Player eligibility row

[Mr_Parker]

Except that their current president Raymond Kennedy is an enthusiastic member and supporter of the OO, so I suppose we have the requisite criteria for our own 'paranoia', but he strikes as even more of a buffoon than even the Delaneys of this world, but am welcome to be told different.

I wouldn't put to much stall in his OO membership....afterall he said he would welcome Catholics joining the OO.....seriously I kid you not.....maybe that answers your other question.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm just realising that the statutes I was referring to earlier are outdated and that I should be referring to this document (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...uten2009_e.pdf), which appears to be the latest update to FIFA's statutes available.

VII. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR REPRESENTATIVE TEAMS

15 Principle
1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on
residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of
the Association of that country.
2. With the exception of the conditions specifi ed in article 18 below, any Player
who has already participated in a match (either in full or in part) in an offi cial
competition of any category or any type of football for one Association may not
play an international match for a representative team of another Association.

16 Nationality entitling players to represent
more than one Association
1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than
one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international
match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant
nationality, he fulfi ls at least one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of
the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the
relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association
for at least two years.

I now see the three (or four, even) criteria to which you were presumably referring in Article 16, fhtb. Apologies. I'll come back and deal with these in more depth when I have time. It could be a day or two, but for now with just a quick reading, I don't see how they necessarily need apply in the case of northern-borns whose Irish nationality allows for them to represent only one association. Unless Irish nationality also allows you to represent Northern Ireland... But it doesn't strictly, because an Irish national born in Dublin cannot represent Northern Ireland, or technically shouldn't be able to anyway unless FIFA have dictated some bizarre rule allowing it as a compromise. I have heard mention of that, but I don't really know if it's the case or not at all. Maybe someone could confirm it...

Out of interest, and possibly semi-related, does anyone know whether the minority of German-speakers (recognised as ethnically German, I suppose you could say) in Polish Upper Silesia are eligible for dual German-Polish citizenship or even just one of either? It's a situation with some parallels to here. I've been trying to look into it but can't really find anything conclusive or solid regarding the current state of affairs there. I do know Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski, for example, originated there, but then I believe they also had ancestry/parentage who had actually been originally from Germany and then both moved to Germany at a young age, if I'm not mistaken, so would have been eligible for German nationality anyway besides their status as members of the recognised "German minority" in Upper Silesia.

I'll try and come back to this again when I get an opportunity.

[dantheman]

Oh really?

Football for all... on our terms, and you are all ****ing subject to them!

Lol. Bit like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

"We're all inclusive like, because we all tell each other that. And if you disagree you can FAI Off, you beggars!"

How long does it take to implement 'Danny Boy', or even 'The Sash' ?? At least they'd both be unique to the Six Counties.

Hi quick question for any of:

Ealing Green
Not Brazil
Gather Round
FHTB (I'm from Donegal and I hate myself!)

or any other of the OWC fans (greatest in the world - they have an award like!)

You see, these posters all seem to favour a change in the anthem used at NI matches.
Which is a very nice sentiment to have indeed. Very nice. Nice words.

With that in mind, I was wondering whether they elaborate with any of the plans the IFA have in relation to the changing of this anthem?? Who they have talked with about it? What options are on the table etc.

I can't find anything on the IFA website, but I did read a few years back that they had commissioned a report, which recommended the changing of the anthem from GSTQ to something more 'neutral'. This appears to have fallen down the back of the settee somewhere there in the IFA headquarters.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-139707897.html (Well said Iris! )


Otherwise the nice sentiment above, could be interpreted, as a load of hot air!


If you could come back with some sort of feedback on this, I'd appreciate it. You have repeatedly dodged this question.


Best regards,
Northern Nationalism (FFA-sceptic)

[Mr_Parker]

Lol. Bit like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

"We're all inclusive like, because we all tell each other that. And if you disagree you can FAI Off, you beggars!"



Hi quick question for any of:

Ealing Green
Not Brazil
Gather Round
FHTB (I'm from Donegal and I hate myself!)

or any other of the OWC fans (greatest in the world - they have an award like!)

