"Cocaine Clubs"

[MojoPin]

"leafy suburbs" and "cocaine clubs" is where people are taking cocaine and other bad drugs and its up to the public to phone the gardai if they know where these places are........



sound like a 10 year old to you????


na minister Carey on the radio

[Block G Raptor]

Cocaine Clubs? what a load of tosh-cocaine is being taken in the bog's of nearly every pub and club in the country-is the minister for real. actually on this point it's very easy for pub/clubs to take measures to prevent cocaine use in toilets. some places have started to rub vaseline on the smooth surfaces in bathrooms to stop snorting. still the junkies will find a way but at least it makes it harder for them

[Macy]

Just say no, NO, just say no.... Carey and Co to recreate Grange Hill. Carey as Mr Bronson, Harney as Rolly, Willie O'Dea as Ziggy, Biffo as Gonch...

[Lionel Ritchie]

Just say no, NO, just say no.... Carey and Co to recreate Grange Hill. Carey as Mr Bronson, Harney as Rolly, Willie O'Dea as Ziggy, Biffo as Gonch...

A great, great record encapsulating the zeitgeist of 1986 ...and now if you'll excuse me I have a glue-bag to finish.

[ramsfan]

just imagine harney running around the country kicking in nthe door of the "COCAINE CLUBS",SHE COULD BELLY FLOP THE DOOR OPEN:)

[Jerry The Saint]

"leafy suburbs"

I remember there was a similar problem surrounding the Annabel's trial - the leafy aspect of certain suburbs was highlighted in every single media report.

The most obvious solution to this problem is to assemble a crack (sic) Government taskforce to eradicate all leafs from society, starting with suburban areas (as this is a far greater problem than leafy cities, leafy provincial towns, or the leafy countryside).

Instead of people posting snide remarks on here, I believe the Minister should be congratulated for the work that has already been undertaken in the War on Trees. I've noticed in recent weeks that there are not nearly as many leafs as there was just a few short months ago. Hopefully this trend continues and leafy suburbs (and by extension, everything that's wrong with society) will soon be a thing of the past.

[Wolfie]

I remember there was a similar problem surrounding the Annabel's trial - the leafy aspect of certain suburbs was highlighted in every single media report.

The most obvious solution to this problem is to assemble a crack (sic) Government taskforce to eradicate all leafs from society, starting with suburban areas (as this is a far greater problem than leafy cities, leafy provincial towns, or the leafy countryside).

Instead of people posting snide remarks on here, I believe the Minister should be congratulated for the work that has already been undertaken in the War on Trees. I've noticed in recent weeks that there are not nearly as many leafs as there was just a few short months ago. Hopefully this trend continues and leafy suburbs (and by extension, everything that's wrong with society) will soon be a thing of the past.

I blame the Nigerians. Its the leafy suburbs and the Nigerians.

[MojoPin]

actually on this point it's very easy for pub/clubs to take measures to prevent cocaine use in toilets. some places have started to rub vaseline on the smooth surfaces in bathrooms to stop snorting. still the junkies will find a way but at least it makes it harder for them

it doesnt make it any harder as most bumps are taken from a key or a coin anyway snorting lines is more of a party thing...


I blame the Nigerians. Its the leafy suburbs and the Nigerians.

when i was listening to the radio i was actually waiting for Mr.Carey to blame the influx of eastern europeans or africians. incompetance is a killer not cocaine....

[pete]

What is a leafy suburb? Not many tree lined suburbs in this country.

[dahamsta]

Just Say No To Fianna Fail boys and girls.

[beautifulrock]

Just Say No To Fianna Fail boys and girls.

Whilst I totally agree that sucessive governments have taken to sticking their collective heads in the sand on this and a number of other of issues I refuse to see how we, as the people of this country, can abdicate resposibility for the increase of use in drugs. Everyone has a choice not to do it, the majority are aware of the dangers of doing so. No one can deny that drug taking is now mainstream, I am not surprised at all by the report that 90% of pubs and clubs have traces of cocaine. I have read all the breast beating and keening following the high profile cases over the last few days. What I have not yet seen is one idea on how this can be controlled. It is time we all got our heads of the sand and quickly,

[John83]

...No one can deny that drug taking is now mainstream...
I always wonder what percentage of the people loudly decrying drug use themselves take or have taken them.

