View Full Version : Maddy McCann
galwayhoop
07/09/2007, 1:47 PM
this development hasn't surprised me in the slightest tbh.
if, and it still is a very big 'if', she is guilty then the full rigours of the law will be brought to bear, there will be no sympathy due to all of the press manipulation over the last months by the mccanns
hoops1
07/09/2007, 2:22 PM
You can be sure even if she did it she will get off. This I could be framed story has the beginings of a free the Innocent Mc Canns campaign. Huge media manipulation has worked before the Loise Woodward case springs to mind.
KATE McCann was urged to admit killing daughter Madeleine in a sick plea bargain deal offered to her by cops.
They told her in a police station showdown during two stormy days of interrogation: “Do a year for accidental death and your family can go home.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007411050,00.html
Lionel Ritchie
08/09/2007, 7:44 AM
KATE McCann was urged to admit killing daughter Madeleine in a sick plea bargain deal offered to her by cops.
They told her in a police station showdown during two stormy days of interrogation: “Do a year for accidental death and your family can go home.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007411050,00.html
That "police source" tells a great yarn.
That "police source" tells a great yarn.
The Sun reporting an unnamed source as fact. :rolleyes:
The recent development would seem to be the logical conclusive to this media event but its also easy to forget a young girl has probably been killed.
bennocelt
09/09/2007, 8:56 AM
Any reason for thinking it was him rather than her?
no particular reason.:)
just that she always looks totally distraught, etc, and he and his blog and all
bellavistaman
09/09/2007, 2:35 PM
Hope to god it is proven they didnt kill her, she met the pope and peopel raised millions so she can stay over to search it would drive me mental if it came out it was the parents, would be an absolute disgrace.
Hope to god it is proven they didnt kill her, she met the pope and peopel raised millions so she can stay over to search it would drive me mental if it came out it was the parents, would be an absolute disgrace.
Not meaning to start a religious debate but I don't see what difference meeting the Pope makes just the same as their apparently strong religious beliefs don't make a difference.
I think this will run for a long time yet & I wouldn't be surrpised if there was never a conviction.
cheifo
09/09/2007, 11:20 PM
I wonder do the Portugese police feel they are def on the right track or are unsure but felt to try for a confession was their last resort to try and solve this case.
feo123
10/09/2007, 12:58 AM
god knows what the foreign police are like, i was thinking they just want to get it over and done with and want to convict someone, if they found blood in a rental car 5 months after she went missing, how would it be maddy's blood? i wouldnt trust some foreign police at all especially if they told her she could 'do a year for accidental death....'
cheifo
10/09/2007, 1:49 AM
The material from the car and room were analysed in the UK.I wasnt doubting the integrity/ability of the Portugese police(altough some criminologists have)
its just that like everybody I am curious to know at this stage whether they are convinced the McCanns are guilty.
god knows what the foreign police are like, i was thinking they just want to get it over and done with and want to convict someone, if they found blood in a rental car 5 months after she went missing, how would it be maddy's blood? i wouldnt trust some foreign police at all especially if they told her she could 'do a year for accidental death....'
You realise the McCanns are foreigners too?
OneRedArmy
10/09/2007, 7:28 AM
god knows what the foreign police are like, i was thinking they just want to get it over and done with and want to convict someone, if they found blood in a rental car 5 months after she went missing, how would it be maddy's blood? i wouldnt trust some foreign police at all especially if they told her she could 'do a year for accidental death....'Your attitude is straight out of the Sun.
It was 5 weeks, not 5 months, after she went "missing", and hypothetically, it would be her blood as the insinuation is that if the parents are at fault she didn't go missing.
If I could be bothered I'd drag up your posts on the tricolour in the Brandywell.
Foreign indeed.....
dahamsta
10/09/2007, 9:42 AM
god knows what the foreign police are like, i was thinking they just want to get it over and done with and want to convict someone, if they found blood in a rental car 5 months after she went missing, how would it be maddy's blood? i wouldnt trust some foreign police at all especially if they told her she could 'do a year for accidental death....'Pull you head out of the sand and your opinions out of the gutter, or just don't post in Current Affairs with crap like that again. It's completely out of touch with reality, and as someone else suggested, it's the kind of tabloid crap we don't want around here. Educate yourself ffs.
adam
Hope to god it is proven they didnt kill her, people raised millions so she can stay over to search it would drive me mental if it came out it was the parents, would be an absolute disgrace.
