Sporting Fingal to be offered First Division place [Archive] - Page 2

pineapple stu

18/01/2008, 10:41 PM

One thing which troubles me somewhat.

How can a club which never existed 3 months or so ago (Fingal) be top of the IAG rankings ahead of established and trophy winning clubs such as Salthill Devon and Tullamore?

Something don't add up here

Because they have PLANS.

Do you not remember what a load of ****** it was from the last time?

Also, this means that there's going to be one less team in the A League. How's that going to work? Is there another team going to come in and take Fingal's place (assuming they take the First Division spot, which I'm sure they will), or will we have one team less than originally planned and so (presumably) an odd number of teams in one league?

pete

18/01/2008, 10:56 PM

The first division in its current format has no future. This will not change by reducing Premier & adding two more to the 1st division.

Maybe the AIL will solve everything but time to think about a single maybe 16 team league. Surely clubs need at least average crowds of 500 to keep even a semi-pro side going?

I don't think Sporting Fingal is a good addition as they just replacing Home Farm. Extra Dublin clubs bring nothing to the league as they just recycle the same players. Would be better to have 9 teams in 1st division

dcfcsteve

18/01/2008, 11:03 PM

I think scrappingthe First Division would be a good idea & making a Premier Division into 16-20 teams league would make much more sense. It would give all the smaller clubs a better chance of survival as they would get bigger crowds from playing the bigger clubs and it should attract more interest locally. (any 1st Division club would benefit from the cwrods when playing against Cork, Drogs, Derry, Pats, Bohs, Rovers, etc.)

Clubs who finish rock bottom or if clubs fail to keep the pace(financially, etc.), then they should be relagted down to the A championship, which could be used as a buffer with the winners being promoted should they have their affairs/liscence criteria up to standard.

That way, you have just 1 league to promote to the bigger audience and you still have your promotion/relegation with only 1 team going up & one going down to keep it intersesting at that end of the table.

Understatemnet of the year!

I can't believe that people are suggesting a return to the days of an expanded single 16-or-so team Premier Division, a la the Famous Fried Chicken League days !! :eek: This is insanity of the highest order !!

There is a reason why pretty much every league in Europe has the same model we do. Even those slow learners in the Irish League...

Absolute insanity.

passerrby

18/01/2008, 11:17 PM

I can't believe that people are suggesting a return to the days of an expanded single 16-or-so team Premier Division, a la the Famous Fried Chicken League days !! :eek: This is insanity of the highest order !!

There is a reason why pretty much every league in Europe has the same model we do. Even those slow learners in the Irish League...

Absolute insanity.

dont the premiership have 22 teams .

dcfcsteve

18/01/2008, 11:21 PM

Possibly, but there are similarities in that they're an ego trip who seem to be quite happy to run up large costs without any solid basis for knowing what their income is going to be. In addition, they're a franchise team set up with no history and, regardless of how big your catchment area, in Dublin anyways, that just ain't going to work very well. If nothing else, recent eL history tells us that.

More importantly - it's not Sporting Fingal's (henceforth 'Spouting Fungus) money that will be spent on this project. It will be extremely diffiuclt for a new team like them to be able to finance a serious footballing challenge (as they claim they want to do) purely on matchday revenues and sponsorship.

That leaves the conclusion that Fingal allegedly-a-County Council (FaaCC) will have to put money into the club. That presents 2 serious dangers, both based on the fact Spouting Fungus will be spending other people's money :

1) THE BOOM
As a certain part of their funds will be 'not their money', there is a danger that Spouting Fungus won't feel the need to be as frugal, or even sensible, with their expenditures as they might otherwise be. It's a vanity project for a local authority, that has openely stated its ambitions to be successful. That can only be achieved by securing decent players. Whenever Fungus wants more money to do this, the club need merely refer to the 'vision' and massage the egos of those involved at FaaCC, and hey presto - increased budget (with the Council doubtless claiming they are 'investing in sport', rather than blowing it on senior player wages).