You see, these posters all seem to favour a change in the anthem used at NI matches.
Which is a very nice sentiment to have indeed. Very nice. Nice words.

With that in mind, I was wondering whether they elaborate with any of the plans the IFA have in relation to the changing of this anthem?? Who they have talked with about it? What options are on the table etc.

I can't find anything on the IFA website, but I did read a few years back that they had commissioned a report, which recommended the changing of the anthem from GSTQ to something more 'neutral'. This appears to have fallen down the back of the settee somewhere there in the IFA headquarters.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-139707897.html (Well said Iris! )


Otherwise the nice sentiment above, could be interpreted, as a load of hot air!


If you could come back with some sort of feedback on this, I'd appreciate it. You have repeatedly dodged this question.


Best regards,
Northern Nationalism (FFA-sceptic)

Full document here

http://www.robinwilson.eu/attachments/Football%20For%20All%20doc.pdf

Oh and while you're asking them, ask them about the flag the IFA cling too as well.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ealing Green
Not Brazil
Gather Round
FHTB (I'm from Donegal and I hate myself!)

You see, these posters all seem to favour a change in the anthem used at NI matches.
Which is a very nice sentiment to have indeed. Very nice. Nice words.

With that in mind, I was wondering whether they elaborate with any of the plans the IFA have in relation to the changing of this anthem?? Who they have talked with about it? What options are on the table etc.

I can't find anything on the IFA website, but I did read a few years back that they had commissioned a report, which recommended the changing of the anthem from GSTQ to something more 'neutral'. This appears to have fallen down the back of the settee somewhere there in the IFA headquarters.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-139707897.html (Well said Iris! )

If you could come back with some sort of feedback on this, I'd appreciate it. You have repeatedly dodged this question.

Best regards,
Northern Nationalism (FFA-sceptic)

Dated currently by a month or so, but what about in the short-term, "Here's to you, Mrs.Robinson"?

Gives the First, er, (DUP) Minister's spouse a mention and certainly not offensive to Nationalists....

They also need to get rid of the b*stardised Red Hand flag. What's wrong with the traditional yellow, or did they really want to mimic the English that much ??

[Mr_Parker]

Dated currently by a month or so, but what about in the short-term, "Here's to you, Mrs.Robinson"?

Gives the First, er, (DUP) Minister's spouse a mention and certainly not offensive to Nationalists....

They also need to get rid of the b*stardised Red Hand flag. What's wrong with the traditional yellow, or did they really want to mimic the English that much ??

The 'yellow' flag does not represent NI. It is a '9 county' Ulster Flag.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The 'yellow' flag does not represent NI. It is a '9 county' Ulster Flag.

Aye, I do know. Was being ironic....

[seanfhear]

Would'nt it be a good idea if the IFA divested itself of Orangemen at the higher echelons if it were truly extending the welcoming hand to players from a Nationalist backround.

They should get their own house in order before they start thrashing about looking for others to blame.

[SilkCut]

Would'nt it be a good idea if the IFA divested itself of Orangemen at the higher echelons if it were truly extending the welcoming hand to players from a Nationalist backround.

They should get their own house in order before they start thrashing about looking for others to blame.

It would be a good idea but they shouldn't have to, it's part of their culture. If they don't want to change anything they do though they will have to accept that any player born in NI can represent either the ROI or NI and will likely represent the country they have most affinity with. I don't know why we need to go into qualification requirements so deeply on this thread (interesting though they are) as the simple fact is, if you are born in NI you are entitled to Irish citizenship and can therefore play for either country and as such we can recruit if we feel like it.

[dantheman]

Got a feeling that we're not going to get an answer from the OWC brigade.

Agree with the post above, let them have GSTQ, UJ & Orangemen running the show, just accept that the likes of Duffy, Gibson etc are going to throw their lot in with the Republic.
Its the way to go IMHO.

We can have one uber-British team based in the 5-shed stadium, and in the 5-star Aviva another one for the decent people on this island...