[Noelys Guitar]

I always wonder what percentage of the people loudly decrying drug use themselves take or have taken them.

Good question. Nothing is going to stop cocaine use other than users themselves stopping.

[MojoPin]

nothing will ever stop drug use unless we ban all imports and flights and have a human shied around the country.....

[pineapple stu]

What is a leafy suburb? Not many tree lined suburbs in this country.
You wouldn't notice that up the northside alright.


No one can deny that drug taking is now mainstream, I am not surprised at all by the report that 90% of pubs and clubs have traces of cocaine.
I hate generalisations like this. How do you define "mainstream"? Can you point to the report you mention?

I know my fair share of people and not one has ever taken cocaine (that I know of), or has ever mentioned knowing someone who has taken cocaine. I've never even been offered cocaine (all this applies for any other hard drug, for that matter). Maybe I'm just unlucky; I don't know. Also, if a pub jacks have traces of cocaine, that can mean one person in the past year did coke in there, out of the thousands who visited the pub.

I'm not for a moment saying drugs aren't a problem in Ireland, and judging by the number of scumbags shooting (does that count as a pun?) each other, it's a growing problem, but I hate this notion that drugs are overrunning the country and you can't get away from them, especially when it's based on next to no evidence at all, like your post.

[Dodge]

I know my fair share of people and not one has ever taken cocaine (that I know of), or has ever mentioned knowing someone who has taken cocaine. I've never even been offered cocaine (all this applies for any other hard drug, for that matter)

You'd wanna get out more.

[Angus]

This issue is like the Health service - totally impossible to resolve, given the realpolitik in place.

The government can never say what they really think - i.e. caveat emptor - the state cannot say that because of the need to be seen to be caring and supportive of addicts etc.

Therefore, we will see lots of drug strategies, which have zero chance of succeeding, and the state know they have zero chance of succeeding, but they solve a purpose in order to be seen to be doing something.

Reference the PJ O Rourke book, Parliament of Whores where he asks the US drug czar how to deal with the issue - the strategy was to make a big side show about a related issue and just sit back and do nothing - because the 2war" is unwinnable.

Unfortunately, we, the public, have little appetite for what would really solve the issue - namely, a true caveat amptor strategy, searches on demand from the authorities, random drug testing - now, I know there is a trust issue on these things but if we don't accept thes ethings, we have no interest in sorting this.

[John83]

Unfortunately, we, the public, have little appetite for what would really solve the issue - namely, a true caveat amptor strategy, searches on demand from the authorities, random drug testing - now, I know there is a trust issue on these things but if we don't accept thes ethings, we have no interest in sorting this.
Between this and a previous post on freedom of speech, I'm beginning to think your political leanings are decidedly right of centre Angus! Most unusual here.

[jebus]

Lord God some of the people around here lead me to despair, I mean random searches? FFS we may as well blame it on the Jews and be done with it at that rate.

Anyway the war on drugs is lost, has been lost for at least 40 years, and will continue to be lost until poiliticians realise that and bring about a number of changes, namely legalising and monitoring ALL drugs, supporting drug producing countries other produce (Columbia would like to sell bananas and coffee too you know), and promoting free drug rehabilitation programs. Until that happens lets all pretend to be horrified into action when minor celebrities overdo it a bit :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

You'd wanna get out more.
I and everyone I know so.


Anyway the war on drugs is lost, has been lost for at least 40 years, and will continue to be lost until poiliticians realise that and bring about a number of changes, namely legalising and monitoring ALL drugs, supporting drug producing countries other produce (Columbia would like to sell bananas and coffee too you know), and promoting free drug rehabilitation programs.
That's what happens in Switzerland; anyone got comparison drug rates between the two?

[ramsfan]

feckin british again, the ruination of us 800 years and there still at it, we have blamed everyone else.:D

[John83]

I and everyone I know so.
When have we ever discussed cocaine?

I don't know many people who have admitted to me that they've tried or been offered anything harder than cannabis, but it's not a topic I bring up very often.


