Andy Reid's exclusion

[geysir]

The greater conundrum is the subs bench pecking order.
It's if S Reid gets injured then Miller will be the sub
If Hunt gets injured then Keogh will replace him.

I'd say even Andy Reid's farts smell sweeter than those two.

[Noelys Guitar]

The greater conundrum is the subs bench pecking order.
It's if S Reid gets injured then Miller will be the sub
If Hunt gets injured then Keogh will replace him.

I'd say even Andy Reid's farts smell sweeter than those two.

My worry is if we go behind in either game or are struggling at 0-0. Bringing on Miller or Keogh is unlikely to change anything. And I don't buy Reid can't cover the ground theory. He lasted 120mins against Forest for Sunderland and was the best player on the pitch. Against City the whole Sunderland collapsed after the first goal.

[Wexford Delboy]

My worry is if we go behind in either game or are struggling at 0-0. Bringing on Miller or Keogh is unlikely to change anything. And I don't buy Reid can't cover the ground theory. He lasted 120mins against Forest for Sunderland and was the best player on the pitch. Against City the whole Sunderland collapsed after the first goal.

i know it was only a friendly but against serbia keogh came on and made a difference

[Stuttgart88]

The greater conundrum is the subs bench pecking order.
It's if S Reid gets injured then Miller will be the sub
If Hunt gets injured then Keogh will replace him.
You'd kind of hope / expect that a manager would introduce subs depending on what's required rather than by using a pecking order.

[geysir]

My point being that whatever is needed at CM, Miller is overshadowed by Andy Reid in all aspects of the game.
Same would be if a RM was needed, then he overshadows anything that Keogh can do out there.

[Stuttgart88]

Overshadowed isn't another weight reference I presume!

[geysir]

That's just another aspect he overshadows them in:)

[bobloblaw]

Think its showing a real lack of ambition that we can't find a place in our side for by far our most creative talent. I'm not bothered if he doesn't play on the left, because quite simply Hunt and Keogh are better options out there, so fair enough.

And it irks me that he appears to be getting punished for his creativity, because whenever i've watched him he's more than willing to put in the leg work too. He's not one to just swan around the pitch with his thumb up his arse.

So get him in the side, drop Doyle, who should be nowhere near our side at present. He's been garbage for months now.

I'm all for giving Trap time, but if we lose games or drop points because we lack a bit of creativity(while Reid sits on the bench) we'll know why.

[hunt4the]

no surprise reid is'nt in trap's plans given his defensive mindset,
I think he's right going with whelan though gives us much more balance,
i can't remember andy reid in a midfield pairing ever being anyways convincing

[irishfan86]

i can't remember andy reid in a midfield pairing ever being anyways convincing

Didn't watch our game against Germany last time around, eh?

[superfrank]

Here's Trap's thoughts on Glenn Whelan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7599194.stm

I'd rather see Reid ahead of Whelan but none of us see what goes on on the football pitch and none of us know what Trap wants from his midfield. Give Whelan a chance and see how he does against Georgia today.

[dr_peepee]

Maybe it's his weight after all??? I was hoping to see a change after a proper pre season but none came....

[Wheels]

1. Could Trap be keeping Andy as a secret weapon for the first BIG game?

2. Could Trap be hoping to push Andy to the next level to prove himself? Maybe he thinks he is now very good... but could be great?

3. Or could I just be deluding myself... :rolleyes:

[Scram]

My worry is if we go behind in either game or are struggling at 0-0. Bringing on Miller or Keogh is unlikely to change anything. And I don't buy Reid can't cover the ground theory. He lasted 120mins against Forest for Sunderland and was the best player on the pitch. Against City the whole Sunderland collapsed after the first goal.


Yeah, he was all over the pitch (in a good way!) v Forest. I'm astonished that he played no part v Georgia. Miller before Reid??? Where, when, why???

I'd worry now that if Andy does come on he has that sh!t feeling that he has to prove himself and can't relax in to his game.

What is going on? Did Andy steal Trappa's pizza or what?

[tetsujin1979]

I was watching the highlights of the weekend's games on Setanta. Pat Dolan was convinced that Andy Reid is being kept out of the team by Trapattoni for a personal reason, that Reid had offended him in some way. The host (sorry, can't think of his name) rightly called him on this, said it was unlikely, at best.