I agree and I hope for the same. I actually have no faith in the Portugese police. I doubt they have anywhere near enough evidence to prove that the McCanns have any involvement, otherwise they wouldnt have let them leave Portugal and would have charged them if they had.
As for the supposed blood in the car. Could it not have been the case that Maddy might have cut herself, as 4 year olds tend to do and bled in the car?
osarusan
10/09/2007, 9:51 AM
As for the supposed blood in the car. Could it not have been the case that Maddy might have cut herself, as 4 year olds tend to do and bled in the car?
I think the issue here is that the McCann's rented this car 5 weeks after she was reported missing. (correct me if I am wrong)
Blood in the car could be relatively innocuous in itself (for the reasons you've mentioned above) except for this point, if it is her (Maddy's) blood.
As for the supposed blood in the car. Could it not have been the case that Maddy might have cut herself, as 4 year olds tend to do and bled in the car?
Absolutely. I would imagine they're checking to see if it matches the blood found in the apartment. Are you suggesting they shouldn't investigate blood stains in the car?
Any reason for your lack of faith in the Portuguese police?
galwayhoop
10/09/2007, 9:58 AM
I doubt they have anywhere near enough evidence to prove that the McCanns have any involvement, otherwise they wouldnt have let them leave Portugal and would have charged them if they had.
correct. if they had enough evidence they would CHARGE them. however they obviously feel there is grounds to SUSPECT them. big difference
As for the supposed blood in the car. Could it not have been the case that Maddy might have cut herself, as 4 year olds tend to do and bled in the car?
the car was rented 5 weeks, or so, after Madeline went 'missing' and the blood was found in the boot of the car. add this to the supposed blood found in the apartment.
while your excuse could be a possibility for the blood in the apartment there would be no excuse for the blood in the car, if true.
biscuit
10/09/2007, 12:30 PM
I think the story about the sedation is quite believable.... Given that they would have access to the sedatives because of their professions. It is plausable that the poor little girl fell after waking and they have tried to cover it up. If it is the case, there has to be accomplises, and its also disgusting the way they have courted the media from day one (if its true).But a good point has been made earlier, because fo this media frenzy,people are forgetting that a young girl, with her life ahead of her, may be dead. It fuking horrible...
god knows what the foreign police are like, i was thinking they just want to get it over and done with and want to convict someone, if they found blood in a rental car 5 months after she went missing, how would it be maddy's blood? i wouldnt trust some foreign police at all especially if they told her she could 'do a year for accidental death....'
I agree. Can't trust those English police at all.
:rolleyes:
Did I hear right that the blood found in the car ticked 15/20 boxes in the DNA test? If so I've read that scoring 10/20 is enough to be considered as set evidence in a British court, and that 15/20 means that the test 99.95% proves that the blood is Maddys. Worrying that the McCanns refused to answer the majority of the questions that were put to them by the Portugese police too.
Did I hear right that the blood found in the car ticked 15/20 boxes in the DNA test?
Where did you hear that?
Where did you hear that?
It was in one of the Sunday papers yesterday, either the Times or the Mirror, not sure which, and I ask did I hear right because it could have been from the Mirror, which would mean I probably didn't
It was in one of the Sunday papers yesterday, either the Times or the Mirror, not sure which, and I ask did I hear right because it could have been from the Mirror, which would mean I probably didn't
Why don't you just read it again or rewind the tape that your talking Mirror comes on. If you are sight impaired I acknowledge your ability to post on this forum . :D
Nearly right jebus ;)
From the Guardian (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2165491,00.html)
Revealing the details behind the decision to shift the focus of the investigation onto the McCanns, the source said that in addition to the blood at the holiday flat, DNA evidence had been found in a car rented by the McCanns more than two weeks after Madeleine went missing.