That's what happens in Switzerland; anyone got comparison drug rates between the two?
I tried google, and got a 2005 report which began with the line:
"Switzerland, together with England and Spain, has the highest rate of alcohol and drug use among people under twenty in Europe."
Which kind of suggests that their method isn't any better than the alternative.

[pineapple stu]

When have we ever discussed cocaine?

I don't know many people who have admitted to me that they've tried or been offered anything harder than cannabis, but it's not a topic I bring up very often.
Just now for one. ;)

I'm just trying to get some perspective on the issue is all, as opposed to un-backed-up comments that 90% of pubs have cocaine in them or cocaine use is as common as Sunday lunch.

[kingdom hoop]

Everyone has a choice not to do it, the majority are aware of the dangers of doing so.

And the joys too of course. Just like people who eat too much, drink too much, smoke, and, relatedly, people who genuflect at the altar of consumerism; reaching out for more, more, more, untroubled by potential ramifications in the future, and generally unappreciative of a skewed paradigm focused more on earnestly grasping for 'needs' and wants, rather than building on what we have.

I've said it before, and, because I was pretty proud of my philosophical perceptiveness (:p), I'll say it again;



Whatever you appreciate appreciates. So if you continue to over-value alcohol/drugs/money you're slip slidin' away from true happiness.


So I suppose my point is that, for one thing, drugs are just another predictable and unavoidable limb in the type of consumerist society we inhabit, with mis-aligned mindsets that serve to exacerbate drug usage. Secondly, Ireland has a ridiculously alcohol-centric social setting. This is a problem as it creates the perception that alcohol is a safe drug and that there's nothing really wrong with losing control of oneself. It is also a problem as the pub is seen as an adequate substitute for youth clubs, skateboard parks, other indoor sports facilities etc. All in all, a way of living that will inevitably induce too much drug taking.

That is how I'd characterise the issue. Unfortunately, however, it's a way of explaining the problem that doesn't lead to an easy solution. But I think looking at the causes is the only way to progress the issue. Singling out individuals, as Noely does above, as the only way to stop drug taking misses the boat completely in my view. As long as we (Ireland) have the type of values we do then I think it must be accepted that drugs will be inherent and widespread.



Before going any further, it's important to know what people want to see happen, what is the ideal, and what the problems of drug-taking are, as otherwise talking about potential measures seems a bit vague to my mind. Is the gangland problem so big that legalisation is a must? Are drugs plain evil and must be stamped out? The potential health problems are huge so something must be done, etc etc. In my view, drugs should be allowed to some degree (apparently they can be fun, not that we'll get many stories here it would seem:D) but that 'safe' and moderate consumption is critical. I've had enough typing for one post now though. Could do with a line to perk me up a little maybe. :p

[beautifulrock]

You wouldn't notice that up the northside alright.


I hate generalisations like this. How do you define "mainstream"? Can you point to the report you mention?

.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cocaine-traces-in-90pc-of-clubs-and-pubs-1242154.html

there you are Stu, hope that makes you hate a little less :rolleyes: I will not bother defining mainstream think most know what I was referring to.

[superfrank]

I don't know about leafy suburbs and all that. Coke's not as high class as it used to be. I hate "classing" people but all the people I know that have done cocaine have been working class. That's not to say my middle or upper class friends don't do it but the people I know who do are all working class.

In Jim Doyle's and The Tube in Bray, I've seen people doing cocaine, I've seen the stuff on the toilet seats and on people's noses. I don't think these people have ever been thrown out or anything so maybe that's a cause of the problem. No action being taken at the entry.

[pineapple stu]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cocaine-traces-in-90pc-of-clubs-and-pubs-1242154.html

there you are Stu, hope that makes you hate a little less :rolleyes: I will not bother defining mainstream think most know what I was referring to.
Thank you; very interesting. My counter point on that still stands though - doesn't indicate whether it was one person or lots of people doing the drug.

"I will not bother..." translates as "I can't back it up" in internet-speak, unfortunately.

[beautifulrock]

Thank you; very interesting. My counter point on that still stands though - doesn't indicate whether it was one person or lots of people doing the drug.

"I will not bother..." translates as "I can't back it up" in internet-speak, unfortunately.

nope it translates as cant be bothered. You know what I mean as well lets proceed onwards.

