Stephen Kenny

[dynamo kerry]

Wrote a great reply. Lost it. Here's the summary.

Stan was never a legit choice. It was madness and bad madness.

Kenny made some sense.i had though, watched his Scottish efforts first hand and it was rank.

He was half way to having a team but he never fully committed.. too many compromises.. but even tonight.. surrender the wings to the Greeks, took ages to make changes.. not subbing browne off at half time.. no one pressing behind ferguson,....bah

We need some mad fker now. Someone to really commit. Stare the other lads down and dare them to mess with us. Foster a true winning attitude.. dispense with the lads withered by age and attrition. Time to really clean house. Let's have some clinical decision making and if we lose so be it. In short, move on anyone over 30, start again, go for the jugular.. be hard to beat.. I don't care if its pretty.. I want some pride.

Second time losing to Greece at home in my life. I don't want a third.

[Dave77]

Kenny will be gone and no problem with that decision. He talked up what he and team could do but unfortunately fallen well short. Feel bad for the guy because it’s quite clear he and his coaching staff gave it everything but didn’t work out.

But Irish footballs problems are so deep it’s depressing. We are so underfunded and falling more and more behind it’s frightening. If anyone thinks some new manager will come in and solve the huge problems in irish football they are deluded.

Unless FAI get backing of money from government (think 900 million is the figure they mentioned) irish football will continue to decline. And let’s be honest all irish politicians will jump on board euro 2028 and say it’s great but ultimately will do nothing for elite game and grassroots game. All I see from euro 2028 is a GAA stadium, and small amount of money which will service debt.

Coached at decent LSL level and a player from Holland joined, he could not believe how bad facilities were for that level and we were explaining that it’s probably better then what a lot of semi pro and pro teams have in Ireland.

Kind of reminds of when people say we have the politicians we deserve. We have the football organisation we deserve. They only cared about senior men’s team for decades, most Irish football fans don’t care about Irish football at grassroots level and that’s what we have!!! A senior team with very little quality and as a result we just hope that a manager will get the absolute most from players rather than produce players and then make managers job easier.

Look at the rugby, they have around 12 private schools providing most of their pro players. Mad, when you train Young players 5/6 times a week in good facilities you produce good players. And it’s a lot easier to produce a rugby player then a footballer.

Not a defense of Kenny but **** me we are deep ****.

[JR89]

Kenny will be gone and no problem with that decision. He talked up what he and team could do but unfortunately fallen well short. Feel bad for the guy because it’s quite clear he and his coaching staff gave it everything but didn’t work out.

But Irish footballs problems are so deep it’s depressing. We are so underfunded and falling more and more behind it’s frightening. If anyone thinks some new manager will come in and solve the huge problems in irish football they are deluded.

Unless FAI get backing of money from government (think 900 million is the figure they mentioned) irish football will continue to decline. And let’s be honest all irish politicians will jump on board euro 2028 and say it’s great but ultimately will do nothing for elite game and grassroots game. All I see from euro 2028 is a GAA stadium, and small amount of money which will service debt.

Coached at decent LSL level and a player from Holland joined, he could not believe how bad facilities were for that level and we were explaining that it’s probably better then what a lot of semi pro and pro teams have in Ireland.

Kind of reminds of when people say we have the politicians we deserve. We have the football organisation we deserve. They only cared about senior men’s team for decades, most Irish football fans don’t care about Irish football at grassroots level and that’s what we have!!! A senior team with very little quality and as a result we just hope that a manager will get the absolute most from players rather than produce players and then make managers job easier.

Look at the rugby, they have around 12 private schools providing most of their pro players. Mad, when you train Young players 5/6 times a week in good facilities you produce good players. And it’s a lot easier to produce a rugby player then a footballer.

Not a defense of Kenny but **** me we are deep ****.

When Barry Maguire joined Limerick he couldn't get his head around the fact that 9/10 year olds in Holland trained four nights a week but 16/17 year olds here would do two nights a week.

FAI need to move away from this pipe dream they have of the LOI clubs having proper academies with full time coaches as the route for developing players and go about setting up a full time national academy. Where the best of the best can get full time professional training. Can still work on improving academies at LOI level for those that don't make the national academy but we need a national academy.

Look at the improvements Israel have made at underage level since they started working with UEFA and got funding. They've a full time academy now where the best players eat, sleep, study, and train together. Georgia also worked with UEFA and think they've four or five similar academies around the country like NI have who also worked with UEFA to develop theirs.

[ontheotherhand]

The Kennyites have been proven decisively wrong. After all of their high-handed disparagement and sneering of those of us who weren't true believers, will they now accept their share of the responsibility for the unmitigated disaster that has now presented itself?

Well, I doubt it. But where to now? We've reached an all-time low in terms of the status of the national team. Mismanagement at association level is the real issue, with the Kenny situation Delaney's final insult to the Irish fanbase.

A higher level, proven manager seems to be the way forward. But realistic candidates that fit the bill are hard to come by.

Who are the Kennyites?

[Insidetherock]

When Barry Maguire joined Limerick he couldn't get his head around the fact that 9/10 year olds in Holland trained four nights a week but 16/17 year olds here would do two nights a week.