He said that while both samples had matched Madeleine's DNA, since they had degraded over time, this was based on an incomplete picture - only 15 of the available 20 genetic markers usually used for such analysis were found: 'Nineteen out of 20 is what we consider conclusive. In this case, they could extract only 15 - but all of the 15 exactly matched Madeleine's DNA.' He also dismissed as 'simply wrong' recent media reports that blood had been found in the car.
He said the Portuguese police were taking the sample recovered from the flat seriously - in part because of 'contradictions and changes' in the accounts given by the McCanns and their friends of what happened the night Madeleine disappeared.
--
From the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=480956&in_page_id=1770)
Gerry and Kate McCann refused to answer 40 questions when they were quizzed by police about Madeleine's disappearance, Portugese newspapers have claimed.
In the latest of a series of attacks on the couple by local media, sources claim GP Kate, 39, gave evasive answers to crucial issues and her response "left a lot to be desired".
Why don't you just read it again or rewind the tape that your talking Mirror comes on. If you are sight impaired I acknowledge your ability to post on this forum . :D
Good to get some acknowledgement that isn't off the talking Mirror, all that thing is is a glorified yes man, I mean I'm alright looking, but I'm hardly the fairest of them all.
I'll let it know it was half right with it's McCann's info too, thanks Dodge :)
Its hard to know what to believe with so many different unofficial sources.
Apparently for DNA analysis certain items are better than others to identify the member of the family. I heard yesterday that if its a hair sample they need the root to have a specific result.
'Police Match Madeleine DNA To Hire Car'
Updated: 20:26, Monday September 10, 2007
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283359,00.html
Portuguese police say they have found firm DNA evidence that the body of Madeleine McCann was in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she went missing, sources have told Sky News.
Kate McCann leaves PortimaoSky crime correspondent Martin Brunt, speaking from Portimao, said police were "adamant" they had found the most "damning" evidence yet implicating either one or both of the McCanns in their daughter's death
gilberto_eire
11/09/2007, 1:54 AM
'Police Match Madeleine DNA To Hire Car'
Updated: 20:26, Monday September 10, 2007
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283359,00.html
Portuguese police say they have found firm DNA evidence that the body of Madeleine McCann was in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she went missing, sources have told Sky News.
Kate McCann leaves PortimaoSky crime correspondent Martin Brunt, speaking from Portimao, said police were "adamant" they had found the most "damning" evidence yet implicating either one or both of the McCanns in their daughter's death
i find this VERY odd...5 weeks after??. if they are involved i cant see how with the media attention around them, they could have done something with the body at that stage..... if they did also, why was there a need?!.
VERY strange case un-folding rhe past few days!!.
Magicme
11/09/2007, 8:29 AM
Kids are always bleeding. I spent most of my childhood with tissue stuck up my nose due to constant nose bleeds & I fell every few days. Easily some blood could have transferred to any number of items in the McCann's possession. Also could be some of the twins blood.
Maybe am just an old softy but I really dont want to believe that yet another parent could do such a horrid thing to their kid.
galwayhoop
11/09/2007, 9:05 AM
Kids are always bleeding. I spent most of my childhood with tissue stuck up my nose due to constant nose bleeds & I fell every few days. Easily some blood could have transferred to any number of items in the McCann's possession. Also could be some of the twins blood.
Maybe am just an old softy but I really dont want to believe that yet another parent could do such a horrid thing to their kid.
apparently, (and i say apparantely as i am not a bio-chemist) from the DNA found they can not only tell if the child was dead or alive but tell the time of death.
as for your second point, unfortunately at this point in time i am rarely surprised by peoples actions however horific.
the more shocking thing in this whole saga is not that a parent could be involved in the death of their child but the POSSIBILITY that they could brazenly hood-wink the worlds media, and in turn the world, into searching for a child who may have never even have left their apartment alive!
anto1208
11/09/2007, 9:10 AM
Kids are always bleeding. I spent most of my childhood with tissue stuck up my nose due to constant nose bleeds & I fell every few days. Easily some blood could have transferred to any number of items in the McCann's possession. Also could be some of the twins blood.