[jebus]

It was all over the news today that 92% of club and bar bathrooms tested positive for having traces of cocaine on them, so I doubt it's the work of a small minority working there way through 92% of our establishments. Whether or not there is a majority, i.e. 50.000001%, of the population using illegal substances I don't know, but frankly that line of thought is pedantic and is the type of nonsense that sets this debate back constantly

[pineapple stu]

How does the number of people taking coke set the debate back?! Would have said it's a critical factor in working out what you're dealing with.

[Dodge]

How does the number of people taking coke set the debate back?! Would have said it's a critical factor in working out what you're dealing with.

He's saying that pedantism regarding whether a total of five people used Coke in 92% o pubs surveyed or whether 100,000 used coke in 92% is ridiculous.

A common sense approach would tell you that "enough" people were using Coke to have traces of it on 92% of pub/clubs loos.

That "enough" is open for debate but as its an illegal activity you won't get too many admitting to it in surveys. I know dozens of people who've tried coke, some of whom are regular users.

[jebus]

How does the number of people taking coke set the debate back?! Would have said it's a critical factor in working out what you're dealing with.

Arguing about about what a majority is to prove some generalisation point in the media is setting it back. Yes the media generalise everything, and are prone to throwing out huge figures to scare monger people, we know. Now I suggest you take a trip into town and go to various clubs and bars, go to their bathrooms and see for yourself that there is left over coke in cubicles. 92% may be off, but it's only a bit off so lets move on

[dcfcsteve]

You'd wanna get out more.

I'll second that. It's nigh-on impossible to lead a half-decent social life in a large Europan city these days without teh spectre of cocaine being around.

I have 2 friends who I would describe as 'socially dependent' upon cocaine - i.e. they won't have a night out of any magnitude without coke. I would descrb both as having confidence/insecurity issues though, which goes a large way to explaining it.

I know of countless other peopel who have tried it, but most have the good sense to treat it as something to do extremelty infrequently, or try once and move on once their curiousity is satisfied.

I f there is any phrase in modern political parlance that is more absurd than 'the war on terror' it's the war on drugs. Complete and utter nonesense that achieves nothign other than the presence of armed organised criminal gangs in every town and city of note in the Western world.

[dcfcsteve]

Unfortunately, we, the public, have little appetite for what would really solve the issue - namely, a true caveat amptor strategy, searches on demand from the authorities, random drug testing - now, I know there is a trust issue on these things but if we don't accept thes ethings, we have no interest in sorting this.

How would this in any way provide a solution to drug usage ?

Surely the only intelectually supportable solution is to accept that drugs will exist, to bring them under state control, tax them heavily, use the funds raised to provide support structuresd to wean addicts off of it, and aim top slowly reduce usage throughout society - largely by removing a lot of the 'glam' behind drugs.

Two key supporters for this. Firstly - one of the largest contributors to crime in Western societies (particularly opportunistic and violent theft) is ether drug addiction or drug supply. Why do you think there are so many guns and gangs in Dublin, Limerick etc ? Keeping drugs illegal merely puts armed gangs onto the streets, as the profits are so huge that they want to protect them, and keeps addits in a life of crime to feed their habit. The current policy creates violent crime. This is an undeniable fact.

Secondly, from a health point of view drugs like pure heroin are not medically damaging beyond addiction. The rubbish they sell on the streets however - cut with feck knows what - is what leads to masive health costs in dealing with the medical problems it causes amongst heroin addicts. The sensible answer would therefore be to provide state controlled heroin in a very regimented way to oproven addicts, reducing their supply over time and providing the support required to wean them off the drug. The other alternative is for society to continue suffering the crime sprees they conduct to feed their habit, and face the final ignomony of picking up the health-care tab for them afterwards.

[Macy]

Whilst I totally agree that sucessive governments have taken to sticking their collective heads in the sand on this and a number of other of issues I refuse to see how we, as the people of this country, can abdicate resposibility for the increase of use in drugs.
I expect better from Government than some ancient baldy knob head with only one thing to say - "drugs are bad, mokay". How are people that take drugs ever going to take him seriously?

As there remains no will to truely to deal with the issue through either legalisation or via some other method such as via prescriptions from doctors, the only way forward is through education on the dangers and if you are going to take drugs how to take them safely. Certainly with better understanding on how drugs work you'd have to think the Waterford deaths could've been avoided.