[irishultra]

Pat Dolan was talking **** as usual....I swear I think its when he's not eating he needs to occupy himself by talking ****, as opposed to his diet where he eats ****.

[hunt4the]

Didn't watch our game against Germany last time around, eh?

yea was at that game, and germans werent even trying,
we were just playing for pride only

[Splurge]

To be honest i'd rate Stephen Reid of the two and Whelean is in to do a job that Andy is in no way cut out to do.
It's up to Andy now to push for a place and not be sulking that Trappa's english isnt the best.

[Scram]

I was watching the highlights of the weekend's games on Setanta. Pat Dolan was convinced that Andy Reid is being kept out of the team by Trapattoni for a personal reason, that Reid had offended him in some way. The host (sorry, can't think of his name) rightly called him on this, said it was unlikely, at best.

I heard that Andy ate Trappatoni's Domino's Pepperoni Pizza and Trappa found out. When you steal a pizza for the Capo De Tutti Capa you end up with da fishes wearing concrete boots.

But seriously Ted, it does seem bizarre and certainly insulting that Trappa De Tutti Capa would put on Miller and Keogh before Andy. He has to be wondering himself what's gone wrong.

Let's not forget that leaving Carlsley out of the side and then Andy on the bench (v the Czechs?) was the beginning of the end of Staunton!

The comments that "Andy cannot do Glenn Whelan's job" are nonsense to anyone who's ACTUALLY watched Andy play lately.

He will have to feature against Montenegro. If not, and we lose, on Trappa's head be it!

[irishultra]

Papers seem to think his injury in May and missing out on Portugal means Trapattoni can't find a system for him, but surely a manager on his salary and prestige should be able.

[seanfhear]

Could Andy Reid play behind the striker instead of Robbie Keane with either Robbie or Kevin Doyle as the main striker.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, I think he could and Trap said as much around the time of the Norway game I think. Trap has also said he sees Robbie playing a "Totti style" role.

Reid played eaxctly this role against France in Paris after Morrisson went off injured I think. He was still relatively unknown at Forest at the time and it's not quite comparing like with like as he's a more accomplished player now.

[Pike B]

Could Andy Reid play behind the striker instead of Robbie Keane with either Robbie or Kevin Doyle as the main striker.
Yes he could. And should.

[seanfhear]

If he can play this role then if any one of these players is missing through injury or suspension we still have two quality forwards.

[irishfan86]

Yes he could. And should.

So what do you suggest? Dropping Robbie Keane?

Keane isn't built to be a lone striker, and he's not going to be dropped.

From reading Trap's comments, it seems to me that Andy Reid is almost cover for Robbie Keane.

[DmanDmythDledge]

To be honest i'd rate Stephen Reid of the two and Whelean is in to do a job that Andy is in no way cut out to do.
:confused: Have you seen him play lately? It's more or less the exact role.

[FarBeag]

Leaving Andy Reid out of the Irish team is like leaving Deco out of the Portugal team or Xavi or Iniesta out of the Spanish setup. It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[EastTerracer]

Leaving Andy Reid out of the Irish team is like leaving Deco out of the Portugal team or Xavi or Iniesta out of the Spanish setup.

I've mentioned on here before that Trapattoni, like Jack Charlton in the past, is a manager who believes that the system is more important than individual players. Charlton struggled to fit Liam Brady into his system and Trapattoni usually kept Del Piero on the bench throughout his Italian stewardship. Roberto Baggio struggled to get into his plans as well.

Reid is not at the fitness level he should be at for an International footballer. He is fantastic on the ball but Trapp wants a completely different type of midfield player (Andy is no Gattuso!). As for playing him wide I just don't think he has the legs to play in that position without badly exposing the full-backs. Watch any of Reid's 90 minute games in the last campaign and he slows up noticeably in the 2nd half (especially on a big pitch like Croke Park).

Hopefully Trapp will find a way to accommodate him as he's great on the ball but I think Reid may need to work on his physical conditioning first.