Maybe am just an old softy but I really dont want to believe that yet another parent could do such a horrid thing to their kid.
Even if they had nothing to do with it , leaving your kids alone in a strange place for a few hours is pretty shoddy parenting im not surprised that the blame is getting focused on them now , and you have to ask why did they refuse to hire Private investigators which was there best shot of finding her. And why did they stay untill the got named as suspects then run .
Something very dodgy about it all anyway ,i still think the social should take the twins off them aswell they are clearly unfit partents .
Risteard
11/09/2007, 10:33 AM
apparently, (and i say apparantely as i am not a bio-chemist) from the DNA found they can not only tell if the child was dead or alive but tell the time of death.
I was under the impression that DNA was identical before and after death.
dahamsta
11/09/2007, 10:49 AM
That statement doesn't make any sense to me either. Sounds like something from the Sun. Usually time of death is calculated by looking at the state of internal organs, and the type of bacteria and/or insects that are currently 'working' on the body. You might be able to get a very, very vague idea of the time the blood left the body via decomposition, but I very much doubt you can tell whether the person was dead or not at the time. I very much doubt DNA comes into it at any level, bar identification.
adam
Magicme
11/09/2007, 10:55 AM
I would have left Portugal too at that stage in the same position. They are aware the twins will probably be taken off them and wanted to get them home so that they can be placed in care of family members or nearby so that family can go see them. The twins are big victims here, they have lost their sister and may lose their parents so I can see why the McCanns want to give them some familiarity in their lives.
Yes it is shoddy parenting that they left the kids sleeping in the room. But think about every holiday you have ever been on and you will see parents relaxing by the pool or bar while the kids run around like mad. Half time parents dont know where their kids are when they are in the supermarket in their own small town with them, all it takes is a few seconds for someone to take a child as the Jamie Bulger case has demonstrated. So pretty much every parent has lapsed once in a while but most are lucky that no harm comes to their child. People make mistakes and errors of judgement all the time.
Risteard
11/09/2007, 11:36 AM
I don't know Magicme. All of your examples involve the kids getting away from the parents, not the other way around.
anto1208
11/09/2007, 11:38 AM
I would have left Portugal too at that stage in the same position. They are aware the twins will probably be taken off them and wanted to get them home so that they can be placed in care of family members or nearby so that family can go see them. The twins are big victims here, they have lost their sister and may lose their parents so I can see why the McCanns want to give them some familiarity in their lives.
Yes it is shoddy parenting that they left the kids sleeping in the room. But think about every holiday you have ever been on and you will see parents relaxing by the pool or bar while the kids run around like mad. Half time parents dont know where their kids are when they are in the supermarket in their own small town with them, all it takes is a few seconds for someone to take a child as the Jamie Bulger case has demonstrated. So pretty much every parent has lapsed once in a while but most are lucky that no harm comes to their child. People make mistakes and errors of judgement all the time.
Hmm i dont think thats what they are thinking, strange that for 4 months they didnt care and went jetting off to meet the pope and off to morocco and co-inidently decided to take the kids interests into consideration and get them home on the same thye they are named suspects !!
Also big difference between loosing a kid for a second while shopping or having them play in the pool while you sunbath ( beside the pool ) and leaving your kids in a hotel while you leave the hotel and go to a pub down the town for a few hours , they report that they went back to check the kids the staff on in the restaurant report they never left the restaurant .
it does happen i was in Turkey on hols and on my way up the stairs to bed at about 2 in the morning i found a 4 year old kid crying in the stair well , it turned out his mum had gone down the town ( 10 drive ) to go on the **** with some bloke she just met leaving him in bed in a strange hotel in a strange country on his own . :eek:
At the start i didnt believe they had done much wrong but as things have come out about that nigth its hard not to blame them .
jebus
11/09/2007, 11:56 AM
Something very dodgy about it all anyway ,i still think the social should take the twins off them aswell they are clearly unfit partents .
Now that they are back in Britain social are apparantly trying to organise an interview with them to determine whether the kids will be put on the 'at risk' list, which could possibly lead to them being taken off of them
Why do the media report "sources" as fact?