2) THE BUST
As Spouting Fungus will rely at least to some degree upon 'public' money - with a degree of accountability behind it (albit with a serious time-lag, based on elections) - there is a danger that the rug could be completely pulled from underneath Funguis's feet at any point. Opposition parties could easily point to a paucity of youth and sporting activities in their area, and make a direct connection with the money being 'wasted' on a small number of sports-people's wages/training/facilities in a vanity project for the ruling party/Council Officers. Even if this didn't happen, Council budgets can change dramatically on a year-to-year basis as priorities shift (and as more pressing needs develop financial black holes that need filling). This is the recipe for the 'bust' in the boom-and-bust scenario for Fungus.

None of the above may happen, but I have a very, very uneasy feeling about Spouting Fungus. Their public proclamations that they will be radically different than anything else, ever, honest, is casue enough for concern in my books. We've heard it numerous times before, but never seen it delivered. If they do plan to be different, just get on and do it and let the difference talk for itself...

dcfcsteve

18/01/2008, 11:23 PM

dont the premiership have 22 teams .

And 72 senior teams below that.

Followed by at least 6 further directly-linked levels in the pyramid below those.

What's your point ? :confused:

Mr A

18/01/2008, 11:41 PM

Didn't Letterkenny apply and were turned down?

If so, that'd imply all applicant clubs had to make an IAG type application just to join the A league, so there was one ready available for them to pick a First Division team. Still not the best of ways of doing it though.

You have to have a First Division to avoid stagnation. Promotion and relegation are an essential part of any league.

As far as I know, No, Letterkenny did not apply.

Risteard

19/01/2008, 12:34 AM

Bohs, Shelbourne, Bray, Shamrock Rovers, Sporting Fingal, St. Pats, UCD.
No.
Why not include Drogheda then?

I don't think its necessarily a bad thing adding another Dub team but I'd expect them to struggle to establish themselves and recruit a following.

I mean the thing with Seery is why did he start afresh and not build on Home Farms considerable legacy or merely plough his money into Shels, Bohs, Pats or Rovers? Did DCFC put considerable money into the off-pitch infrastructure?

higgins

19/01/2008, 1:09 AM

I have to laugh at people calling for the First Division to just go !! :)

What in the name of jaysus do you think will happen!! You need a pool there below the premier. You need to have 10 or so teams fighting it out and the ones that do well get promoted and in theory at least make the Premier stronger.

If you get rid of that buffer you will have serious problems. It's not as simple as getting rid of the First and therefore all the money and supporters will switch to the Premier teams.

Madness..

Anyway what would be the difference calling the First Division the A league. Do you want no feeder league ???

As for it not making sense financially, Well! it's not like all Premier teams are rolling in cash either is it. As a Shelbourne fan I can see exactly what the First division has to offer. It's a place where you can survive with little or no money to be honest. It's easier to get your house in order and build some structure.

As for the Dublin clubs. If teams can be sustained in the league and are based in Dublin then so what exactly ?? It would be great to have teams in all major towns and cities but that's something the FAI will have to work on on a very long term basis.

To be honest the problems at Kilkenny seem to be that nobody wanted to continue with things. It seemed to revolve around two people for the most part and due to circumstances they can't continue with it.

If there were a few Kilkenny fans really interested in keeping it going, it seems to me that it would be possible.

Why did Dublin City get bashed for having 100-200 fans yet Kilkenny who offer up about 30 or 40 are different ?

Mr A

19/01/2008, 1:12 AM

As for the Dublin clubs. If teams can be sustained in the league and are based in Dublin then so what exactly ??

So you're from Dublin.

No one likes you.

Sniffer

19/01/2008, 9:20 AM

OK, the Dublin team country team thing. Higgo is right in pointing out that Sporting Fingal probably will garner greater attendances than Kilkenny City - even if it's just wives,family and confused country folk who took a wrong turn on the way to Dalymount or Tolka.:) The greater picture cries out for teams spread across the country such as Tullamore, Kilkenny etc. Unfortunately the reality is that most of these clubs seem to be a sneeze away from collapse most of the time owing to a deep lack of interest locally.