[the-blue-harp]

Papers seem to think his injury in May and missing out on Portugal means Trapattoni can't find a system for him, but surely a manager on his salary and prestige should be able.

why should trap be forced into finding a system, that HE as manager isn't happy playing, to accomodate one player?? is he getting paid to find a system for andy reid? he is getting paid to find a system for the irish TEAM so we can qualify for the world cup. I'm sure he knows a system that andy reid could play in, but he feels its not the right one for the team. at the moment.

people sayin that it's a personal argument don't have a clue. Its a tactical one, and trap is being strong and going with his head which has seen him take 23 titles in world football. you can't argue with his logic either. but it seems we have to find something to complain about. even though is still unbeaten as irish manager.

I'm not saying because of his reputation he is unquestionable,but I am saying he is doing his job.

What is all this hype about andy reid? he is not a worldbeater anyway. He doesn't have the athletic ability to control a game. on his skill yes i do agree he is good when he has the ball, but can he maintain 90 mins of it in Montenegro in 37 degrees celcius, i dont think he can. If andy reid was so good he'd be playing at a bigger club for a longer spell of time. he is by and large in england classed as a championship player. and the reason for this is he drifts out of games, and he isn't reliable. he has too many off days. he is often out of shape and not fit enough to rely on for a season long campaign

i'm not writing this to wind anyone up, i'm just looking at it from a personal view that hasn't been waivered by the scum media. who for no other reason than to sell papers are doing their best to have a go at trap. sensationalist journalism, don't buy into it.

[dr_peepee]

From reading Trap's comments, it seems to me that Andy Reid is almost cover for Robbie Keane.

That'll be the litmus test for Andy Reids career under Trapp.. Keanes unavailibilty.

[seanfhear]

Leaving Andy Reid out of the Irish team is like leaving Deco out of the Portugal team or Xavi or Iniesta out of the Spanish setup. It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Interesting point but we are not Portugal or Spain and we are giving away soft/late goals.If and when we sort this out then maybe we can play a more attacking game.Andy has to knuckle down and prove to the manager that he has to be in the team.

[Stuttgart88]

Emmet Malone this morning says that there's a feeling that Andy Reid could have made the Portugal trip as he was tired rather than injured and is paying the price. At least, unlike O'Leary after the Iceland affair, Reid is actually in the squad.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I've mentioned on here before that Trapattoni, like Jack Charlton in the past, is a manager who believes that the system is more important than individual players. Charlton struggled to fit Liam Brady into his system and Trapattoni usually kept Del Piero on the bench throughout his Italian stewardship. Roberto Baggio struggled to get into his plans as well.

Reid is not at the fitness level he should be at for an International footballer. He is fantastic on the ball but Trapp wants a completely different type of midfield player (Andy is no Gattuso!). As for playing him wide I just don't think he has the legs to play in that position without badly exposing the full-backs. Watch any of Reid's 90 minute games in the last campaign and he slows up noticeably in the 2nd half (especially on a big pitch like Croke Park).

Hopefully Trapp will find a way to accommodate him as he's great on the ball but I think Reid may need to work on his physical conditioning first.


I wouldn't necesserally agree with that, Charlton accomodated Brady by insisting that he play where and in the manner that he was told to or else forget about playing and Brady grudgingly accepted this. Fact is that Brady had been very average for the bulk of Eoin Hand's reign despite being at the peak of his club career at that stage but had a magnificent campaign playing in Charlton's system during the Euro 88 qualifiers.

Outside of that some well made points. It's a slightly different scenario now, my take on it is that Trap still doesn't have complete confidence in our defence, particulalry through the middle and therefore wants extra cover which comes in the form of Whelan. I don't want to drag O'Shea into this after a reasonable performance from him on Saturday (his header at goal aside) but he does have a tendency to lapse in concentration so Whelan is essentially an insurance policy for that. For Andy Reid to play then Stephen Reid would have to sit back more and play the deeper role.

This would leave us with Andy picking out passes in midfield (think of the raking passes he was spraying around against Germany at home last campaign) whereas I think Trap prefers the likes of Stephen driving through midfield, taking the ball forward and laying it off between halfway and the final third which isn't really Andy's game. I would've had both Reid's in my team prior to the Norway game but I don't know at this stage if I'd sacrifice the energy going forward that Stephen has shown since then for the vision and passing that Andy brings. That said I still rate him highly and bringing Miller (a championship player at best) on ahead of him baffled me.