I'm frequently shocked by the ignorance of the effects of drugs, which are addictive which aren't, how risks can be reduced by people around my age in Ireland. Perhaps it was just late 80's, early 90's Manchester but we had quite good drug education in our youth.

In terms of how to deal with it going forward, I shockingly find myself in agreement with both dcfcsteve and Kevin Myers - a (pan european) legalisation and regulation programme is the only way that the "Drug Crisis" is going to be dealt with to reduce deaths.


That's what happens in Switzerland; anyone got comparison drug rates between the two?
A more relevant comparison would surely be the number of drug related deaths?

[endabob1]

I'm a normal 30 something bloke in a normal office job, I don't know any rock stars etc.. I was trying to think of how many of my friends have at least tried coke and I can only think of one couple that I know that haven't.
Personally I won't touch the stuff (I'm scared sh!tless of chemical drugs) but almost everyone I know has had a line or 2, some are bit more heavy handed and a night out isn't a night out without a couple of lines others are the once every 6 months type and some have tried it once or twice but it's not really their thing. It's so cheap these days, it's no longer the preserve of the chattering classes.
I'm not condoning it but like everything in life there are risks involved, if people know the risks and still want to try it then that's their own look out, if people are not educated to the risks they are imho more at risk because they are going into the unknown. People will always be attracted drugs be it alcohol, cocaine or cannabis a little bit of sensible education would help.

[anto1208]

I was impressed with the prime time thing last night but dissapointed with the Q&A afterwards same old lines , Gardi have to be harder with pushers & users.

The harder the cops get the more people will get hurt or die.

Random searches in clubs on on the way into clubs will just lead to the people that snort a gram over a night to snorting the full gram or 2 before they leave home greatly increasing there chances of Over dosing. Or even just making them mental leaving the house. then mixing in the booze as well.

Coming down harder on criminals will just force them to be more extreme. They would rather shoot a mule than have him rat them out , they would rather shoot someone that owes them money that have them rat them out.

Then there is the quality factor if at the momment some guy said he cuts the coke 5 times before sellling it if its twice as hard for him to get he will cut it ten times to make his money, Remember he doesnt care about the punter just his cash.

[Block G Raptor]

You wouldn't notice that up the northside alright.


I hate generalisations like this. How do you define "mainstream"? Can you point to the report you mention?

.

Primetime Investigates last night
92% of pub's and clubs tested at random in all corners of the country had traces of cocaine in their bathrooms

[pete]

Seen some of Primetime last night & wasn't too bad & at least better than the hopeless High Society "documentary" a few weeks back.

People make their decisions & the state can hardly be held accountable when they make bad decisions.

Not sure why the Taoiseach represented at recent funeral related to suspected drug related death.

[jebus]

Not sure why the Taoiseach represented at recent funeral related to suspected drug related death.

Anything to divert attention from his government's mismanagement of the country I guess.

I'm only surprised they didn't push through their pay rises during all of this

[pete]

Anything to divert attention from his government's mismanagement of the country I guess.

I'm only surprised they didn't push through their pay rises during all of this

I don't see they are related. Illegal drugs are not regulated by the state. Everyone knows the risks & as adults they make their own decisions. You can blame the state for crime but ultimately there will always be illegal drugs no matter how many criminals & gangs prosecuted.

[shedite]

I don't think that stat in Primetime last night wasn't very well explained. 92% of pubs found traces of cocaine? How long does traces of cocaine last? If it only lasts a couple of days then it's alarming, but if you can detect usage over the past year then it's pretty expected.

Out of interest, how much is cocaine? Never used it nor intend to, just curious as to what a line costs.

[jebus]

I don't see they are related. Illegal drugs are not regulated by the state. Everyone knows the risks & as adults they make their own decisions. You can blame the state for crime but ultimately there will always be illegal drugs no matter how many criminals & gangs prosecuted.

They're not related, but Bertie Pays Tribute to Fallen Model is a better headline than Bertie is a Lying Sack of Crap any day of the week as far as he is concerned. Personally I think the government has to take flak for not providing adequate funding for people trying to get off illegal and legal substances. I don't blame the government for my own previous drug use, but there would be a curtailing of these gangs providing illegal drugs, they could legalise and regulate it




Out of interest, how much is cocaine? Never used it nor intend to, just curious as to what a line costs.

