won't improve that.

[paul_oshea]

Arter hasn't started a league match this year - I'm not talking about this season, but the entire calendar year of 2021!

And you say Kilkenny and Coventry, two promising young players whose careers are in the ascendency and who've done well for the U-21 side have 'done nothing to warrant a call-up'. You think Arter has? And Doyle-Hayes' form has been good for 12 months now.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you accuse be of 'throwing around random names', I would consider the players I mentioned as viable alternatives.

And of course you could say many of the current squad don't 'warrant a call up', but you can only pick from what you can pick from. Some of the players named, like Arter, Molumby and Christie have played no first-team football at all this season.

I take your point about a hammering damaging confidence, but I don't expect that to happen.

I think his point is that young lads are just that, young lads, prospects thats all they are. If the other lads who are already in there and were the cream of the underage and theyre not doing anything then whats the point in picking others who are likely to contribute even less and take up an extra spot. Arter might be in there for experience in training and other stuff like that, i thought i saw brady yesterday in training. Horses for courses

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Playing Arter would be madness. He's not a 'defensive midfielder' at all, he simply doesn't have the tactical discipline or temperament to play there. He's a box-to-box midfielder whose legs have gone, and is red card waiting to happen.

Why he's in the squad ahead of the likes of Kilkenny, Coventry and Doyle-Hayes is completely bewildering.

With half the campaign yet to play Kenny's created a situation where the rest of the matches are dead rubbers. I never thought we'd fall so far and so quickly.

Therefore we may as well give Kelleher, who'll be our number 1 long-term, game-time, play Omobamidele, give Manning a chance to show what he can do, try McGrath in a number 10 role and play Parrott in his favoured central position.

Sadly we've nothing to lose now.

Kenny is speaking out both sides of his mouth and is all over the place. I heard him talking on the radio today, asking did people expect us to qualify for the World Cup, we haven't qualified for one since 2002 and then saying he's building a squad for 2024. I think very few people expected us to qualify for the World Cup but who would have predicted we'd be joint last and effectively out of qualification after 2 games? If he was just going for youngsters and attempting to build, that would be one thing but that clearly is not what he has been doing. Most of his reign has reminded me of the Staunton era and his laughable excuses are definitely in line with that time. Staunton thought he shouldn't have been sacked and that he was building for the future. He was pointing out drawing with Germany and home, only losing 1-0 away, drawing with Czech Republic, beating Slovakia and games like that as a defense. He didn't mention the embarrassing results, same as with Kenny.

As for tonight, in one way I agree, we should be just giving youngsters a go but on the other hand, these players are being damaged by this set up. I hope they're protected from it until we get a competent manager in charge. In more similarities to the Stan era, I think we'll see a bounce back from an awful display. Possibly getting a draw.

[Trequartista20]

I accept you wouldn't start Arter, but if your point is that Kenny's sensibly going for experienced options then that argument rather falls down when you consider how he's not picked Randolph, Williams, Lenihan and has several times left Shane Long out of squads, to name a few.

How many league games has Omobamidele started? And yet he was thrown into the deep end against Portugal in a position, central defence, where experience should count for even more than midfield. Where's the consistency?

Would, for example, Randolph not offer useful experience to the youthful trio of goalkeepers Kenny called upon?

Kenny's (new) line seems to be that we should never have expected to compete in this group and that he's building for Euro '24.

With that in mind, if Arter's not going to play and is only there as cover why not go for more youthful options who can gain vital experience along the way. Maybe Kilkenny and Coventry aren't good enough, maybe they never will be. Who knows? Like you say, we're desperate, however when a player's career is in sharp decline, as is the case with Arter, and, sad to say McClean, who now have little to offer us, I personally would go for the youthful option in the hopes that they one day might be.

[zero]

I'm trying to remember the last time we had an essentially 'no stakes' competitive international... germany away with Noel King?

[Stuttgart88]

probably, but bear in mind coming 3rd in a Euros campaign got a play off spot not long ago.

