James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[tetsujin1979]

All part of the propaganda to justify it.

History after all is written by the 'winners'.

and I want my say..

[Humpy Gussy]

Not sure if mentioned already but McClean has auctioned off his poppy-less shirt for a cancer charity. Nice gesture I reckon.

[peadar1987]

They'll justify them to us by telling us they're fought against "evil" or to protect/spread "freedom", but, ultimately, wars are fought for power.

I'd tend to agree. World War 2 might have rid the world of an incredibly evil and destructive regime, but the reason it was fought was not because Britain was protecting the freedom of small nations, it was because they were concerned about the rise of Germany threatening their own power. And the less said about the Americans the better. "We saved your asses in WW2?". Sure, you helped, but only after you were attacked yourselves. The help was much appreciated and very valuable, but don't act like you did it out of the goodness of your hearts!

[ArdeeBhoy]

and I want my say..

Of what?

[geysir]

I'd tend to agree. World War 2 might have rid the world of an incredibly evil and destructive regime, but the reason it was fought was not because Britain was protecting the freedom of small nations, it was because they were concerned about the rise of Germany threatening their own power.

Sure any war which threatened the British Empire was a force of evil
Ultimately, WW2 for the British Empire was a disaster, despite their best efforts to commit huge resources to defend their imperial interests and forcefully suppress independence movements. WW2 was the death knell to the British Empire. Hundreds of millions of people now enjoy the freedom to live their lives away from the pernicious yoke of the British Empire.
Yes, one can say WW2 rid parts of the the world of an incredibly evil and destructive regime.

Back to James, now living and working in the so called land of freedom which in reality means when one has a rational independent opinion, one has to bear the brunt of popular ignorance, intolerance, ridicule and the specter of a growing level of popular fascism.

[tetsujin1979]

All part of the propaganda to justify it.

History after all is written by the 'winners'.

and I want my say..

Of what?

listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnBIA8q7QO8
from 2:33

(bit obscure I know)

[ArdeeBhoy]

You're not wrong!

popular fascism.

Don't you mean 'poppy fascism'...

[Stuttgart88]

All part of the propaganda to justify it.

History after all is written by the 'winners'.

Did we meet on Saturday? It was the sentence construction that gave it away, plus a clue you dropped here involving my name about a year ago that made the penny drop.

Although there is a huge degree of poppy fascism over here and there are strong (UK) nationalist overtones to the whole thing, I
think it's pretty easy to disaggregate the nationalist overtones from the general sentiment of respecting the dead - mostly young men, probably apolitical, and mostly all died in grim circumstances. I wear a poppy although I didn't when I first came over here. I'd think myself a bit churlish not to, but each to his own.

[peadar1987]

I don't wear a poppy because I don't want to support the British army, but I will bow my head for the two minutes silence because I have the greatest of respect for the sacrifice made by many of its members. I don't think there's a conflict there.

Going back the the FAI Cup final analogy, for me, wearing the poppy is equivalent to putting your hand on your heart during the national anthem. No reason anyone not from Ireland should be expected to do that, although fair play to them if they want to.

[Fixer82]

Either way, I'd be stunned if McClean made the decision himself. I'm sure his "mates" from Derry made sure he was in the dark about the real meaning and made it a simple "don't support the brits" situation. He's not the brightest is our James.

What is the real meaning?
The poppy is for all British soldiers who died in all wars. That includes soldiers involved in the Troubles and soldiers who burnt Cork to the ground in the War of Independence.
I'm delighted he made a stand and it has always galled me that nobody has stood up to this poppy fascism.
I say fair play to him! I know if I was a premiership footballer I would be hugely uncomfortable wearing it.
I think sport should stay out of this kind of thing.
What if all LOI clubs wore a lily on their jerseys during Easter? It would be just embarrassing and possibly uncomfortable for any English players playing here.

[Fixer82]

At its heart hes not wearing one because he doesnt like the British. I dont object to this but if he feels like that he should live somewhere else.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. How do you know he dislikes 'The British'.?
I honestly don't think he'd continue playing with British team-mates if he was a small-minded racist like you suggest.
He may not, like all republicans, be too fond of the practices of the British Establishment in his country for the last number of years but that does not make him a racist.
Why should he have to wear a poppy and buy in to the propaganda surrounding it? I salute him for taking a stand!

[paul_oshea]

Did we meet on Saturday? It was the sentence construction that gave it away, plus a clue you dropped here involving my name about a year ago that made the penny drop.

Although there is a huge degree of poppy fascism over here and there are strong (UK) nationalist overtones to the whole thing, I
think it's pretty easy to disaggregate the nationalist overtones from the general sentiment of respecting the dead - mostly young men, probably apolitical, and mostly all died in grim circumstances. I wear a poppy although I didn't when I first came over here. I'd think myself a bit churlish not to, but each to his own.

I've been here almost 10 years, i haven't worn one, I still don't feel the need to wear one to fit in. Its funny I was going to ask if you wore one, but I assumed you did.

The only thing I have found uncomfortable was when we had to obey a 2 minute silence, I didn't intentionally speak out but it happened.

Oh ya and this sport and politics crap, whoever keeps saying stop mixing the two, is a dope of the highest order. It is inevitably mixed even if some like to live in the clouds and think it isn't.

[Charlie Darwin]

Arguable that James is guilty of bringing further political issues into football as a result of his stance.

I can see what you mean, but in this case he was kind of railroaded into making a decision where both wearing and not wearing the poppy would have been some form of political statement, one of which he's not comfortable with.

[CraftyToePoke]

I've been here almost 10 years, i haven't worn one, I still don't feel the need to wear one to fit in. Its funny I was going to ask if you wore one, but I assumed you did.

Do you reckon I wear one Paul ? To poppy or not to poppy?

Also with McClean, I feel choice has to be respected and this is a young guy, albeit maybe one who reacts a little bit too quickly at times, but who's people back home wouldn't like to see him don a poppy, he would receive ribbing or even be shunned by some of them, and who of us at that age would not have half an eye on that. Not wishing to give the impression he has gone to England, is taking the good money and forgotten all about the community that forged him and where he still calls home, is perfectly understandable and I admire that he didn't swap that for convenience.

[paul_oshea]

I don't think you think too much about what you wear, so I doubt you even think about wearing a poppy :P

Even though you are working directly with English and your partner is English, and you are more entrenched in middle(class/location) England, I don't think you do, no. Or as the case may be, to copy or not to copy....