FAI need to move away from this pipe dream they have of the LOI clubs having proper academies with full time coaches as the route for developing players and go about setting up a full time national academy. Where the best of the best can get full time professional training. Can still work on improving academies at LOI level for those that don't make the national academy but we need a national academy.

Look at the improvements Israel have made at underage level since they started working with UEFA and got funding. They've a full time academy now where the best players eat, sleep, study, and train together. Georgia also worked with UEFA and think they've four or five similar academies around the country like NI have who also worked with UEFA to develop theirs.

A national academy would be the way to go.. but we are still stuck in the situation where the best football players in the country are playing GAA alongside football up to u16 level minimum.

The LOI academies are helping, and they will bear fruit eventually..

But the "we don't have the players" line is wearing thin too..

Every player last night that played, was in a Premier League team or Championship team, along with Scales who's playing CL with Celtic

And ok, the PL players aren't playing with City or Arsenal.. but every team in the PL is a decent team

Most teams in the Championship, are decent teams.

All of those players are living, eating, sleeping football.. 7 days a week. They're all being trained by UEFA A license coaches. They're getting the best nutrition, the best S&C coaching.. the best of everything

And still looked lost for the past 18 months. Don't blame the "inadequacies" of the local football scene, for PL and C players playing poorly.

The 14 y in Holland playing 4/5 times a week.. is still not much better than Nathan Collins for example. But Collins looks lost playing for Ireland for the past 12 months

We rave about the man of the match performances of Ogbene. Honestly, nice as the guy is.. hard working, honest player.. but he can run fast and direct.. that's it. His first touch is terrible, you rarely see him dribble past a player, and his crossing is nothing to write home about

That's our problem at the moment.. we're getting not enough out of what we have.. while blaming what we won't have in the future

[Paddy Garcia]

Watching that game last might, the one person who grew in my esteem was Kevin Keegan.

A bit of self awareness and dignity.

[Trequartista20]

Who are the Kennyites?

The author of the Pundit Arena article linked above is a prime example. Utterly delusional stuff.

'Where are the Kennyites?' is probably a better question. Presumably walking slowly backwards into a hedge.

[Bungle]

Stephen is undoubtedly a nice man, but in a different era, he would have been gone long ago. He needs to show dignity and accept the job isn’t for him to sort out.

The “we don’t have the players” line is a cop out. Our players may not be Ronnie Whelan or Paul McGrath level, but there is enough quality to be a half decent competitive team. Noteworthy that the only time under Kenny we looked somewhat organised, he had a top level coach in Anthony Barry. He is a very poor manager technically and his back room team clearly don’t have much to contribute. To be fair to Kenny, I actually think he would listen to others around him.

A lot saying the future is bleak. I actually disagree. It looked bleak after 2012. Clearly we have an exceptional talent in Ferguson and a core of very exciting players coming through. An even better Belgian group in the late noughties and early 2010s took a few years to come through, but we need to ensure we have a proper manager with a good quality back room staff to help them come through tough times and ultimately become a decent team which they can become. Plenty of talent on the continent and Carsley is clearly a very impressive manager. All is not lost.

[liamoo11]

A national academy would be the way to go.. but we are still stuck in the situation where the best football players in the country are playing GAA alongside football up to u16 level minimum.

The LOI academies are helping, and they will bear fruit eventually..

But the "we don't have the players" line is wearing thin too..

Every player last night that played, was in a Premier League team or Championship team, along with Scales who's playing CL with Celtic

And ok, the PL players aren't playing with City or Arsenal.. but every team in the PL is a decent team

Most teams in the Championship, are decent teams.

All of those players are living, eating, sleeping football.. 7 days a week. They're all being trained by UEFA A license coaches. They're getting the best nutrition, the best S&C coaching.. the best of everything

And still looked lost for the past 18 months. Don't blame the "inadequacies" of the local football scene, for PL and C players playing poorly.

The 14 y in Holland playing 4/5 times a week.. is still not much better than Nathan Collins for example. But Collins looks lost playing for Ireland for the past 12 months

We rave about the man of the match performances of Ogbene. Honestly, nice as the guy is.. hard working, honest player.. but he can run fast and direct.. that's it. His first touch is terrible, you rarely see him dribble past a player, and his crossing is nothing to write home about

That's our problem at the moment.. we're getting not enough out of what we have.. while blaming what we won't have in the future

Yeah for all the grandious talk of changing irish football the only strategy was to have ogbene stay wide and use his athleticism to win free kicks that we aimed constantly with no variation towards Duffy. How was that different to previous irish sides. Only difference I can think is players like mcclean and kilbane who were similar to ogbene had far better delivery

[Jolly Red Giant]

There is a lot of nonsense about the players not being good enough - these are professional footballers playing at a high level in one of the most competitive leagues globally. Irish teams in the past with a similar or poorer 'quality' of player did not capitulate like Kenny's teams have done in the past 4 years. Irish teams for decades have always been greater than the sum of their parts (with the possible exception of Staunton's tenure) - now Kenny is succeeding in having them playing considerably less than the sum of their parts.