In games where we need to be more positive particulalry at home I'd like to think there's still an opportunity for Andy but Trap's the boss and as long as we keep winning I'll bow to his knowledge.....

[paul_oshea]

ya you might bow but eventually we could end up becoming very boring to watch and people will soon get agitated with this style, personally I wouldn't care.

Reading what Dunne has said and Trap stubborness to progress with Whelan, it sounds as though trap put a serious amount of his own time watching Irelands previous matches, and more importantly where we lost these matches. He came to the conclusion that we make silly mistakes and are never completely assured for the whole 90 mins, given that he knows he needs two defensive minded midfielders to cover the eventuality that this lack of concentration brings. He now plays a midfielder who tackles track backs and makes the simple pass, he needs another to drive through the midfield and pass around and forward, and who will always show and look for the pass, almost as thought he is playing a two game plan, the defenders and backs stick together and do their job defensively, nothing more nothing less, and the wingers and two forwards play their own game when they get it and keep it at that end.

[colster]

Yes, I think he could and Trap said as much around the time of the Norway game I think. Trap has also said he sees Robbie playing a "Totti style" role.

Reid played eaxctly this role against France in Paris after Morrisson went off injured I think. He was still relatively unknown at Forest at the time and it's not quite comparing like with like as he's a more accomplished player now.

I don't think Reid scores enough goals to play this role

[Supreme feet]

I thought of another analogy for the Reid situation - during the 2002 qualifiers, Duff was constantly left out in favour of McAteer and Kilbane - even Gary Kelly was picked ahead of him on the wing. These were very conservative tactics, to leave out one of our most exciting young attacking players - but they worked, as Kilbane gave great protection to Harte, and McAteer worked hard and chipped in with some deserved goals. Undoubtedly, Duff was more talented than Kilbane and McAteer, but he was a victim of tactics. We weren't complaining though, as we were doing well. Duff eventually got into the team out of position up front, because of Quinn's gradual lack of match-fitness. Likewise, if Keane gets injured, Reid will come in.

Reid is at his best in a free role. At the moment, Trap feels that he needs to sort out the defensive side of things - it's been our weakness for the last six years, and while he shores things up, he obviously doesn't want too much 'creative' freedom for our midfielders. If Trap's been watching the DVDs, he'll have noted the Cyprus game in Croker, where Reid was outmuscled and outnumbered in the centre by the Cypriot midfielders. Solidity is what's important for us at the moment.

[eirebhoy]

he is by and large in england classed as a championship player. and the reason for this is he drifts out of games, and he isn't reliable. he has too many off days. he is often out of shape and not fit enough to rely on for a season long campaign
Igorance at best. He was probably Charlton's best player up until he got injured before Christmas a couple of seasons ago. We then heard he'd be out for the rest of the season and a Charlton website was saying how much they would miss the "inspirational" Reid. The next season in the Championship he was in fine form again and was club captain. Charlton were in 3rd place when he got injured again just before Christmas. It didn't put Keane off signing him and Charlton slipped down to 11th without him.

When he joined Sunderland last season he was incredibly consistent. He won 15 bonus points in the fantasy football in his 13 games (judged by ex-pro's). The only players to get bonus points at that rate would be the best and most influential midfielders in the league. I would say he's Sunderland's best player more often than not which is incredible in itself. Anyway, you shouldn't need fantasy football bonus points to tell you that Reid has been excellent for years now, bar his time at Spurs. Anyone that followed his career would know that.

He's one of the best passers in the premiership, without a doubt.

[boovidge]

Yeah Reid is very highly raited by commentators and pundits in England.

[Carrigaline]

Reid is not at the fitness level he should be at for an International footballer.
You honestly think that international football is more physically intensive than the Premier League?


but I think Reid may need to work on his physical conditioning first.
If you've watched Reid this season, you'd know that he's started every single game and was only taken off once (with a few minutes to go). Whatever people say about his physique, there are ZERO issues with his fitness.

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah Reid is very highly raited by commentators and pundits in England.I've read hacks with no reason to talk Reid up singing his praises to the hilt. He's a rarity in the modern English game, a playmaking midfielder.

[tetsujin1979]

Charlton were in 3rd place when he got injured again just before Christmas. It didn't put Keane off signing him and Charlton slipped down to 11th without him.
Just on that, Charlton only lost 1 away games when Andy Reid played until he left, after he was gone, they only had 2 more away wins all season!