Team X - local side, successful in provincial terms, strong local support, makes the step up to A Championship or 1st Division. After a while they realise that their pool of local talent is insufficient to sustain them - they are strugglingat the higher level. Bring in a few Dubs to improve things. Locals get p'd off at the 'big-time' players coming in and lose interest.

Still there must be a pyramid system however formatted; a league without relegation is a non-entity; relegation battles are just as intriguing as title chases - without the quality.

Rocky77

19/01/2008, 12:05 PM

And we'll call the goalkeeper ..... a custodian

(I always wanted to write a match report in the style of a gaa report...Williamson at top of the left evaded stalwart defender Doyle and progressed into the large parallelogram where he rifled the leather past Murphy the custodian and into the back of the onion bag.... I'm sure these terms were original once, but they are now hackneyed cliches)

To be honest, I've never read a match report specific to GAA in this style. Perhaps broadcasters of yesteryear were, but maybe I'm not old enough.

Some of the soccer writers in this country don't have an original thought in their heads either, it seems and are as guilty as anybody for god awful phases like 'custodian'. I dabble in the media underworld myself and it really ****es me off.

Like the word 'hugely'. Has anyone ever used that word in everyday speak? But it's newspaper fodder - hugely impressive, hugely important etc

I'm, ranting, sorry.

pineapple stu

19/01/2008, 2:41 PM

As for the Dublin clubs. If teams can be sustained in the league and are based in Dublin then so what exactly ??
But the problem is that they can't be sustained. Home Farm, St James' Gate, Shelbourne, St Francis and Dublin City have all shown us this.

Why did Dublin City get bashed for having 100-200 fans yet Kilkenny who offer up about 30 or 40 are different ?
Because Kilkenny City at least knew their place and didn't try to spend hundreds of thousands they didn't have while spouting nonsense about some grandiose vision of playing in Croker in the Champions' League.

Also, Kilkenny City and Dublin City had about the same fan base.

Jerry The Saint

19/01/2008, 3:14 PM

I mean the thing with Seery is why did he start afresh and not build on Home Farms considerable legacy

The thing is, he did initally with Home Farm Fingal which had the exact same aim of building a Fingal identity as this new club, only with the added history of HF. It didn't even have the limited short-term success that Dublin City did.

The only thing different that I can see is that SF has the backing of Fingal CC who didn't want to get left behind after South Dublin CC's move into football.

There is something fishy about this and if our media wasn't so obsessed with the senior international team, I'm sure there is scope to do a bit of digging and raise some important questions to the FAI. Daniel McDonnell and Emmet Malone are the only two who might have the inclination to do so but would such an article even get published?

Dodge

19/01/2008, 4:16 PM

The only thing different that I can see is that SF has the backing of Fingal CC who didn't want to get left behind after South Dublin CC's move into football.

Its more to do with certain Fingal councillors and their aim to create a completely seperate county :rolleyes:

dcfcsteve

19/01/2008, 4:57 PM

Like the word 'hugely'. Has anyone ever used that word in everyday speak? But it's newspaper fodder - hugely impressive, hugely important etc

Do I ever use the word ? Yes - hugely....! :D

dcfcsteve

19/01/2008, 4:59 PM

Why did Dublin City get bashed for having 100-200 fans yet Kilkenny who offer up about 30 or 40 are different ?

Since when did Continuity Home Farm have that many home fans....!?!? :confused:

Martinho II

19/01/2008, 7:53 PM

Because they have PLANS.

Do you not remember what a load of ****** it was from the last time?

Also, this means that there's going to be one less team in the A League. How's that going to work? Is there another team going to come in and take Fingal's place (assuming they take the First Division spot, which I'm sure they will), or will we have one team less than originally planned and so (presumably) an odd number of teams in one league?

asked fran gavin that question pineapple stu he sais that there is nobody to replace them as it has got past the cut off period..

Sonic

19/01/2008, 8:08 PM

Dodge

19/01/2008, 8:55 PM

But as usual the Fai let football in this country down.:(:(:(

The people of the country let football down. They had a team in Kilkenny and no one cared enough to go to the games. And no one cared enough to set up a club anywhere else

onceahoop

19/01/2008, 9:03 PM

Drogs new stadium is being built in Drogheda which has always taken in parts of meath county on the northern part of town . And you cant get a dart or Dublin bus to Drogheda .