I love the Indo - Todays front page says DNA 100% match but if you look on their website they already back tracking.
Irish Independent (http://www.independent.ie/)
Hows about reporting the facts not presenting speculation as facts? :rolleyes:
dahamsta
11/09/2007, 1:27 PM
Ah come on pete, they're busy people, they have better things to do than worry about silly things like "facts" and "details".
endabob1
11/09/2007, 2:11 PM
I read this morning that people donated nearly £1M to the Maddy "fighting fund" and that the McCanns will be applying to use some of the money for their legal bills incurred over the allegations.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2426647.ece
I wonder how the fund was administered and set up in the first place. Had the people who donated envisaged that they might be funding a criminal defence case for someone (rather than the campaign to find the girl) I somehow doubt that money would have been given.
Don't think they'll be allowed to use the Maddy fund to finance their legal team endabob, didn't read into why they wouldn't, but an 'expert' on these matters also said today that they wouldn't legally be able to as it was solely set up as a Search for Maddy fund.
If the parents go down that road, or try to at least it will severely turn public opinion against them I feel
endabob1
11/09/2007, 2:26 PM
I don't think they will either but I think it says a lot about them they are considering using it.......
Hows about reporting the facts not presenting speculation as facts?
Come on Pete, it's part of the IN&M group!
Come on Pete, it's part of the IN&M group!
INvent & Makeup?
I heard a theory today about why the McCanns & their friends were in Portugal for the holiday. I believe it was mentioned in one of the Sunday papers & would be something they would not want public... Would explain the alleged syringes too...
With speculation like that I might get a job with IN&M ;)
Risteard
12/09/2007, 3:11 AM
The portugese prosecutor has applied to a judge for the immediate seizure of a single piece of evidence.
the 12 th man
12/09/2007, 7:04 AM
The portugese prosecutor has applied to a judge for the immediate seizure of a single piece of evidence.
News this morning on the Radio says its a clump of the little girls hair alledgedly found in the boot of the car ?:(
galwayhoop
12/09/2007, 8:49 AM
I was under the impression that DNA was identical before and after death.
That statement doesn't make any sense to me either. Sounds like something from the Sun. Usually time of death is calculated by looking at the state of internal organs, and the type of bacteria and/or insects that are currently 'working' on the body. You might be able to get a very, very vague idea of the time the blood left the body via decomposition, but I very much doubt you can tell whether the person was dead or not at the time. I very much doubt DNA comes into it at any level, bar identification.
The source was on Monday evenings Last Word (iirc), apparently they could tell via the substance found if the child was dead or alive and give a (vague) assumption as to the length of time she was dead from it. From the same substance they could get the DNA. As I said I am no Bio-Chemist and can only go on the word of so-called ‘Experts’.
I was assuming that it was blood that was found but that is seemingly not the only substance it could be.
anto1208
12/09/2007, 9:42 AM
They said that there was a substantial amount of hair found more than what could come from a blanket and some body fluid not blood i guess that would be saliva found in the boot of the car .
The guy on the last word last night said as well that you can tell if a person was dead when the sample was left as when you die your genetic structure changes, But as some one else raised with the media hounding them every second how could they have found time to sneak off get the body and move it with out a single paparatzi on there tail . The flight home was ment to be a secret and look at the amount of press that followed them to the airport .
Something ive allways wondered about DNA evidence they say it can prove who you are to 1 in a billion but with 6.5 billion in the world doesnt that mean that it just narrows it down to 6 or 7 people ? I know you would normally have other evidence to go with it but im sure people have been convicted on just DNA evidence .
Magicme
12/09/2007, 9:51 AM
The missus said it to me on day one - they looked too strong and composed on day one - if my child had gone missing I would have been a quivering wreck - far from being able to handle a worldwide media campaign.
Not defending them or anything but everyone reacts to shock & disaster in different ways. They are used to having to tell people that someone they love is dying/dead and are trained to remove themselves emotionally from situations. This training may have kicked in and then as time wore on & they realised fully it was their little girl & they were emotionally involved, then the cracks began to show.
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