[geysir]

Compared to what they were, Orangemen these days are a fading social and political irrelevance, more of an anthropologist's curiosity.
It's peculiar the issues the OWC get all hot and bothered about, rip roaring mad about how they are depicted in that Night (19 years ago!) in November comedy play, they can fly into a fury and get organised about the Maze stadium, go on ranting and raving about their players being kidnapped but hardly a whimper about that GSTQ. They love belting out that anthem before games. GSTQ as the anthem, isn't an issue they feel slightly indignant about, bar a few half hearted polite discussions. Not that I actually think dropping it would make any real difference at this stage. The NI team ( even with nationalist players) is the team for the vastly predominant Unionist identity, with a veneer of an aspiration to be a team that represents all NI people.

[dantheman]

Compared to what they were, Orangemen these days are a fading social and political irrelevance, more of an anthropologist's curiosity.
It's peculiar the issues the OWC get all hot and bothered about, rip roaring mad about how they are depicted in that Night (19 years ago!) in November comedy play, they can fly into a fury and get organised about the Maze stadium, go on ranting and raving about their players being kidnapped but hardly a whimper about that GSTQ. They love belting out that anthem before games. GSTQ as the anthem, isn't an issue they feel slightly indignant about, bar a few half hearted polite discussions. Not that I actually think dropping it would make any real difference at this stage. The NI team ( even with nationalist players) is the team for the vastly predominant Unionist identity, with a veneer of an aspiration to be a team that represents all NI people.

That's about right!

McGinn & McCourt should meet up with Chester Williams.

NI has catholic players you know. There's one or two of them "about the place"....

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/Harbour_Rat/IMG_0680.jpg

[Nedser]

16 Nationality entitling players to represent
more than one Association
1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.


I now see the three (or four, even) criteria to which you were presumably referring in Article 16, fhtb. Apologies. I'll come back and deal with these in more depth when I have time. It could be a day or two, but for now with just a quick reading, I don't see how they necessarily need apply in the case of northern-borns whose Irish nationality allows for them to represent only one association. Unless Irish nationality also allows you to represent Northern Ireland... But it doesn't strictly, because an Irish national born in Dublin cannot represent Northern Ireland, or technically shouldn't be able to anyway unless FIFA have dictated some bizarre rule allowing it as a compromise. I have heard mention of that, but I don't really know if it's the case or not at all. Maybe someone could confirm it...

This is actually very interesting as there are 2 ways that I can see of interpreting Article 16:

1. It means that if nationality of one country (i.e. UK) entitles you to represent more than one association (i.e. NI, Scotland, Wales or England), then in addition to holding UK nationality, you also have to satisfy one of the conditions in Article 16. I think this is what it means - i.e. it's just to ensure that people with UK nationality aren't automatically entitled to play for 4 different national teams (a la Maik Taylor).

2. It could also be interpreted to mean that if a player has more than one nationality, then he must meet one of the criteria in Article 16 in addition to holding that nationality. In other words, if a player was born in Belfast and holds both Irish and British nationality, then he would only be eligible for ROI if he meets criteria b, c or d in Article 16. I think this is what the IFA are arguing. The sad thing is, they might have a case, as the wording above is not 100% clear.

If the IFA successfully argue that interpretation 2 is correct, then it gets more interesting, as it would mean players born in the North would generally not be eligible for ROI if they hold both British and Irish nationality, but they would be eligible for ROI if they hold Irish nationality only. Geysir insists that everyone born in NI is automatically both British and Irish, whereas others, including myself and Mr Parker, believe they have the right to choose, as that's what the GFA states.

[Charlie Darwin]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...t/IMG_0680.jpg

hahaha that is pretty good though

[ArdeeBhoy]

H*nry a Prod? Somehow I doubt it. And even if he was, why would he want to join that paranoid rabble??

Geysir insists that everyone born in NI is automatically both British and Irish, whereas others, including myself and Mr Parker, believe they have the right to choose, as that's what the GFA states.

The former is now, bizarrely, how an ever increasing number of unionists now 'claim' to see themselves, after centuries denying they were anything but....

Hmm. There's a very strange stench about the place because of that.