[Noelys Guitar]

Very interesting comments from Trap on Reid, Murphy, Long and Keogh.

The manager also had encouraging words for players who have not yet broken into what is becoming an increasingly settled first XI – including Irish football’s latest cause celebre, Andy Reid.

“I know from when I played football what it’s like to sit on the bench – and I was never happy. Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that (Robbie) Keane and (Kevin) Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem. I thought also about bringing on (Daryl) Murphy because his style is different. But that’s normal – before every game I write who might come in for someone else but then, on the pitch itself, it’s not always possible to make those changes.

“In future, we will look at other players – maybe in the friendly game against Poland. We might look at (Shane) Long and (Andy) Keogh, say. For that reason it’s very important that the young players, in particular, get games for their clubs.”

[EastTerracer]

If you've watched Reid this season, you'd know that he's started every single game and was only taken off once (with a few minutes to go). Whatever people say about his physique, there are ZERO issues with his fitness.

I've seen plenty of Andy Reid over the last 5 years or so (going back to his Forest days). He paces himself very well in most games and as a result he can maintain his level of passing and distribution during a game. However, if you ask him to play box-to-box during a game - helping out his defence as well as creating up front - his legs will not last 90 minutes. He showed this in Croke Park last campaign in more than one game. Great skill but the guy is not fit and hasn't been since before he joined Spurs.

[Stuttgart88]

Very interesting comments from Trap on Reid, Murphy, Long and Keogh.

The manager also had encouraging words for players who have not yet broken into what is becoming an increasingly settled first XI – including Irish football’s latest cause celebre, Andy Reid.

“I know from when I played football what it’s like to sit on the bench – and I was never happy. Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that (Robbie) Keane and (Kevin) Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem. I thought also about bringing on (Daryl) Murphy because his style is different. But that’s normal – before every game I write who might come in for someone else but then, on the pitch itself, it’s not always possible to make those changes.

“In future, we will look at other players – maybe in the friendly game against Poland. We might look at (Shane) Long and (Andy) Keogh, say. For that reason it’s very important that the young players, in particular, get games for their clubs.”Interesting quote - worth putting in the Trap Quotes thread. Gives a good insight into what he was thinking and it's great that someone saw fit to publish it.

"Stan, what substitutions could you have made?"

"You tell me?"

[lionelhutz]

“I know from when I played football what it’s like to sit on the bench – and I was never happy. Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that (Robbie) Keane and (Kevin) Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem.

I'm delighted to hear that Andy Reid is very definitely in his plans. I was a bit worried since he didn't get a run in the past two games.

Though I find it very interesting that he keeps talking about Andy Reid playing off another striker. This isn't his usual position. He plays deep in midfield more often than not, taking the ball off the defence and pulling the strings. I still think he'd do very well in that position where he'd be able to pick holes in the defence.

[tetsujin1979]

He plays deep in midfield more often than not, taking the ball off the defence and pulling the strings. I still think he'd do very well in that position where he'd be able to pick holes in the defence.
I think he'd play well in that position too. Unfortunately for him, that's Glenn Whelan's position now, and is his to lose, rather than Reid's to gain.

[dr_peepee]

Though I find it very interesting that he keeps talking about Andy Reid playing off another striker. This isn't his usual position. He plays deep in midfield more often than not, taking the ball off the defence and pulling the strings. I still think he'd do very well in that position where he'd be able to pick holes in the defence.

It's where he excelled for Charlton, and he's at his best for Sunderland in a five man midfield.

Lads, Reid cannot play deep. He can't tackle and isn't sharp enough off the ball.. Did you see him against City?? I seen that before from him for Ireland and Charlton.

I'd start him if it was me but now it seems Reid is competing with Robbie Keane now for a place in the team.

[eirebhoy]

Lads, Reid cannot play deep. He can't tackle and isn't sharp enough off the ball..
Pirlo...

David Dunn and Reid played together a lot in a 4-4-2. I don't think Dunn is great defensively.

[Closed Account]

Pirlo...

David Dunn and Reid played together a lot in a 4-4-2. I don't think Dunn is great defensively.

Eh.......... I think he meant Andy Reid...........

[Noelys Guitar]

Reid dropped by Sunderland to the bench.