Er!! Yes you can get a Dublin Bus to Drogheda. Number 101.

Dodge

19/01/2008, 9:10 PM

Er!! Yes you can get a Dublin Bus to Drogheda. Number 101.

Thats a bus eirinn bus

pineapple stu

19/01/2008, 9:13 PM

Is there a bus to Newbridge? Pretty sure there's one to Celbridge anyways.

GavinZac

19/01/2008, 9:15 PM

And no one cared enough to set up a club anywhere elseYou'll find that there are a few hundred other football clubs in the country, Dodge, just not ones being pushed onwards by a madcap "county council". As for the name... well, at least Youths was somewhat original. This crowd appear to have looked up wikipedia for clubs ending in -AL.

dcfcsteve

19/01/2008, 9:19 PM

Do we really need another Dublin team in the league! And I say that honestly. Surely we should be trying to incorporate other areas of the country much like when Wexford Youths joined! I dont really see the point of sporting Fingal it might just be another Dublin City. In any case very sad about Kilkenny but like Longford if the locals cant get out to support the team you run the risk of this happeneing. LEts just hope another club doesnt fall by the wayside. And also to finish up surely the fai could in some capacity help a struggling club like kilkenny. It wouldnt do any harm to their coffers to subdidise them for a year I mean they cant be running off that high a wage bill. Debts may have been the real issue but at least it would be a start. But as usual the Fai let football in this country down.:(:(:(

Does the league need another Dublin Club ? No

Are there any non-Dublin clubs of the appropriate licensing standard ready and willing to step-up to the senior plate at this extremely short notice ? It doesn't appear so.

Having Spouting Fungus is therefore marginally better than having no replacement for Kilkenny City at all (and the fixture farce that would create). Hence why we are where we are.

drummerboy

19/01/2008, 9:31 PM

I don't think Fingal County Council are allowed under law to fund a football club as regards its daily expenses. What they can do is provide land for a stadium and training facilities. The main backer Gannon, is the guy who bankrolls Malahide United. I think the main area SP are trying to tap into for support is Swords, where there is no league club. Whether they achieve this is another thing.

Just out of interest are Kilkenny going out of football completely or will they compete in the LSL or junior football.

The Man Himself

20/01/2008, 11:35 AM

bohs, rovers, pats, shels, ucd, bray, drogheda, kildare and now sporting fingal!
the all dublin league is not far away.
bloody disgrace replacing kilkenny with another dublin club,
a team from tipp or kerry should have been offered the place.

MariborKev

20/01/2008, 11:42 AM

bloody disgrace replacing kilkenny with another dublin club,a team from tipp or kerry should have been offered the place.

Despite the fact that they didn't meet the IAG requirements?

passerrby

20/01/2008, 11:52 AM

wexfordseagull

20/01/2008, 12:10 PM

it appears that kilkenny will field a team in the u-20 league and rebiuld from there.good luck to them

higgins

20/01/2008, 12:12 PM

I don't think the answer to the lack of balance around the country is to promote teams from outside Dublin to the Eircom League!

If the FAI build up football in towns and cities without a tradition of football then over time we'll see more and more players from those regions with stronger teams who may want to play in the Eircom League.

If some mad men want to start up another Dublin team are are best placed of all teams who want an Eircom League team then whats the big deal ? Do people really look at the map of England when they follow the premiership?? It might be nice to have away trips to places like Kilkenny but if you're going down to sit with 20 Kilkenny fans (all that was there last time I visited) then you're have a Kilkenny team just for the sake of having a Kilkenny team, what makes sense about that?

I understand we only have the FAI's word on SF being the best placed team to go forward but if we trust that the process was a fair one then what complaints can we have?

The problem with a lack balance around the country won't be helped by promoting clubs who are not up to the mark.

sullanefc

20/01/2008, 12:13 PM

No.
Why not include Drogheda then?

I don't think its necessarily a bad thing adding another Dub team but I'd expect them to struggle to establish themselves and recruit a following.