In 1974 the standard of English football wasn't anywhere close to its position in Europe now and few if any foreign players played in England - Ireland beat Russia 3-0 in 1974 and the team was significantly better than the sum of their parts because the guy managing the team, Johnny Giles, knew what he was doing - in the Irish team that day (and quite a few were not first choice at their clubs) were -

Paddy Roche (reserve goalie for Man Utd who were playing in the old second division - first choice goalie Mick Kearns, who played in the third division with Walsall was injured)
Jimmy Holmes (Coventry - bottom half of first division)
Joe Kinnear (Spurs - barely survived relegation from first division)
Terry Mancini (Arsenal - finished 16th in the first division - Mancini was 33 at the time and a bit part player - and was dumped by Arsenal at the end of the following season joining Aldershot)
Paddy Mulligan (Crystal Palace - third division)
Liam Brady (Arsenal - see above - and Brady was still an 18 year-old kid and played something like 15 games for Arsenal before the Russia game. Brady made his international debut in this game)
Johnny Giles (Leeds - finished 9th in the first division)
Steve Heighway (Liverpool - runners up)
Mick Martin (Man Utd - second division - and a bit part player)
Don Givens (QPR - mid-table first division)
Ray Treacy (Oldham - barely escaped relegation from second division)

Others in the Irish squad were -
Eoin Hand (Portsmouth - just above Oldham in second division)
John Dempsey (Chelsea - relegated from first division)
Tony Dunne (Bolton - mid-table second division)
Jimmy Conway (Fulham - mid-table second division)
Gerry Daly (played 16 games for Man U)
Miah Dennehy (Forest - just above Portsmouth)
Terry Conroy (Stoke - mostly used as a sub - first division)
Peter Thomas (Waterford)

If you have someone competent managing the team - particularly an international team - they will always get the team to punch above their weight. Last night was a disaster and remember Greece are not footballing giants - they are ranked four places above Ireland. Kenny has succeeded is seeing Ireland drop from 34th to 55th in his time in charge. We are now behind soccer powerhouses like Iran (21st) Australia (27th) Algeria (34th) Canada (44th) Panama (45th) Costa Rica (46th) Mali (49th) Finland (54th) and we are just ahead - literally - of Jamacia, Saudi Arabia and Burkino Faso.

[Fixer82]

Even when we didn’t have great squads we were always difficult to beat.

Two big problems:

- We’re easy to figure out and beat
- our manager has no charisma and probably doesn’t have the respect of some of the players. Not in a bad way. I’m sure they all like him personally but not sure he’s very inspiring

[tetsujin1979]

There is a lot of nonsense about the players not being good enough - these are professional footballers playing at a high level in one of the most competitive leagues globally. Irish teams in the past with a similar or poorer 'quality' of player did not capitulate like Kenny's teams have done in the past 4 years. Irish teams for decades have always been greater than the sum of their parts (with the possible exception of Staunton's tenure) - now Kenny is succeeding in having them playing considerably less than the sum of their parts.

In 1974 the standard of English football wasn't anywhere close to its position in Europe now and few if any foreign players played in England - Ireland beat Russia 3-0 in 1974 and the team was significantly better than the sum of their parts because the guy managing the team, Johnny Giles, knew what he was doing

You might want to research English clubs in European finals in the seventies

[pineapple stu]

I think there's an element that we have to be realistic about our squad - many have had poor seasons and aren't where we'd have thought they might be three years ago (when Kenny took over). Bazunu was out of his depth last year in the Premier and isn't doing great this season either (even allowing for a dodgy defence, to put it mildly). Doherty has barely played all year; has had a disastrous time of it. Collins was dropped by Wolves for the run-in last season. Duffy has dropped a division - he's doing well enough at Norwich, though is prone to the odd shocker. Cullen - Burnley have been a huge disappointment this season given how they romped the Championship last season. Knight was a Championship regular at 18, and four years later is at the same level. Smallbone is getting a lot of stick on the Southampton forum for being too lightweight (and I've noted before how ranty that site is in general, so pinch of salt there as required). Manning is the same. Idah is still living off a Cup hat-trick five years ago. That's just the guys who played yesterday - there's similar to be said about Kelleher, Omobamidele, Molumby, McGrath, Parrott, Connolly, Obafemi and others.

It's not a good squad. I think we lose sight of that when we have threads on each of the guys flagging when they when a tackle or whatever. It's a young squad and some of these guys are going to have something click in the next year or two and jump up a level. And some will drift out of the squad and be replaced by someone else. But we're looking at the squad as it is now, not as it might be in 2/3 years' time.

But to be clear - is it so poor a squad as to be so comfortably beaten by Greece home and away, on top of all the other poor results we've had? I don't think so. And that has to be on the manager.

[liamoo11]

If his contract doesn't get renewed I wonder what level he gets his next job at? Scottish premiership or lower end of English Championship?

[JR89]

If his contract doesn't get renewed I wonder what level he gets his next job at? Scottish premiership or lower end of English Championship?

LOI, can see him being the next Bohs manager.