[pineapple stu]

I accept you wouldn't start Arter, but if your point is that Kenny's sensibly going for experienced options then that argument rather falls down when you consider how he's not picked Randolph, Williams, Lenihan and has several times left Shane Long out of squads, to name a few.

How many league games has Omobamidele started? And yet he was thrown into the deep end against Portugal in a position, central defence, where experience should count for even more than midfield. Where's the consistency?

And I've argued against leaving Lenihan out of the squad. There was an argument that Randolph was left out to try secure a move in the transfer window, but he's also hardly played in two years. Williams - the MLS is another league that (rightly or wrongly) I don't think is really sufficient standard. I'm also not sure if there were covid quarantine issues there as well. In an ideal world I'd have all three in the squad, but certainly two of them haven't made it easy for themselves.

Bottom line though - yes, rebuild the squad. Throw in a young player here or there. But as a UCD fan, I can tell you bad things happen when you throw in half a team of young players with hardly any games at a suitable level and expect them to play ball against an adult side. So throw in Bazunu or Omabamidele or Idah or Parrott or Connolly or Scales or Coventry but if you start including multiple or even all of those players, then you've gone badly wrong. And that can be very badly self-defeating.

[Trequartista20]

Kenny is speaking out both sides of his mouth and is all over the place. I heard him talking on the radio today, asking did people expect us to qualify for the World Cup, we haven't qualified for one since 2002 and then saying he's building a squad for 2024. I think very few people expected us to qualify for the World Cup but who would have predicted we'd be joint last and effectively out of qualification after 2 games? If he was just going for youngsters and attempting to build, that would be one thing but that clearly is not what he has been doing. Most of his reign has reminded me of the Staunton era and his laughable excuses are definitely in line with that time. Staunton thought he shouldn't have been sacked and that he was building for the future. He was pointing out drawing with Germany and home, only losing 1-0 away, drawing with Czech Republic, beating Slovakia and games like that as a defense. He didn't mention the embarrassing results, same as with Kenny.

As for tonight, in one way I agree, we should be just giving youngsters a go but on the other hand, these players are being damaged by this set up. I hope they're protected from it until we get a competent manager in charge. In more similarities to the Stan era, I think we'll see a bounce back from an awful display. Possibly getting a draw.

I think that's a legitimate point. We're all fully cognizant of the fact we're lacking in quality, and no-one's expecting miracles. But at just what point do we accept Kenny's doing more harm than good, that he's actually damaging our medium-term prospects in terms of player morale, dwindling interest in the national side, player defections, ranking points that'll see us drop down the seedings, and general footballing confidence in this country?

Have we reached that point yet? I'm not sure, but if and when we do I think it'll then be time for Kenny to step aside.

As you allude to, after the Staunton debacle we were at a real low point, but we did turn it round, eventually.

We'll have no star name with the huge profile and personality of Trap to pick us off the floor this time, though. And that has to be borne in mind too.

[zero]

probably, but bear in mind coming 3rd in a Euros campaign got a play off spot not long ago.

It was just that one time though (right?). I think we'd all be pretty happy at this point to finish 3rd in this group.

[pineapple stu]

Portugal 2-0 up in Azerbaijan after 35 minutes. Lifts us off the bottom of the group at least...

[Straightstory]

I'm trying to remember the last time we had an essentially 'no stakes' competitive international... germany away with Noel King?

Last Saturday against Azerbaijan.

[zero]

Last Saturday against Azerbaijan.

fair point...

[Olé Olé]

So we got over run with two central midfielders the last night and Kenny has decided to go with four tonight. And McClean. I don't know...

[Olé Olé]

Could be 4-2-3-1 with McGrath on the wing or else 3-4-3 with McGrath and Browne behind Idah. I'm not sure. McClean is either left wing back or left wing. Not sure which I would rather.

[MylesNotMiley]

Not much pace in that team. Could be a lonely night for Idah.