I mean the thing with Seery is why did he start afresh and not build on Home Farms considerable legacy or merely plough his money into Shels, Bohs, Pats or Rovers? Did DCFC put considerable money into the off-pitch infrastructure?

From a person who thinks there are too many clubs around the Dublin area, I don't think Sporting Fingal are a bad thing at all.

I really despised Dublin City. I wanted them to fail and I was glad that they did fail. They had no local area to recruit a following from, they just wanted to recruit from all over. Not only was this greedy, but it was also stepping on the toes of Bohs, Pats, Rovers and Shels.

Sporting Fingal seem different. They have a target area. If they do it properly, they can establish themselves in the community there and be THE local club in Fingal. If it is done properly then they have infinitely more potential than one other Dublin club that I won't name.

Slightly off topic, living in Kildare, I don't get back to Cork every weekend, so last year I took in a few Kildare County games. I thought the crowds were quite poor considering the population of Kildare nowadays.

They have a decent stand with a bar and seem to have a decent set up at Station Road. The worrying thing is that, from what I can see, the promotion of the club around the county is quite poor.

I don't see any marketing or recruitment drives for any new fans. The club seems to be stagnating and I hope it doesn't turn into another Kilkenny. It has great potential, but the club doesn't seem to have the ambition.

Poor Student

20/01/2008, 12:15 PM

it appears that kilkenny will field a team in the u-20 league and rebiuld from there.good luck to them

Yeah, the Irish Mail on Sunday says that they'll enter the U20 league and may join in the A Championship in two or three years.

Sonic

20/01/2008, 12:54 PM

And no one cared enough to set up a club anywhere else

Stop talking drivel there is ample amounts of clubs to choose from over and above Sporting Fingal. Even Mervue United. Two Galway clubs would surely be a better option then a nineth Dublin or whatever it is at this stage weve all lost count!

Sonic

20/01/2008, 12:57 PM

Does the league need another Dublin Club ? No

Are there any non-Dublin clubs of the appropriate licensing standard ready and willing to step-up to the senior plate at this extremely short notice ? It doesn't appear so.

Having Spouting Fungus is therefore marginally better than having no replacement for Kilkenny City at all (and the fixture farce that would create). Hence why we are where we are.

In fairness it aint exactly too hard to obtain a first division licence. Im sure there are quite a few that could obtain one. A field and a team is about as much as is required.

Dodge

20/01/2008, 1:20 PM

Stop talking drivel there is ample amounts of clubs to choose from over and above Sporting Fingal. Even Mervue United. Two Galway clubs would surely be a better option then a nineth Dublin or whatever it is at this stage weve all lost count!

3 clubs applied to join the A league, one from Dublin and 3 from Galway. These are the facts. At if you've lost count of the 6 Dublin sides, then there's very little hope for you...

osarusan

20/01/2008, 1:22 PM

Dodge, your pm box isn't full by any chance is it?

Sonic

20/01/2008, 2:13 PM

3 clubs applied to join the A league, one from Dublin and 3 from Galway. These are the facts. At if you've lost count of the 6 Dublin sides, then there's very little hope for you...

Yeah when I say that Im including Drogheda and Bray as Dublin clubs because lets face it they are basically are. Then why not one of the Galway teams. There are two Cork teams why not two Galway teams!

onceahoop

20/01/2008, 2:24 PM

Thats a bus eirinn bus

Oops!!! It's a double decker so I just assumed it was Dublin Bus. Still, it's a bus from Dublin to Drogheda and there's a train service that's reasonably good (apart from the crush at peak times)

As for Sporting Fingal, I think they should build up their structures first before they move up from the a-league. Otherwise they might as well be standing on quicksand. Frankly they'll be trying to draw from the same pool of support as Dublin City did if they go straight to the 1st Division.

higgins

20/01/2008, 3:17 PM

Yeah when I say that Im including Drogheda and Bray as Dublin clubs because lets face it they are basically are. Then why not one of the Galway teams. There are two Cork teams why not two Galway teams!