You can't buy a line, a gram costs anywhere between €50-100 I believe, could be wrong though as I don't use the stuff

[anto1208]

cost depends on type, dealer, amount etc etc from 30 up to about 150 depending on who you know .

Coke is a losers drug , people that take coke do so because it gives them confidence or make them feel great grow a pair of balls. It doesnt make you high or stoned or wired . it makes you loud and annoying and a self obsessed ********.

You might have guessed ive very little time for it :D it offers nothing .

[endabob1]

You'll pay less than £50 for a gram which will get you a (good) few lines depending on how you cut it. Considering you'll pay £3.50+ for a pint in London it's not particularly expensive and is certainly no longer the preserve of the rich.
It's a short term buzz that gives you confidence but as with all drugs if you are using it to fill an emotional hole you'll quickly find out that it controls you rather than vice-versa. I don't so much have an issue with why people choose to use it (as long as they know the pro's & con's) but for me the fact that it will be cut with all sorts of crap, rat poison & washing detergent to name but 2 is what scares me off. You have no idea what you are ingesting into your system and that is where the con's outweigh the pro's in my eyes.

[anto1208]

You have no idea what you are ingesting into your system and that is where the con's outweigh the pro's in my eyes.


What puts me off apart from the usual stuff of it makes you act like an idiot , is that the human body has evolved the nose in such a away that it keeps small particles of dust out of the nasal cavity , then people go snort a highly toxic gram of power up there. And people are surprised it does them no good :rolleyes:

[kingdom hoop]

Everyone knows the risks...

Really? Please, in that case Pete, tell us the risks of mixing cocaine, alcohol and MDMA, or, say, if there's a difference between swallowing and snorting cocaine.

The important point is that people know exactly how drugs work, not just that they are bad full stop. We always have and always will do things that are dangerous. But we rationalise, move away from a worst case scenario and think it probably won't happen to us - otherwise you'd never cross a road, get in a plane, whatever. Probability will catch up eventually but such inevitability can be delayed by taking as many precautions as possible. The Safe Drugs Code needs to be published. Accept that people will cross the road, then give them advice on how to do so as safely as possible.




(PS; Anyone else spot who our newest member is? Gave me a good chuckle anyway. edit; it was, just changed though, Tony Montana!)

[kingdom hoop]

You can't buy a line

You sure? A 12 year old girl just called to my door asking if I'd like to buy a line.

[jebus]

You sure? A 12 year old girl just called to my door asking if I'd like to buy a line.

You live in a sick, drug enduced stupor though, so that's discounted :p

[kingdom hoop]

You live in a sick, drug enduced stupor though, so that's discounted :p

I know, it's, ah, terrible, but there was hardly a need to publicise it to everyone else. Maybe if the dealers stopped sending those sweet little girls to my door... :p



a (pan european) legalisation and regulation programme is the only way that the "Drug Crisis" is going to be dealt with to reduce deaths.


Do you think that could possibly be implemented, at any stage in the future?

The two biggest problems, as I see it, are ganglandia and all that goes with it, and tampered drugs. So if you take that as your frame of reference then legalisation would appear to be the best way forward. Government gets money that was going to drug dealers, and controls the quality and supply of the drugs.

But how would that work? Where would the supply come from? Would governments negotiate with Colombian and Afghan drug barons? Also, the market will still exist, so prices must be maintained at such a level that prohibits lay drug dealers from entering the market and undercutting the government. If it's a pan-European market would the poorer economies' supply be hijacked and sold on for profit in richer countries? Would everyone get a quota of drugs and could I sell my surplus to addicts? Would visiting bands not tour if they couldn't get coke? As you can see, I'm finding it very hard to get my head around the practicalities!

For my first time thinking about legalisation, it seems like a behemoth of a task that might not work out at all as planned. But if we agree that the problems that prohibition undeniably creates are mounting then a panacea is not essential, but a measure to improve things is. Is legalisation or drastic increases in sentences/ kind of a zero tolerance criminalisation better?