Do you even know or care how close Drogheda is to their closest Premier Division neighbour or are you just on some anti Dublin/Drogheda/Bray rant ?

Maybe you can explain why 6 teams from Dublin is too many ?

Sonic

20/01/2008, 3:50 PM

Do you even know or care how close Drogheda is to their closest Premier Division neighbour or are you just on some anti Dublin/Drogheda/Bray rant ?

Maybe you can explain why 6 teams from Dublin is too many ?

Look mate can you honestly apart from the fact you yourself are from Dublin see any positives for the league in having yet another Dublin team involved. Its nothing to do with an anti dublin bray rant its just this is our national league of which half of the premier division alone are all within a stones throw of one another. Get a grip will ya! I just think it would be a good thing thing to give a team from somewhere else a chance like what was done when Wexford Youths joined up!!

pineapple stu

20/01/2008, 3:55 PM

Anyone else enjoying the irony of a Longford fan calling Drogheda a Dublin team?

Terry

20/01/2008, 3:57 PM

having another club from Galway would be disatrous for both of them. Its hard enough for united to manage by themselves.

higgins

20/01/2008, 4:05 PM

Yeah it looks good on the map and I'm much happier to go to Kilkenny for an evening than to another Dublin ground but you do realise a large chuck of the population live and/or work in Dublin ?

Of 22 teams you are going to have 1/3 or so in Dublin.

I want the best prepared teams to make the step up and while I'd like it to be a Kilkenny or a Mayo or a Clare etc there's no point if the football base is not there. You can't get support from an area that has no interest in football. What the FAI need to do is take a 10 or 20 year long term view of counties such as Kilkenny and build strong local leagues before you'll have the kind of support there to sustain a professional team.

Maybe there is too many teams in Dublin. Maybe SF will go the way of Dublin City but I don't think they should be told they can't enter on the basis they are from Dublin and we have some Dublin teams already!

My problem with you saying Drogheda was because they are miles away from any Dublin club. Their supporters are not about to follow Shels or Bohs if they went bust tomorrow. They have an area to get support from thats seperate to ALL other Dublin clubs. Apart from the extra costs for some clubs of coming to Dublin to play games every second week I don't see why it matters in the short term where these clubs are based.

Again, I'd like to point to the fact that if the FAI want football to grow in other regions they need to take a longer term view of what is going on in those areas.

Fingal is an area of Dublin with over 250,000 people and no football club there. I don't think in this case it's stupid of the FAI to allow them into the league but of course nobody is to know if the people of Fingal will get behind their team or not.

As a Shels fan who is going to be in direct competition with SF and who have already lost key members of the club to SF it would be easy for me to knock them too.

GavinZac

20/01/2008, 4:15 PM

you've touched on the problem: shels, bohs rovers and pats, the historical dublin teams, are virtually interchangable in terms of support, especially with clubs hopping from ground to ground and even rovers moving out of Dublin-proper. Strong clubs have strong bases; 2 or even 3 premier division dublin teams would fare better even by creating a strong "us and them" feel to derbies rather than fragmenting things by having those four plus the likes of UCD and Bray and the random st. francis/home farm/dublin city/fingal parade of failed clubs.

KianD

20/01/2008, 4:39 PM

Is there a bus to Newbridge? Pretty sure there's one to Celbridge anyways.

Yes, but its a ****e service. Celbridge is the other end of the county, North and mid/south Kildare don't mix much (theres only 1 bus a day from Maynooth to Naas, for instance - yet about 100 to Dublin).

dcfcsteve

21/01/2008, 12:33 AM

In fairness it aint exactly too hard to obtain a first division licence. Im sure there are quite a few that could obtain one. A field and a team is about as much as is required.

If it was that easy Limerick FC would've stayed in the league....

Bottom line is that there is no stampede to join the senior ranks. Not even a waiting list now, by the looks of it.

We can play Fantasy Football First Division all we like, but the reality is that Spouting Fungus appear to have been the only team ready, willing and able to step-up to the level.

It's a shame Mullingar Athletic appear to have lost momentum/interest since Kildare beat them to St Francis's place in the league back in 2002.